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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 1:41:17 PM   
NormalOutside


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Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline 		I have a lowered respect for anyone who says their limits can never change.  No matter how we feel at any one particular time, it's not exactly how we felt at other times in our lives, so why do some of us believe we'll always be exactly as we are right now?  We won't.  Unless a person is totally unable to change, their limits are included in that.


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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 1:44:50 PM   
T1981


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Status: offline 		Those are some ways of dividing, IronBear, and it's actually compelling enough for me list down various limits of mine and put them in order like that - very very helpful! Thank you for your contributions to this thread, IronBear - you've got alot of really good stuff to say about this!

There are plenty of things that while I don't enjoy doing the act, persay, I get a great deal of satisfaction from simply doing it because I was ordered to, and then other acts that I derive less pleasure of that sort from, but a sort of a grim determination, and so on and so forth. It would be very useful to write those down and where they currently reside.

Well, there are a few limits that I hope will never change - I never want to include children in my sex life, so that's one thing that will never change. Same goes for animals (they can't give consent, so that blows one of the cornerstones of BDSM out of the water). Personal limits, sure, some of those will move (and that IS a sign of growth and change) - but there are some that will stay, at the risk of imprisonment and completely moral degradation, forever.


< Message edited by T1981 -- 1/7/2009 1:47:46 PM >

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 1:47:13 PM   
IronBear


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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 1:47:42 PM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

I have a lowered respect for anyone who says their limits can never change.  No matter how we feel at any one particular time, it's not exactly how we felt at other times in our lives, so why do some of us believe we'll always be exactly as we are right now?  We won't.  Unless a person is totally unable to change, their limits are included in that.



I agree with most of your post except the lowered respect due to the statement. i make many statements that my opinion changes on over time. As you say yourself people change. When someone states their limits at that time they cant see or imagine them changing I do not think you you should disrespect that. Many hard limits are there for a reason, some of my limits will never ever ever ever change and that I know, others have changed.

When I embarked on all this I had a list as long as my arm, i didnt want to rush things. Now I have a very minimal list, indeed recently I got to thinking about my feelings toward one of my stronger limits and I think in time it will stop being a limit.

We grow and change, along with removing limits from our list we can indeed add to that list. At the moment there is a post about deal breakers. Over the last few months I have added personality traits I now consider hard limits in a relationship. As we get older we hopefully become more aware of what doesnt work for us, this isnt a bad thing.

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 4:19:27 PM   
nafakcha


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Status: offline 		I have limits that I find either beyond my moral compass or just medically unsafe. Kids, scat, permanent damage topping the list. Beyond that I've found I really can't say what my limits are because they constantly change and they vary depending on the level of trust and the relationship I have with a dominant. What I find most interesting is that with the right person, trust etc. the depths of my submission are constantly evolving. I started out a switch in this lifestyle and while I am most definitely a submissive now, only recently have I realized the depths I can submit. For me this discovery is something that I wasn't expecting. I don't know if I would define it as my limits changing or my perceptions of my limits changing.

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 4:33:03 PM   
MstrPBK


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Status: offline 		I am in this situation.

I am not what some would call a sadist, but I have this petitioner who likes to see x, x, and x. While I am not sure I would do it; I non-the-less am tempted. I am not sure what I am going to do yet with this person; but I know I have to come to a decision soon or else risk looking like an idiot or a fool.

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 5:12:46 PM   
Missokyst


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Status: offline 		heh... I'll take that lowered respect and add it to the pile of stuff I keep in my junk drawer.  I have limits, and have hard limits.  My limits are not MINE.. they are the limits I set with a particular partner which do change, by either raising or lowering, depending on what I know about him.  My hard limits are resolute.  Unchanging. 
Believe it or not, some people are pretty saavy about their own inner workings and know when things will not work for them.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

I have a lowered respect for anyone who says their limits can never change.  No matter how we feel at any one particular time, it's not exactly how we felt at other times in our lives, so why do some of us believe we'll always be exactly as we are right now?  We won't.  Unless a person is totally unable to change, their limits are included in that.


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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 5:24:17 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Status: offline 		This is one reason I don't really do the 'hard limit'/'soft limit' thing... a person has limits. Limits may change over time, but while they exist, they are respected. If, at some time, the discussion arises about exploring a limit, the answer will either be yes or no on -either- side of the kneel... if it is yes, we will explore, with the understanding that, while we are exploring, people may change their minds. If it is no, then we don't explore that aspect at that time. That doesn't mean the -question- won't come up again at another time... but if the answer is still no, then no it is.

I have had some servants who did not give me a laundry list of limits -- they had reached a point where they knew that we thought similarly enough on most things that I wouldn't ask them to do something that they knew would be completely aberrant to them, and I knew that if I asked them to do something, and they weren't comfortable, we could discuss it and either find common ground or shelve the matter indefinitely. I believe that everyone has limits -- there is no such thing as a 'no limits' servant... it is a matter of finding relationships where everyone's limits are compatible, and where there is flexibility to explore without one party or another manipulating or perverting the dynamic over what can or can't be done within the relationship.

In your case, it seems that, after careful exploration, you've decided that something that you were once insufficiently informed about might not be as terrifying as you thought... which opens up a possibility, and is a natural expression of the exploratory process. I wouldn't second-guess yourself. Just enjoy the possibility of broadening your horizons at your own pace.

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 1/7/2009 5:40:49 PM >

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 5:33:31 PM   
yourMissTress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

I have a lowered respect for anyone who says their limits can never change.  No matter how we feel at any one particular time, it's not exactly how we felt at other times in our lives, so why do some of us believe we'll always be exactly as we are right now?  We won't.  Unless a person is totally unable to change, their limits are included in that.



