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Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 5:00:17 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		What does that mean to you?
 
Does it exist? Can it exist?
 
How far can you realisitically take it?
 
Does it reflect dominating or domineering?
 
Does asking for it disregard a submissive/slaves wants, needs, desires, hard limits?
 
Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?
 
 
 
 
 
 

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"
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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 5:04:45 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Yes it can exist.  Yes it can be healthy and realistic, but then, you have to have to define it and be realistic yourself.
 
the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 5:22:33 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

What does that mean to you?
 
Does it exist? Can it exist?
 
How far can you realisitically take it?
 
Does it reflect dominating or domineering?
 
Does asking for it disregard a submissive/slaves wants, needs, desires, hard limits?
 
Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?
 
 
 
 
 
 


Cat,

it means just that; however the wise dominant is very cautious that demands are reasonable and doable.

CP

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 5:37:30 AM   
chezzy71


Posts: 412
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		i would never think total obedience would have a different meaning.i do believe that is when the but Mistress is spoken and that is not a good thing at all.devotion to One is on all levels.if one cannot accept that,then time to choose a differnet path in life.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 5:52:20 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		it depends on what you ask your sub/slave.
Don't ask her to swallow knifes or jump from a flat.
Without such..total obedience is possible.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 5:55:18 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		It means the dominant had better have godlike powers because demanding total obedience, which to me implies no questions asked, means he is going to have a major fuck up at some point which could have been avoided had the sub been allowed input. A second person is likely to think about aspects which the first overlooked, giving a better chance of not making mistakes.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 5:58:49 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?

Total obedience can't exist without self-reliance and independence.  Where there is no will to act, no power to choose, how can there be obedience at all?


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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 6:20:15 AM   
GabrielleSlave


Posts: 616
Joined: 9/20/2007
From: in servitude
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Total obedience can't exist without self-reliance and independence.  Where there is no will to act, no power to choose, how can there be obedience at all?



Totally agree.  i have, by my own free independant will, decided to obey my Sir to the best of my ability and surrounding circumstances.  My self-reliance is important and He expects it, as without it i would be unable to function when He is not here and therefore be no good to my ums.  To be the slave that He needs therefore, would be impossible without these two things, yet i always obey Him.

Total obedience would be impossible with someone who disregarded my feelings, emotions and needs however.  i need to be able to respect whoever i have given myself to and if i felt it necessary, that person would be able in exceptional circumstances to listen to a reasoned argument even if it was the total opposite of what they had in mind.  Total, mindless obedience is IMHO not possible, as none of us live in a vacuum.  The only exception to that i feel is in play.  Sir expects me to be responsible for my life and that of my ums at all times; in that way i am being obedient, even when i put them before His needs.

Hope my rambling makes sense?

gabrielle x 

edited for terrible spelling!

< Message edited by GabrielleSlave -- 1/7/2009 6:31:44 AM >

_____________________________

Slave to Master Slayer

~ Host of the Rather Marvelous Greenwich Munch ~

"There is no such thing as liberty. You only change one sort of domination for another. All we can do is to choose our master."
D. H. Lawrence

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 6:33:31 AM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
What does that mean to you?
Does it exist? Can it exist?


To me it means obeying him to the best of my abilities, within the context of the other responsibilities in my life.  He understands I have other people that need caring for; a job; chores, etc.  He is smart enough to take those things into consideration when guiding our relationship.  He bends if need be - with an explanation from me, of course. 

quote:

How far can you realisitically take it?


I've spoken with doms who wanted to take it very far ... I realized that this is not something I can do with the other responsibilities I have.  Hence, I'm not with them. 

quote:

Does it reflect dominating or domineering?


Definitely domineering when he was rigid and inflexible - to the point where I was afraid to communicate a conflict, which is rather missing the point .  Dominating when the relationship is in balance. 

quote:

Does asking for it disregard a submissive/slaves wants, needs, desires, hard limits?


It can, yes, at times.  Disregarding my hard limits is a no-no for me and hasn't been an issue with anyone.  Disregarding my needs/wants/desires - definitely has happened, but not regularly.  Disregard, actually, is a misnomer here.  He thought of them, took them into consideration, but wanted something else done at the time.  Which floats my boat on some level. 

quote:

Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?


Absolutely.  If he can understand my having a conflict with a command, and working through it in a way I thought he would approve of, then he wishes me to be self-reliant and independent.  

