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Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 4:15:01 AM

Aneirin

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From: Tamaris
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Spurred on by poor Ravenslaveheart's plight the question of, ''mental illness ''. We live in a society of labels, everyone has a label and there are people who seek to label, categorise people into labels, nowhere more so than BDSM it seems. We have Slave, Submissive, Switch and Dominant then further subsets of that, more labels, that we believe are there to define a person in the kinky community.

Now with the mental illness game, that is all about labels, people seek to label and seek labels to perhaps put a definition on themselves for a time, be it life or any variable in between for a variety of reasons. The practitioners who are there to listen and hopefully help are interested in labels, if they can make a label fit, it makes their job easier, but we all know from our young age, a round peg might fit into a square hole and a square peg will fit into a round hole, depending on the sizes of pegs and holes, even then if of the same size each will fit into each if the corners are ignored or in the case of a square peg, the corners are cut off. Like life and people there are no perfect definitions of anything.

So, back to BDSM and labels, given the analogy of a simple intelligence test of shaped pegs and their respective holes, can this be likened to kink and it's fascination with labels ?

Would it be a step in the right direction to change the rigidly set labels that define our orientation in kink to something else other than the four main titles ?

Perhaps keep the titles as an overall guide, but add ' prefers to be ' before the label, so it does not make things so rigid, it would be a better guide for a prospective partner and free those partners to move within their kink. So a dominant perhaps can say prefers to be dominant, but can scratch an itch now and again without fear of having to feel they are not complying with their label and if they are not careful, they could be labelled something else.

Any ideas anyone ?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

Post #: 1

RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 4:44:37 AM

mc1234

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When talking with a dominant, I don't assume right off the bat what he is like. I know he wants to be in charge. The beauty is in the details that we discuss as we get to know one another. Anyone who thinks 'ah, he's a dom and a sadist and a daddy (for instance); now I fully understand him.' are missing out on an awful lot, and quite possibly entering into a relationship with someone they may not be compatible with. Labels are a starting-point, not an end.

< Message edited by mc1234 -- 1/7/2009 4:45:10 AM >

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 4:46:41 AM

RCdc

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Many people like labels because they feel isolated or fearful. If something they are or have or show different to what is defined as'normal' it's more reassuring for the majority of people to be able to stick a label on that difference so that it includes them with others or to reassure that they aren't mad in the sense that what they are experiencing is also recognised and not just being stupid. If you can label something, you can try and understand it. If you can't, then you need to turn to faith (not in a religious context) that it's real. Labelling something makes it 'real' and tangible. For some people that also means a form of acceptance.

I believe that it would be easier if people could just be brave and say 'I don't know' if they really don't know. If you think your not complying to a label, it probably means you don't really understand the label in the first place. In your example, some dominants sometimes bottom and not all are sadists. It's more a case of using a collection of labels to help define yourself than sticking to a single word. Orientations are not related to sex, actions or beliefs.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 4:50:53 AM

colouredin

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I dunno so many times things have gone tits up once a label is applied 'you have to do this you are a sub' ' you arent a real true sub'. Indeed my last relationship I was told I wasnt a proper sub and actually wanted domestic violence (and he wonders why we broke up) its so so so annoying.

All people are complex and complicated, even the basic labels like man and woman or young and old can be totally misleading.

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:02:17 AM

RCdc

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Hey colouredinone
Now see, I don't get why the label of male or female is so complicated. Male and female have definitions that are rigid. So if someone comes along and decides that they are female, and go through the long and sometimes soul destroying process of altering their sex, they are female, yet, they aren't physically so and every transexual I have had personal face to face relationships with are happy to be open that they are non genetic females, or maletofemale or tg. Just to make it clear, these are the 'labels' they have placed on themselves to me. It makes it all pretty clear to me and helps me understand where they are at. It's only complicated when people make it complicated.

Saying that, my dad is 71. I took him to the doctors for his yearly yesterday and after the usual conversation, he was told he wasn't considered old. This really made my dads day, but confused him as well. He asked the Dr how that could be, and was told that 'old' was 78 and over.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:04:27 AM

colouredin

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Heya the.darkness, how you and Darcy had a lovely holiday season and hope you arent blue cold at the moment.

Its the assumptions about what it means to be a man or a woman that is complicated I think, 'women are sensitve and caring and yadda yadda' all that rubbish. People say to me all the time that im not very ladylike and people often say oh you are only young so you dont know. Thats more what i meant. There is 'sex' and then there is 'gender' and they are differant things.

< Message edited by colouredin -- 1/7/2009 5:05:20 AM >

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:10:14 AM

RCdc

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[Yeah it rocked and yeah, I am blue! Bfrrrrrr..... How was yours? Yanno it's impossible to write you here without the profile up woman!
I hear you on the sex/gender thing. Although I see that more as stereotypes and just pointless generalisations, like 'all subs have free will and slaves don't. Thats one of those bullshit stereotypes too. End of the day, that doesn;t have much to do with the label itself. Just ignorance.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:13:35 AM

colouredin

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lol sorry im sure ill put it up again, yeah mine was wonderfully lovely and im really loving all the whiteness even if it means im dressed like an eskimo.

