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Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 4:11:53 PM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		Where (A) a submissive manipulates you to the point of being the Dom/Mina they want--controlling--major
 
(B) As a Dom/mina makes you think everything is your fault
 
 
so you acquiesce. Thoughts?

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 4:15:05 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I don't work that way.  They get nothing but me gone.

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 4:17:34 PM   
VampiresLair


Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		That has never worked on me. I do not take well to being manipulated and when one tries, they are quickly dismissed. Not only that but I will let them know in no uncertain terms why they are being dismissed.  My former Kitten tried that shit with me, he tried to make me feel guilty about having others while he was away at school since he hadnt met anyone. That was the first time I had ever denied him play and the last time he ever tried that on me. We split shortly after.

DV


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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 4:18:15 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		My thoughts are that if I wanted everything my way I'd become a Domme and I'd never be with a Dom who made me feel as if everything was my fault. I have enough problems in my life. I don't need that heaped on it. I'd be gone in a heartbeat. I'm much more attracted to men who take responsibility for their lives and expect me to to the same.



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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 4:19:17 PM   
MsFlutter


Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline 		What Lockit said. Been there, done that....and done with that.
 
Now my radar is a bit more sensitive.  Passive ANYthing makes me a little crazy.  

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 4:22:48 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		My former slave loved to play that game---that he was a better dominant, he treated HIS slaves like x, y, z.  Silly me, telling him to find someone else if I was not the one he wanted!  I have a very secure sense of myself.

I am a person who will work hard to avoid conflict, but I will not compromise myself to do it.

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 4:31:18 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Where (A) a submissive manipulates you to the point of being the Dom/Mina they want--controlling--major

 
Interesting question.  I was just discussing this point over the last few days with someone.  Personally, I have found in all aspects of my life for women to be more manipulative than men, at least in vanilla life.  I've been pleased to find that it does not occur as much in D/s, perhaps because of the insistence of many dominants on always knowing what the submissive is thinking and on becoming fairly good readers of people.  That doesn't mean it does not happen...
I have a submissive friend who suffers from D.I.D..  Every single one of her personalities can be quite manipulative and, despite years of learning about the various ways manipulation can appear...in patients and in normal people...there were times when she fooled me completely.  Part of it is being believable and part of it is due to her sickness...you tend to concentrate on that aspect and overlook a lot.  Funny how that works...the same stuff I would no more let a submissive or a family member or a "healthy" friend or even a "sick" patient pull, I let her pull.  I wonder...as noted...if it was because of her mental illness that I subconsciously pulled back from confrontation with her and when I did engage, she always won.   I don't like being manipulated and will put a stop to it, either through behavior modification or by being gone.

 
quote:

(B) As a Dom/mina makes you think everything is your fault
 
I've had this happen too...especially in the "getting to know you" stage, when things are not so clear in terms of either a dynamic or a relationship.  More often than not...though not always, usually to my regret and chagrin later...I step back and look at what I am being held to fault for.  I've been held to fault for pointing out something that others had pointed out...I've been held to fault for expecting a submissive to speak in a civil manner...I've been held to fault for getting angry when the submissive herself was angry (dominants are not people, you know?  We are not supposed to get angry when we feel we are being treated unfairly), I've been held to fault for not taking on the majority of the communication, etc..
In some cases, the person calling me to fault has been right.  In most cases, they've been wrong.  And in no case where I've been held to fault for everything have they been right...it takes two to make things work and tis rare...RARE...for everything to be one person's fault. 
 
quote:

so you acquiesce. Thoughts?


I don't acquiesce.  While I do not mind admitting my faults and making an apology for something I have done that I agree has been wrong, I have no intention of letting someone else be the dominant one...no matter how they see themselves...in my dynamic/relationship.  If you want to run things, then go and be a dominant to someone...but it won't be me.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 1/6/2009 4:35:17 PM >

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 4:33:49 PM   
Maxwell67


Posts: 435
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Where (A) a submissive manipulates you to the point of being the Dom/Mina they want--controlling--major
 
(B) As a Dom/mina makes you think everything is your fault
 
 
so you acquiesce. Thoughts?


It has not happened to me.  I suppose it is possible that I could be manipulated, but it is not likely.  I am the manipulator in the relationship and I am blatantly transparent about it, so there are never any feelings of betrayal, but having such a level of experience I can generally see through the motives of others quickly enough to protect myself form their machinations.

I have found that as a Dom, taking responsibility makes the  'B' portion of your question moot... or rather it renders it powerless.  I generally accept responsibility for everything anyway, as that is one of my favorite control tactics.  I am not much for handing out punishments, so if something goes wrong I will assume the responsibility and then make corrections to the system as I see fit to keep it from happening again. 


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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 6:10:24 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well aren't you already supposed to be the dom they want when they accept you as a relationship?  I mean what if they ask you to stop smoking?  Or to stop wearing ratty clothes?  Or to stop worrying? Many slaves are supposed to provide service and enrich their masters lives- they'd be pretty pathetic if they kept allowing you to do crappy things without at least mentioning them.