_____________________________

** Owned by E **

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 6:46:48 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

What does that mean to you?

It means obeying him in all things, in all ways, however it is required.

quote:


Does it exist? Can it exist?

Absolutely.  It did for me, in my past relationship.

quote:


How far can you realisitically take it?

In my case, it was taken up to the point where I was no longer capable of achieving what was required of me.

quote:


Does it reflect dominating or domineering?

There is no way to answer that without knowing a specific.  It can be either or both, depending on the dominant and his/her approach, and on the situation.  In my case it was mostly dominating with a touch of domineering.

quote:


Does asking for it disregard a submissive/slaves wants, needs, desires, hard limits?

It wasn't "asked" for, it was expected.  It was then up to me to decide if I wanted to embark on the relationship, with its expectations laid out as they were.  I chose to do so.  I also chose to get to know him well enough first that I did not have a need to set limits to him; I trusted him to set limits for both of us, and he did so based on his own sense of ethics and on his knowledge of me and how things would affect me.  My wants, needs and desires were not disregarded in that I always had the opportunity to express them.  It was simply up to him as to whether or not (or when) he would meet them.
quote:


Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?

Yes, and in my case, self reliant and independent were expected of me.  I believe it can reside with or without, however.  When I met him I wasn't so independent.  Through my slavery to him I grew into that.
 
 
 
A side note to address Des' post.  I don't think "total obedience" implies having no input at all.  For me, being obedient meant speaking up when I had concerns.  It meant being completely transparent to him, so if I didn't speak up, I would be disobeying.  Speaking up, however, does not mean my word will automatically circumvent his.  It meant he now had the information I did, and could base his decisions on his new information.  He still had complete authority, and I would still do what was required, after the communication.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 6:47:22 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline 		It seems you are experiencing a bit of turbulence in your new relationship.
It's going to be up to you two (or more) to decide your comfort zone. My desire is total obedience, but my goal is gracious service, and respectful communication. If a gentleman I were with had a good explanation, or legitimate reason for not doing as I asked, I would expect him to approach me with that; if did not have a good reason, and I had not asked for something he expressed to be revolting or morally objectionable, than he'd better obey.

Yes I have dated a cutie who was uncomfortable with how much submitting he could do; we're not dating anymore, and he's still trying to figure it out. M

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 6:55:35 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Yes it can exist.  Yes it can be healthy and realistic, but then, you have to have to define it and be realistic yourself.
 
the.dark.

 
If you have to "define it and be realistic" then it isn't total. 
 
Total obedience doesn't exist, hell even christians don't believe their god has total control and that we still have free will.  Total obedience means that someone doesn't have to "be realistic" it means they can do whatever they want, the sum TOTAL of their desires no matter how unrealistic they may be.  Shy of that, it may be amazing, it might be awe inspiring, but it sure as hell isn't total.

(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 6:58:53 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		He expects complete (or total) obedience from me and Alandra.  It is pretty realistic for us because all three of us are grounded in what is realistic for our lives.  She and I have a lot of expectations from him that we have to meet.  He knows that at times those expectations might conflict with each other. 

At those times, we are expected to bring what we perceive as a conflict to him and then he decides which action to take.  If he is unreachable, then we are expected to make the decision to the best of our ability.  If we make a decision that he did not like, it will be discussed so that we can better understand what he prefers. 

Whether expecting complete obedience is being dominant or being domineering really depends on the person who has that expectation.  You really can't make a blanket statement one way or the other.  Whether it disregards a submissives wants/desires/needs or boundaries again depends on the person and depends on the situation. 

There are times in our relationship where my wants/desires/needs are disregarded for what he wants.  These are moments in time that on a whole do not have any significant impact on my well-being.  There is nothing wrong with this happening in our relationship; it is what I agreed to.  The problem would arise if the balance was tipped the other way, where my wants/desires/needs were disregarded so often that it did have a significant impact on my well-being.  The 'tipping point' is not cut and dried and varies from person to person.

I don't think anyone who knows me, would see me as anything other than self-reliant and independent, yet here I am happy and fulfilled letting someone else have authority over the self-reliance and independence.  It can co-exist for me quite well.  It may not be able to co-exist for everyone.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 8:03:30 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I don't know the answer to your question or any question or concept that begins with terms like "total" or "complete" or "real" or "true".