Yeah it is the stereotype but i think they get wrapped up in the labels which is probably my biggest issue with the labels themselves. If the labels meant one clear cut simple thing and there was nothing attached no assumptions well then I would have no problem with them but thats totally not how it works and that probably why Im a card carrying member of the anti-label brigade

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I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

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Post #: 8

RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:14:55 AM

Aneirin

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quote:

Yeah it rocked and yeah, I am blue! Bfrrrrrr.

You tried that tea yet ?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 9

RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:22:58 AM

RCdc

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Is is colder up with you than it is over near me? We had more snow this morning though, but only a dusting.

I was a antilabel person, but just the past few months I have been contemplating what the issue is I have with them. After RS's rant post the other week which I read I believe that I don;t have an issue with labels but with the stereotypes that people place on them and the unrealistic expectations people place on a single word. I put it down to laziness. Modern life makes things easier and more 'get it when you want it'. So people get lazy and take a noun, know it's rough meaning and can't be bothered with all the verbs and adjectives that you can mix it with. Plus as usual, people mix orientation with personality or an action.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:25:52 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

Yeah it rocked and yeah, I am blue! Bfrrrrrr.

You tried that tea yet ?

Yes!
My tongue went all buzzy and I went
I think it was my allergy. But I talked like I had a plum in my mouth for a bit. I thought it safer to just not finish it.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 11

RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:27:43 AM

colouredin

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I dunno we have had a fair bit of snow and all the roofs are all white, but im pretty rural.

Im totally with you, it isnt the words themselves at all its everything thats with it. I think we need the definition its what human beings do they catagorise by whatever means available, thats cool i dont mind that we would struggle without it I think. But the problem is people dont seem to allow subjection or personal interpretation of labels.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 12

RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:31:50 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

quote:

Is is colder up with you than it is over near me? We had more snow this morning though, but only a dusting

It is cold, the lake which is brackish water, a mix of salt and fresh is frozen, not enough to walk on, (you guessed it

) but I took some good photos of it yesterday. Here is according to the weather map, the warmest place in the country at the moment, but it is still fffffffff cold.

Just seen Padstow inner harbour was frozen, thick enough for a work boat to make a few attempts to break it up.

As to the labels thing, part of how I list myself here to me generally, to me means I am everything as I do not think any one label I could choose and I do not wish to limit myself because of a label. Something to do with ''don't get a name for yourself, as excrement sticks'' and the fact that if a person keeps redefining what their orientation is, people will become confused about them.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 1/7/2009 5:39:56 AM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 13

RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:35:58 AM

chamberqueen

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Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
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When I was a Domme I was approached by many Doms that told me that they had a very small submissive part of them that they liked to explore a few times a year. I never saw them as less dominant; I saw them as being in touch with their needs and preferring not to switch with their own partner. That way it blurred no lines. I found it to be refreshingly honest.

I saw an interesting thread once where people were asked to give themselves their own title. I chose caretaker; I see what needs to be done and simply take care of it.

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:45:36 AM

nafakcha

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From: Melbourne, FL
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There are labels that are used as a means to fairly quickly identify a person's tendencies or inclinations. However, just because we use the label for simplicity doesn't mean we agree on the definitions of those labels and are not much more complicated individuals then label suggests.

The problem is with the stereotypes and general assumptions that "go with" the labels. When it comes to the lifestyle if people really understood what it was about I think they would be astonished to see how wrong (generally) the stereotypes and assumptions that have been made about the lifestyle are.

Keiko

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:53:36 AM

JustDarkness

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It is not the labels who are wrong...but people who don't know that labels are just a tool..and not a person.

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 5:56:51 AM

colouredin

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Ohh I do like that JD

_____________________________

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I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 6:20:32 AM

MsFlutter

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Its been my experience that labels CAN imply helpful connotations that are useful to me in assimilating my surroundings. Those connotations make me aware of and sensitive to expectations for interaction with others.

I'm not suggesting this is infallible but its keeps me out of trouble most of the time. After having been raised by an explosive professional victim that turned EVERYthing into drama and required very little provocation to bring down the roof, I'm always more comfortable when I have at least a reasonable idea of how best to avoid the jagged edges.

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 6:23:05 AM

mc1234

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

It is not the labels who are wrong...but people who don't know that labels are just a tool..and not a person.

Good one! I like the way you put that.

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RE: Square pegs and round holes ? - 1/7/2009 6:51:25 AM

DarkSteven

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I like labels. They save a tremendous amount of time early on.

I'm a Dom man. I'm looking for a woman, sub or switch, bi or straight.

No guarantee we'll be a match, but that focuses the criteria more. Once I get past the initial stuff, we'll chat and find out more.

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"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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