RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!!

RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (Full Version)

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fartslavemat -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 11:38:31 AM)
I think this topic is an important one. Now having said that I don't think that the question asked ,1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ? ,is going to get an revealing response. Right off the bat I felt as if almost everyone would just merely say no but if you ask if they consider it taboo or would they worry about offending someone then maybe you would invoke a different response. As a male sub of Guyanese, Irish and Norwegian decent I have only been dominated by white dommes. It is not because I feel that is how it should be , it is purely based on an emotion and attraction.It could be the fact that I feel that I am equally black and white , I love both hip hop and rock music. I grew up with only the white half but i also allowed myself to embrace the other half and find out who i truly am, me! .I would also like to say that just because a person listens to rap music does not make them a gangster music is supposed to make u move and connect you , I remember when rap told stories and inspired people although there only a few artists that can do that these days.Peace and love what ever happened to that?!? Although i am fully aware of racism I still find it hard to believe that it is so prevalant. and comonnly accepted in some places. I can't wait till the world is one race too bad we wont be around to see it :).

thetammyjo -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 1:45:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dastan 1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ? I consider economics in that I can't afford to have a partner who can't cover his own expenses. He doesn't need to cover me or my household but he needs to not be a burden on us either. quote: 2-) ¿ Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?..... While I have never made race an issue when I've considered potential partners a few have made it an issue themselves and that immediately turned me off. How one is raised certainly has a huge impact on how one behaves or even thinks but I would try not to make a blanket statement if I were considering an individual.

hereyesruponyou -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 2:55:08 PM)
Ok, i'll probably regret this....but i am going to be totally honest. I often find myself having a negative reaction to hispanics, ok, Mexicans in every day life. But that tends to be related to the migrant population that taxes our system and does not portray itself as valuable in my community. On the other hand i have dealt with people from Puerto Rico, Columbia and Chile both on a more professional level and in my personal life (through my daughters friends that think they live here) and i generally have no negative ideas attached to them. I think this is more related to their goals and values. As far as in the kink world? I have almost never been approached by anyone who was of obvious hispanic dissent. I can say it has never been a deciding factor in whether i responded back to the ones who did approach me. One bias i know i really do have is toward middle eastern men. I have had several bad experiences in my professional life where i or my female staff was treated with tremendous disrespect or even refused any interaction. I believe it has affected the way i would respond to someone who wished to serve me. Once again i have not had the experience of being pursued by anyone i took as a serious inquiry who was arabic.

Dastan -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 6:16:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hereyesruponyou Ok, i'll probably regret this....but i am going to be totally honest. I often find myself having a negative reaction to hispanics, ok, Mexicans in every day life. But that tends to be related to the migrant population that taxes our system and does not portray itself as valuable in my community. On the other hand i have dealt with people from Puerto Rico, Columbia and Chile both on a more professional level and in my personal life (through my daughters friends that think they live here) and i generally have no negative ideas attached to them. I think this is more related to their goals and values. As far as in the kink world? I have almost never been approached by anyone who was of obvious hispanic dissent. I can say it has never been a deciding factor in whether i responded back to the ones who did approach me. One bias i know i really do have is toward middle eastern men. I have had several bad experiences in my professional life where i or my female staff was treated with tremendous disrespect or even refused any interaction. I believe it has affected the way i would respond to someone who wished to serve me. Once again i have not had the experience of being pursued by anyone i took as a serious inquiry who was arabic. Thank you for this honest opinion. I don't think you should fear any rejection. You spoke with truth and without a bias, you just saidf you had a small cautioned approach due to previous experiences with mexicans and thankfully, you differentiated them from my race/country and for that i truly appreciate your words....and as for Middle Eastern men, perhaps it's also understandable because of the unfair religious programming that makes them downplay the female role in their world.