In terms of obedience, either one is or one is not. I don't see the need to add on extra terms that suggest there are levels. If it is obedient in the eyes of the dom or owner what else matters?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 8:12:56 AM   
MRandme


Posts: 661
Joined: 9/24/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

What does that mean to you? It means that i obey His commands, even the ones that i may not wish to. If He gives me a command that i am unable to obey for whatever reason i am to tell Him so and He will decide from there.
 
Does it exist? Can it exist?It can exist if the Master in question is reasonably concerned about the health and well-being of His slave. i know that i can obey my Master without hesitation because He will not order me to do anything that will have a negative impact on myself or my family.
 
How far can you realisitically take it? As far as He wishes to take it. See last question. *smile*
 
Does it reflect dominating or domineering? If i had to pick one, i'd say Domination... but i think it has more to do with trust and training.
 
Does asking for it disregard a submissive/slaves wants, needs, desires, hard limits?No. Because a responsible Master takes care of the slave's needs, and knows how far to push before it comes to harm. A girl may not get what she wants and desires, in fact, the opposite may be true. But her needs are met to the best of the Master's ability.
 
Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?In my case it must. i am not with Him 24/7. i am expected to be both those things on a daily basis, so i am being obedient by doing so. i am to never neglect my family, by His orders (i wouldn't anyway) and to attend to things without His direct supervison. He does not want a girl who cannot do things on her own initiative and be capable.
 
 
 
 
 
 


_____________________________

And thus i conclude with a wish you go well,
Sweet be your dreams, may your happiness swell,
I'll leave you here, for my journey begins
i've gone to be with Him again...

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 8:31:07 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Yes it can exist.  Yes it can be healthy and realistic, but then, you have to have to define it and be realistic yourself.

the.dark.


I agree with this. Within defined bounds, taking into account the hard limits and remaining within the laws of the land (where feasible). I expect my will to be done in a manner which is approved by me and to the standards I require. I also expect and demand that a slave uses his or her common sense and does not place my property (including the slave) or others in danger.  So yes total obedience can exist.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 9:11:08 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

It seems you are experiencing a bit of turbulence in your new relationship.



Thanks, but this is not from My relationship, I have a great one a very obedient submissive--this comes from what I see others promising, demanding or having troubles with.
 
(but thanks for your advice and concern--I have always admired You!)

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 9:22:55 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		my Master expects and demands total obedience. has done so from day one of taking ownership of me. imo total obedience is part and parcel of being a slave, and not at all outlandish or unrealistic. can it reside side by side with self-reliance and independence? theoretically, i suppose it could. but in this household? absolutely not.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 9:45:12 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

my Master expects and demands total obedience.


We do that..yes. But in the end..obiediance is something you give, not? IF you don't give it..he can demand it like crazy..he won't get it ;)

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 9:54:02 AM   
VampiresLair


Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

What does that mean to you? Does it exist? Can it exist?
I dont believe obedience has gradients. It either is, or it isnt. I feel like Yoda "Do or do not, there is no try"
You either obey or you do not, there isnt a gradient of total or not.
quote:


How far can you realisitically take it?

I expect Fox to obey. He will do so assuming I am not asking for something dangerous, stupid, illegal or otherwise damaging. I do not expect him to obey if I lose my senses and start asking for things he knows by a higher power than me he should not do.

quote:


Does it reflect dominating or domineering?

It reflects dominating in the sense that Fox is willingly submitting to my commands. And by willfully submitting to them, he obeys what I command.

quote:


Does asking for it disregard a submissive/slaves wants, needs, desires, hard limits?

If you are a good dominant, you will take these into consideration when you make your requests or demands. He obeys what I command, but it is becasue he trusts me not to be ridiculous in those demands.  I do not hve to cater to his lieks and desires, but I cannot completely disregard them either or he will cease to respect me. If he does not enjoy our interaction, he will not be part of it, in which case no matter how much I demand obedience, he will not care to profvide it.

quote:


Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?

It can if the dominant sking for obedience makes requests that do not go against these traits. Fox obeys when I command, but he also has the ability to be self reliant. Obedience does not mean dependance. It means when I ask for something it will be done. I do not ask for things constantly so there is nothing to be done constantly. When I am not asking, I assume he can manage himself.

DV


_____________________________

Separately we are DiurnalVampire and DVsFox

10/18 Wedding date. 1 year and still blissfully happy

10/13/10 3 year anniversary of his becoming my Fox

Talk impolitely to me, baby - Thanks sunshinemiss



(in reply to CatdeMedici)
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