Woo Hoo!  What a statement!
 
My limits are hard, they will never change.  My limits include only those things that I find to be ethically and morally repugnant.  In the 20 years that I have been an adult, my beliefs that those things are wrong for me have only been strengthened by my life experiences.  I can confidently say that there will NEVER be a time when I don't find those things to be limits.  Then again, my ethics and morals are firm.

< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 1/7/2009 5:34:25 PM >

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 5:47:29 PM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: T1981
…..This is really the first hard limit that I've had really shift categories, and I'm left wondering what this means for the rest of my hard limits - if those will change eventually, and about the emotional and mental process that someone goes through when their limits change.

I'd really love to hear other people's experiences with limits changing and how they approached it/resolved it for them.

I am so glad for you.    Life is choices.  You now choose to try something that you previously refused to.  Congratulations, you are expanding your awareness.  You may very well grow to learn that you don’t like fisting.  That will be an educated opinion, not a self imposed limit.  I see so many people with self imposed limits accuse others that say they have no “no limits” as being a fantasy or a lie.  Just imagine that what has happened to your perspective on this one thing, like fisting, could happen to all your fears and limits.  I know pessimists will bring up all the TOS issues, death incest bestiality and I won’t be able to address them without getting banned so I concede that battle before it begins, even though they are wrong. 

In many parts of the world, morals are completely different and people that practice those things are human just like you.  Their minds work the same way and it is only by geographical mishap that you think what they do <insert entire TOS list here> is a limit beyond you.  I am not saying that if you try everything you will like it all.  But I am saying that if you have an open mind and willing heart, a world of amazing experiences is there to taste. . .  and you can say you have no limits having formed your preferences with educated choices.
 

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 1/7/2009 5:48:22 PM >

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 6:04:02 PM   
T1981


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Status: offline 		Thank you all so much for the reassuring and encouraging replies! I've been talking with my husband over the replies I've gotten here and it's all very good brain food for us both.

And I guess the big hard limits go without saying, for the most part, (kids, bestiality, death, that sort of thing) so it's getting past all of that and into the more plausible realm of do's and don'ts that is where the work lies. Our mentors have just mentioned, with this news, that there may eventually be watersports in my future, if I so ever get to that point.

And the wierd thing is - I'm not going to do that now. But I'm suddenly not so sure that I won't ever.

It has been incredibly freeing, if not a bit nerve wracking, to realize that I am capable of doing more, even possibly enjoying more than I had previously thought. And that's a very good point, Resident, that simply because I decide to try something does not mean I'll like it, and that's something to keep in mind.

And Calli, that's also something that I think would be so wonderful to reach - a point of comfortability and knowledge of another person where one need not discuss the limits. Sounds wonderful!

I'm glad this thread has brought out so many people to talk about thier experiences and thoughts about it!


< Message edited by T1981 -- 1/7/2009 6:09:40 PM >

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 6:52:28 PM   
ResidentSadist


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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		In regards to fisting though, I have never met a girl that didn’t like.  Something about the multiple orgasms and squirting must have a universal appeal?  Have fun with the watersports when the time comes.   In general your thread stresses my own mission statement that I impress on my partners. 

Life is conditional, even morals are a result of environment.  Self imposed limits are futile. You never know when conditions will change.  Success is a result of choices.  Accept this and choose a limitless path to a successful life, productive relationships and lasting legacy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: T1981
....And that's a very good point, Resident, that simply because I decide to try something does not mean I'll like it, and that's something to keep in mind.



< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 1/7/2009 6:53:08 PM >

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 7:22:16 PM   
beargonewild


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Status: offline 		I know as I  look back and examine why many things I had placed as a hard limit and being inflexible was mainly because I either had a baseless fear of a particular activity or I knew nothing about that activity. Much of what I had feared is now considered some I am willing to explore when the time is right. Some activities are still in that grey area of uncertainty, not because of ignorance on my part but because of the fascination/disgust conflict within myself. It has proven that the more I learn and keep an open mind, the less this fear is until a particular limit is no longer exists.

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 7:45:31 PM   
sleeper798


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Status: offline 		Speaking as a "newb", after reading a lot of "the books" and a bunch of stuff online, I had thought about the lists that many resources recommend that you fill out and share with a new or prospective partner. To determine whether you are compatible enough to have fun together, etc. I offered to fill one out for my definitely not new but new-to-me Master. He told me that would not be necessary. He told me his "hard limits" before we started, and as I felt they were compatible with mine, I placed myself in his capable hands. He will gradually test me and my limits as we go, I am sure, and help me determine where my limits are with knowledge and experience. I don't feel like this is scary, just that it makes sense. I don't see how I can know my limits in areas that are completely (or even relatively) untried at this point. "We will find them." He loves to say that, when we talk about limits. And I love hearing it!

(Shhh, don't tell him this, but I hope in time to push one or two of his limits as well. LOL)

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/8/2009 4:05:03 AM   
agirl


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quote:



..... and about the emotional and mental process that someone goes through when their limits change.

quote:

ORIGINAL: T1981


Just to add to this part of your post....

When there's a challenge of some sort that drags me through my mental self-limit there's often a lot of feelings involved, during and after, similar to a white knuckle ride.

It's relative to how apprehensive I was initially. Sometimes I'll think * Is THAT all it is, why on earth did I fear that?* Other times I'll be left with a slighty incredulous feeling that I made it through and am still alive and am thinking *I wouldn't want that to happen again anytime soon*.

Emotionally, this type of thing has had the effect of fostering feelings of closeness, having shared a very intimate moment in time involving fear and trust. It's like experiencing a mini-adventure with someone....I see myself in a slightly different light and see him in a different light too.

agirl




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