Dastan -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 6:17:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: Dastan 1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ? I consider economics in that I can't afford to have a partner who can't cover his own expenses. He doesn't need to cover me or my household but he needs to not be a burden on us either. quote: 2-) ¿ Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?..... While I have never made race an issue when I've considered potential partners a few have made it an issue themselves and that immediately turned me off. How one is raised certainly has a huge impact on how one behaves or even thinks but I would try not to make a blanket statement if I were considering an individual. Thank you for being so informative and impartial, you are as always a voice of reason and a logical approach that clears the path from ignorance's obstacles.

Dastan -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 6:19:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fartslavemat I think this topic is an important one. Now having said that I don't think that the question asked ,1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ? ,is going to get an revealing response. Right off the bat I felt as if almost everyone would just merely say no but if you ask if they consider it taboo or would they worry about offending someone then maybe you would invoke a different response. As a male sub of Guyanese, Irish and Norwegian decent I have only been dominated by white dommes. It is not because I feel that is how it should be , it is purely based on an emotion and attraction.It could be the fact that I feel that I am equally black and white , I love both hip hop and rock music. I grew up with only the white half but i also allowed myself to embrace the other half and find out who i truly am, me! .I would also like to say that just because a person listens to rap music does not make them a gangster music is supposed to make u move and connect you , I remember when rap told stories and inspired people although there only a few artists that can do that these days.Peace and love what ever happened to that?!? Although i am fully aware of racism I still find it hard to believe that it is so prevalant. and comonnly accepted in some places. I can't wait till the world is one race too bad we wont be around to see it :). Thank you for the comment. It is nice to see a side I didn't plan to really expose, how a Submissive like me, from an "outside" race/nationality to that which is the norm in BDSM, can see the issue and feel about it as well as register his interactions with other women. Thank you for posting it

Dastan -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 6:22:17 PM)
quote: 1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ? 2-) ¿ Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?..... 1. No I do not feel I am doing something incorrect. If I inspire him as a Dominant and we both agree to: play, be in a relationship or what have you, then in my opinion its good. I do not look at race, I look at the person. 2. Societal conditioning can be more difficult for a new sub to overcome. However if he does have a submissive personality and finds a Dominant that inspires him, then he may work to overcome that conditioning so that he can be who he truly is inside. Once that hurdle is past then the person can go on to be a great sub, IF he truly wants to be. Just my 2 cents, ~Lashra quote: 3-)¿ What is your opinion about Latino males in BDSM, both as Masters or Subs/Slaves, and on what bases you make this comment ? 4-) ¿ Have you seen a pattern in the NEGATIVE individuals you have encountered inside BDSM from the Latino ethnocultural group, such as a given Nationality, or perhaps a socio-economical and educational status or level ? 3. I had a Puerto Rican sub for three years. He was a nice guy but 17 years my junior. He started out eager, obedient and pleasing. But at the end of the three years we were arguing all the time. I do not think it was his race at all, but his age and the fact he was still finding out who he was and his place in the world. Now he identifies as a Dom. Personally I do not think he will make a very good Dom. Unless he has matured over the years, back then he had some really unrealistic ideals about how slaves should be treated, he has a terrible temper and is a huge Mama's boy. This however does not mean ALL latino's would make lousy Dom's, I do not believe that for a moment. Would I take on another Latino? In a minute, I think Latino's are hot, passionate and very romantic. That relationship was a learning experience for Me and for him. 4. The only negativity I have encountered personally was not from a particular race but a particular group associated with the BDSM community. They do not think very highly of female Dominants and I'm fairly certain many of us do not think to highly of them. My other 2 cents, ~Lashra Dear Mistress Lashra.....as always, your 2 cents of wisdom outweight any 2 tons of Gold any man can have. Thank you for keeping my hopes and spirit alive and for bringing me consolation, and safe confidence in BDSM practicioners. I only wish one day i find a Domme like you or Mistyress TammyJo to serve and please and make her proud of me and her choice...... And also thanks for thinking we latinos are Hot, Passionate and very Romantic...but with a wonderful lady as you are, it is easy to become a poet, a knight in shining armor, a prince charming and a willing sacrifice at your altar....