The issue with manipulation is not manipulation- but whether it's open and everyone is happy with it.

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 6:12:35 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I can't manipulate him. He sees through it. I think I'm being all cute and stuff and he just laughs. Sometimes he does what I want, usually he'll do what I need, and sometimes he doesn't either because he just doesn't feel like indulging me or because he thinks I'm wrong.

But if my needs were consistently not being met, despite me asking straight out, then we just wouldn't be compatible. Shouldn't these things have been found out prior to establishing the relationship? Does the sub have the right to ask for what he wants? Is he ever given what he wants?

I know there are dominants who think the only way to be twue is to refuse to ever give a sub what they ask for, furthermore to only do things the sub doesn't enjoy. I don't understand that, and I don't believe that making their sub unhappy is conducive to establishing a long lasting relationship.

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 6:14:25 PM   
Maxwell67


Posts: 435
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well aren't you already supposed to be the dom they want when they accept you as a relationship? 

That is what I thought also, hehe.


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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 7:50:45 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I had a passive aggressive sub for about 5 minutes.  Yep, not for me.

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/6/2009 7:57:36 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Many slaves are supposed to provide service and enrich their masters lives- they'd be pretty pathetic if they kept allowing you to do crappy things without at least mentioning them.


Manipulation and requesting are very different. Passive aggressive manipulation is trying to get you to stop doing the things they dont like, or doing the things they do, without actually bringing them up and mentioning them. It isnt for the betterment of the dom/me, its for the selfish enjoment of the sub/slave.

Fox suggests things for me often. Fox would never maneuver me into doing what he wants and expect it to work.

DV 

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VampiresLair

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/7/2009 12:59:07 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		I don't see A and B as passive Dominance, just as shitty relations

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/7/2009 1:56:13 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
Where (A) a submissive manipulates you to the point of being the Dom/Mina they want--controlling--major
Neither is acceptable to me.   I'm fairly considerate of the wants of anyone in my life, as long as those wants don't bother me in any major way, and will take notice of something he mentions for possible future use.   
I am entirely unwilling to be nagged/coerced/suggested into doing something I don't want to or feel like doing.    My first experience with a slave, was with one a bit bratty like that, and I let him go because I felt I was being pressured (controlled) into being hard core kinkster.    Mind you, I now do all those things, but I learned in my own time, and learned with one who would talk about things with me, and leave it at that.    

quote:

(B) As a Dom/mina makes you think everything is your fault 
  so you acquiesce. Thoughts?
That is even more annoying than the control freak!    I don't deal with anyone with whom I'm so incompatible, we're constantly looking at who's doing what wrong?    Even when in a relationship, and I'm wrong, I don't enjoy having anyone who needs to harp on that once I've taken responsibility.    If a man wants to beat on my ego indirectly, he will not last long at all in my life.    When in a relationship with a submissive, I let them know that while it may be my fault, he will be the one who gets spanked/punished, since it certainly can't be moi.    M

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/7/2009 4:36:28 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		Its easy to say one will dismiss them but what if your in a loving relationship?
I have been at both ends of sub manipulation and the sub side manipulation from me came when I was in a live in, loving relationship and he just decided to stop dominating me in any way or form. I tried all sorts of subtle manipulation before giving up and just staying in a vanilla relationship with him for a further four years.

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/7/2009 5:33:49 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Its easy to say one will dismiss them but what if your in a loving relationship?

What was described in the OP is not a loving relationship.


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RE: Passive Domination - 1/7/2009 5:39:35 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Where (A) a submissive manipulates you to the point of being the Dom/Mina they want--controlling--major
 
(B) As a Dom/mina makes you think everything is your fault
 
 
so you acquiesce. Thoughts?


Cat,

For myself, it simply will not happen as any sub that would want to be mine knows well her expected roll.

CP

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/7/2009 6:35:18 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Its easy to say one will dismiss them but what if your in a loving relationship?
I have been at both ends of sub manipulation and the sub side manipulation from me came when I was in a live in, loving relationship and he just decided to stop dominating me in any way or form. I tried all sorts of subtle manipulation before giving up and just staying in a vanilla relationship with him for a further four years.
As has already been pointed out, what is described above is not a loving relationship; it sounds like the type of relationship that chips at your soul, and leaves you feeling unlovable, and unloved over time... For myself, that time would be fairly short.
The reason this one is fairly simple, is because I would feel his behavior is not coming from a loving place, and is undermining my authority, and those feelings make me cold. M

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RE: Passive Domination - 1/7/2009 6:59:04 AM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline 		Manipulation is one thing, influencing is another.

I like being influenced; when the ideas are good!

My main concern in general is, Is this good for me? or, Am I happy?

It's not hard for me to figure that out. (Though it may take a little while for the answer to become clear.)

(I'm concerned whether my partner is happy, too, but that's a question they must answer for themselves.)

The point is, Like Maxwell67 says, I make it my responsibility to take care of my relationships and do something about it if I am not happy.

Therefor, I do not feel manipulated - or at least not for very long.

I think I would spot that dynamic early on and the relationship would probably never really get launched, most likely.

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