Coupleofwhats -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 8:53:59 PM)
Well, I'm not a submissive, but race doesn't really enter my play. In fact, I find it a total turnoff when someone feels the need to bring it up. ("Hello, Black Goddess!" "Can I be your white bitch?" etc.) I feel like it's present in the rest of my life, and I like to make my kink a safe haven from all the bullshit. I think that there can sometimes be in-group issues though: I have come upon black men who would never bottom to me because I'm black, but would gladly offer to top me. Or who wouldn't play with me at all because they want it to be interracial for whatever reason. I treat them the same way that I treat people who want to exoticize me (what's exotic about an American, I ask you?): I plug my ears and skip away singing "Lalalalalala!"

FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 10:15:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Coupleofwhats Well, I'm not a submissive, but race doesn't really enter my play. In fact, I find it a total turnoff when someone feels the need to bring it up. ("Hello, Black Goddess!" "Can I be your white bitch?" etc.) I feel like it's present in the rest of my life, and I like to make my kink a safe haven from all the bullshit Me too. [sm=goodpost.gif] M

mozartsfuneral -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/9/2009 8:13:57 AM)
It bothers me when I'm addressed as a Black Goddess, or a Nubian Goddess...sure my skin color is pretty, but...yikes. To particularly point that out and that's the first thing you're going to say to me? Nooo thank you. I'm a person...I bleed red.

servantforuse -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/9/2009 9:31:53 AM)
As a submissive white male, I have preferred to serve Black women. Skin color means nothing to me, but the Black women I have served have usually been more bossy, strict and demanding than the white women I have served. I have never 'topped from the bottom' serving a Black woman.

Dastan -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/10/2009 8:15:22 AM)
Thank you, Servantforuse for your candid reply. It clearly seems that although it isn't a racial-based obvious allure, you serve Black Ladies better for their inherent dominance, their impetuos force which seems to be an ethnic/cultural trait brought up in Black Ladies in the USA due to history. Mistress Coupleofwhats and Miss Mozartsfuneral, thank you as well for your kind response. I guess that it is hard that a male Sub comes to you with such ephitets as "Nubian/Black/Ebony...." before any other title, playing the racial pride and prejudice card, it's like an indirect racism thing but I guess some might also feel offended if a man told them, being him a white male, that he simply likes "African-descent" ladies over white ones. Perhaps there's a right measurement, and a line, that separates an affinity and allure for a racial trait from simply being a race fetishist or kinkster.

Coupleofwhats -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/10/2009 10:43:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dastan Thank you, Servantforuse for your candid reply. It clearly seems that although it isn't a racial-based obvious allure, you serve Black Ladies better for their inherent dominance, their impetuos force which seems to be an ethnic/cultural trait brought up in Black Ladies in the USA due to history. Mistress Coupleofwhats and Miss Mozartsfuneral, thank you as well for your kind response. I guess that it is hard that a male Sub comes to you with such ephitets as "Nubian/Black/Ebony...." before any other title, playing the racial pride and prejudice card, it's like an indirect racism thing but I guess some might also feel offended if a man told them, being him a white male, that he simply likes "African-descent" ladies over white ones. Perhaps there's a right measurement, and a line, that separates an affinity and allure for a racial trait from simply being a race fetishist or kinkster. My thing is this: there are women of all races who can bring that "natural dominance" feel to the table. It's not something that is necessarily found in a black woman. I'm black and my style of domination is necessarily more feminine and teasing because... that's who I am. I've never been a sassy neck swiveler, and I have no interest in putting on a kinky minstrel show. I object to being stereotyped and projected upon. I've had people try to feed me that, "Oh, you must be naturally bitchy/bossy because of being black" thing... and it doesn't matter that I'm quite obviously the opposite of that. I giggle when I play and my speaking voice is tinkly and mildly valleygirlesque. My advice for submissives with a racial fetish or affinity or whatever? Approach a woman in a neutral manner: if she WANTS to be a Black Goddess or Nubian Mistress, she'll tell you so. Please stop trying to force your fetish on others: I like to hit, but I don't walk up and randomly smack people who I prejudge as looking like masochists.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/10/2009 11:07:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dastan I guess some might also feel offended if a man told them, being him a white male, that he simply likes "African-descent" ladies over white ones. I do prefer black women over white women. I also prefer Asian and Latin women over white women. I like dark skin and blackblackblack hair. Did you know that on AreYouHotOrNot, if you post photos of two "equally" pretty women, but one is blonde and the other is raven-haired, that the blonde will score about 1 point higher? Stuff like that pisses me off. I'm not looking to submit, so take this advice as you will... but I have never started a conversation with a woman by saying, "I like you because you're Mexican and I've had a Mexican girlfriend before," or, "You're black and damn black women are hot." Comments like that sound as though I don't really care about her, I'm just taking a shot because she happens to land in the right demographic group. Well, how cold and unromantic can you get? What she looks like is a preference. Who she is -- decent, honest, intelligent person -- are mandatories. I talk to her about who she is as a person, and later on, when we're discussing dating histories, it's kinda obvious what physical qualities I'm attracted to.

Dastan -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/10/2009 4:38:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Coupleofwhats quote: ORIGINAL: Dastan Thank you, Servantforuse for your candid reply. It clearly seems that although it isn't a racial-based obvious allure, you serve Black Ladies better for their inherent dominance, their impetuos force which seems to be an ethnic/cultural trait brought up in Black Ladies in the USA due to history. Mistress Coupleofwhats and Miss Mozartsfuneral, thank you as well for your kind response. I guess that it is hard that a male Sub comes to you with such ephitets as "Nubian/Black/Ebony...." before any other title, playing the racial pride and prejudice card, it's like an indirect racism thing but I guess some might also feel offended if a man told them, being him a white male, that he simply likes "African-descent" ladies over white ones. Perhaps there's a right measurement, and a line, that separates an affinity and allure for a racial trait from simply being a race fetishist or kinkster. My thing is this: there are women of all races who can bring that "natural dominance" feel to the table. It's not something that is necessarily found in a black woman. I'm black and my style of domination is necessarily more feminine and teasing because... that's who I am. I've never been a sassy neck swiveler, and I have no interest in putting on a kinky minstrel show. I object to being stereotyped and projected upon. I've had people try to feed me that, "Oh, you must be naturally bitchy/bossy because of being black" thing... and it doesn't matter that I'm quite obviously the opposite of that. I giggle when I play and my speaking voice is tinkly and mildly valleygirlesque. My advice for submissives with a racial fetish or affinity or whatever? Approach a woman in a neutral manner: if she WANTS to be a Black Goddess or Nubian Mistress, she'll tell you so. Please stop trying to force your fetish on others: I like to hit, but I don't walk up and randomly smack people who I prejudge as looking like masochists. Dear Mistress Coupleofwhats...thank you for expanding my words, and helping others read them as I intended them to mean, what you said is what i feel like regarding race and BDSM, thank you very much for your sincerity and your help to aid me in translating my ideas into your language. And just if I may say so.....a Lady like you doesn't even need to say an order, any given word, as sweet as it can sound, is a command to a Sub lucky to be at your service, it may be as swet and velvelt-like seductive as you wish for, but it resonates with a thundering force and causes a man's heart, and feet, to move faster so as to obey and please someone as special as you demonstrate that you are...

AlexandraLynch -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/10/2009 9:06:35 PM)
When I was looking for a boy, I wasn't looking at skin color. I was looking for a true submissive heart and mind, coupled with a witty and intelligent mind and a capable body, all of which were located locally enough to me to be able to meet him and see if we clicked in a reasonable amount of time. And I did find that. There are always issues. My husband and I are both white, but one of us is from a Southern culture and one Northern, and there have been issues that came up. I think that it takes both people being very aware of things to make a cross racial relationship work. Of course, one has to be self-aware to run a good relationship anyway.

MistressRouge -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/11/2009 4:37:30 AM)
I am of mixed origin, half black carribean, and half white british, with a spanish bloodline also. I had a white sub some years ago, that wished a racial session, I had not experienced such before so thought I would give it a try lol. He wished me to belittle his white race, and speaks how well endowed, how physically strong and how powerful black males were compared to his lowly white race. I must say, the dynamic did not work for me one iota, and I actually could not slander or follow through with it. Being of mixed race, I could not racially slander any race for that matter, although I specialise in humiliation, verbal and physical. I would never actually verbally humiliate with anyone's personality, race or characteristics. My personal choice, however I know that racial play, can be quite hot for many, but not my bag. I once sessioned with a black sub, a few years ago, so not as many black subs that I session with compared to white. Many asian subs, are very much into foot worship, well they are in the UK anyway, and I have 2 footslaves from Turkey, and 2 from Egypt that fly to the UK especially, so that is another interesting find too [:)]

RainydayNE -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/11/2009 4:50:39 AM)
i'm neither a sub male or a mistress but i am experienced with the whole "racial intermingling" thingamabob. and i personally don't have an issue with it, but when you're a female of a brown tint, there are certain segments of the males-of-a-brown-tint community who don't want you with a nonbrown person PERIOD, much less in a D/s sense. like it negates all of MLK's work or something =p (of course it's TOTALLY fine for them, though.) i've gotten loads of negative comments about stuff like that before. i did notice on one "equpiment" site that the only time you see a brown male model is when he's modeling steel shackles =p see here: http://www.extremerestraints.com/bondage-gear_10/ and honestly i have to wonder why that is. he appears almost nowhere else in the entire site. =p THAT annoys me. it's like... an image right out of Amistad or something =p i dont think purely racial play would be all that fun. some people get off on that, but ech... not for me.

MistressRouge -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/11/2009 4:56:52 AM)
Those are the type of images, that I emotionally analyse too, and think "why"? I have never really considered that many select me for session, for my race, only that one time with the racial client. I just see me, as me, I am quite pleased that I am a little different in design, however I admire all of all races, as people not skintone [:)] quote: ORIGINAL: RainydayNE i'm neither a sub male or a mistress but i am experienced with the whole "racial intermingling" thingamabob. and i personally don't have an issue with it, but when you're a female of a brown tint, there are certain segments of the males-of-a-brown-tint community who don't want you with a nonbrown person PERIOD, much less in a D/s sense. like it negates all of MLK's work or something =p (of course it's TOTALLY fine for them, though.) i've gotten loads of negative comments about stuff like that before. i did notice on one "equpiment" site that the only time you see a brown male model is when he's modeling steel shackles =p see here: http://www.extremerestraints.com/bondage-gear_10/ and honestly i have to wonder why that is. he appears almost nowhere else in the entire site. =p THAT annoys me. it's like... an image right out of Amistad or something =p i dont think purely racial play would be all that fun. some people get off on that, but ech... not for me.

FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/11/2009 7:31:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RainydayNE and i personally don't have an issue with it, but when you're a female of a brown tint, there are certain segments of the males-of-a-brown-tint community who don't want you with a nonbrown person PERIOD, much less in a D/s sense. like it negates all of MLK's work or something =p (of course it's TOTALLY fine for them, though.) i've gotten loads of negative comments about stuff like that before Oh do I ever know what you mean. If I ever want 80-90% of the black male population's attention, I know exactly how to do it: just date a white guy, lol. I'm unaffected by that hype though; I'm going to date whomever treats me as I wish, and if he's green, and I'm attracted to him, so be it. I don't necessarily feel insulted when someone approaches me with the attraction to my brown skin, after all, everyone has that thing that makes them tick. I do however, pay very close attention thereafter, to see if he is trying to relate to the woman I am, or has just decided he knows me as he does all black women, and gives me a script from which to fulfill his fantasies. Not surprisingly, I've never met anyone who's taken that approach. Not because I immediately shut them down, but more because usually the admiration and desire for the experience comes from the taboo place, which they can only admit to in the dark/private. quote: i dont think purely racial play would be all that fun. some people get off on that, but ech... not for me. It's not something that makes me hot either, so while, I wouldn't say never, it is very highly unlikely. M

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