The use of dedly force.

The use of dedly force. (Full Version)

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beargonewild -> The use of dedly force. (1/8/2009 3:53:28 PM)
Reading a comment from a poster on another thread has raised a question which is the purpose here. The gist of the comment was this person stated that they'd use what ever force necessary to protect their property from being stolen, and if it means the person uses deadly force then so be it. If this is the case, have we become that fixated upon protecting our possessions by any means at our disposal? I mean, a car or a motorcycle or even a race car is just a material object. Material possessions can be replaced. Secondly, because we have laws in place to protect our property, does the fact that these laws mean a person can use said laws as an easy justification for using deadly force to protect what we own when we have other avenues for justice? In other words, just because a law states we can us deadly force doesn't mean that is the only solution, it is a solution when other solutions have either failed or aren't good enough.

LaTigresse -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 3:55:04 PM)
My property no. Material things are replacable. Only my loved ones (including furry babies) get that sort of protection.

Vendaval -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 4:08:10 PM)
LaT already stated my viewpoint.

subm4maam -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 4:12:12 PM)
I guess I can jump in here on this one. A lot of states won't let you use deadly force in order to only protect property, unless that person has entered your home. Oklahoma for instance, if I have someone trespassing outside I cannot use deadly force in order to preserve my property. Under Castle Doctrine however, the law says that if someone enters your residence in order to commit a crime, you have an immediate fear for your safety and life, and are allowed to pull the trigger under the protection of the law, even if said intruder is unarmed. Now, to answer the question, Would I use deadly force to protect my property? Absolutely, in any situation that the law would allow me to do so. If someone breaks into my home, they better hope I'm not here or they will be getting a lead welcoming party. I actually wish the law applied to the outside of the home, and my vehicle when I'm not inside of it. It's MY property. I wake up in the mornings, go to work, earn my paycheck and buy what I have with the money that I earned. I'll be damned if I'm going to "value" the life of someone that tries to take that away from me. Harsh? Possibly, but if a few more people took the life of a few more scumbags that tried to steal from them, maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't have quite so many scumbags out there that show no respect to those that have what they have because they have earned it. Thats kind of a sore subject for me....

Aszhrae -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 4:18:36 PM)
I would protect and use deadly force if I had to keep those I love from harm. Property can be replaced.

Termyn8or -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 4:28:45 PM)
That's the risk they take. Mothers, if you don't want your kids killed, teach them not to steal. It really is that simple. T PS, in light of current affairs, people are going to be forced to do what they would normally not do. Might want to think about that before sqeezing the trigger, but it still stands. Crime is supposed to be risky, that's why it pays so well. T

Vendaval -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 4:34:17 PM)
True. And of course I would fight back with a mugger or theif. I am just not willing to use "deadly force" to do so. Hell, in her late 70's mum beat off a would be purse snatcher with her metal cane she uses for the arthritis so there you go!

beargonewild -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 4:49:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subm4maam Would I use deadly force to protect my property? Absolutely, in any situation that the law would allow me to do so. If someone breaks into my home, they better hope I'm not here or they will be getting a lead welcoming party. I actually wish the law applied to the outside of the home, and my vehicle when I'm not inside of it. It's MY property. I wake up in the mornings, go to work, earn my paycheck and buy what I have with the money that I earned. I'll be damned if I'm going to "value" the life of someone that tries to take that away from me. Harsh? Possibly, but if a few more people took the life of a few more scumbags that tried to steal from them, maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't have quite so many scumbags out there that show no respect to those that have what they have because they have earned it. Thats kind of a sore subject for me.... I do admit that your view does seem harsh in my mind though that's just how I view things. I understand that we had worked hard to own "things" and I had been in a situation where I had my residence broken into, at the time I wasn't home but in class. Having had that happen is not a pleasant experience yet looking at that incident unemotionally, I have to take partial blame because I could have taken better precautions to prevent being robbed by insisting my landlord install better locks on the door. Out of all the items I lost was a four thousand dollar watch given as a grad present. It was my stupidity that I didn't keep it in a safety deposit box but in the dresser drawer. Would I ever use deadly force if my house was broken into, probably not. I just ensure that my home and possessions are more securely kept, making it far more difficult for a home invader. If it came to a loved one, I would love to say I wouldn't hesitate though in reality I really don't know if I have that capability.

Irishknight -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 4:52:15 PM)
When I confront someone on my property, I always go prepared for use of deadly force. If the situation can be settled withoutit and I don't have to use those tools, its all good. If I show up to talk unarmed and it turns out that the other guy was interested in deadly force, I may have a problem. If I show up with "a knife at a gun fight" I can no longer protect my family or provide for them. I am going to err in thinking that any dirtbag who is trying to steal my shit is also trying to harm me or my family. Better to be ready and willing to take him out than to be surprised when he takes me down or harms my family so that he can buy some more meth.

subrob1967 -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 4:53:22 PM)
Life is cheap, 52" Plasma TV's aren't.

bestbabync -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 5:00:46 PM)
deadly force is only justified when protecting yourself or a third party from the threat of injury and or loss of life. imho...just saying.

celticlord2112 -> RE: The use of dedly force. (1/8/2009 5:01:28 PM)
quote: If this is the case, have we become that fixated upon protecting our possessions by any means at our disposal? I mean, a car or a motorcycle or even a race car is just a material object. Material possessions can be replaced. Can they? Someone steals your car, you're basically screwed on transportation for a time. You might even lose a job because you're not able to get to work reliably (a very real possibility in a place like Houston, which is spread out all over the place). Further, why should the thief's life be worth more than my property? Why should the thief's life be worth so much as a plug nickel? If the thief wishes long life, he can best secure that for himself by leaving my property unmolested. If he values his life so little as to engage in theft, I am under no compunction to give his life any higher regard.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 5:01:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Life is cheap, 52" Plasma TV's aren't. That is an excellent point, and one I emphasize with employees often. People are important, equipment can be replaced....but never forget...the employment office is open 6 days a week....but it takes 10 days and 20% down to get a loan for new equipment! (I like to show my softer side to the staff).

tsumari -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 5:17:53 PM)
If someone is trying to rob my house or my car they can die, and that is all there is to it. When they entered my property they immediately became a threat to my life and I'm not going to spend time thinking about why they might not be, lest a bullet enter my head. Whether or not I will use such force is another story (I've been forced to walk away from someone with a gun pointed at me before in my neighborhood) but I would not mind if the thieving scumbags in my area all fell over dead tomorrow.

bluepanda -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 5:50:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse My property no. Material things are replacable. Only my loved ones (including furry babies) get that sort of protection. I would agree with that, with one provision - if they're in my house, they're dead. I don't know what their plans are, what they came in there to do, and I'm taking no chances. I'm killing them. It was their misfortune to misinterpret the Grateful Dead bumper stickers on the car in the driveway; they picked the wrong house.

bluepanda -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 5:53:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or PS, in light of current affairs, people are going to be forced to do what they would normally not do. Might want to think about that before sqeezing the trigger, but it still stands. Crime is supposed to be risky, that's why it pays so well. T That's a very astute and insightful observation, Mr. Termyn8or. And certainly one to keep in mind. But still, if it ever comes to that, I'll have to do what I have to do. I won't enjoy it, but I've got a lot of years left to live, and I was looking forward to living every one of them. I'll do what I need to do to make sure I'm around to do that.

MasterG2kTR -> RE: The use of deadly force. (1/8/2009 6:00:46 PM)
I side with the majority here. If you are trying to rip me off, your life ain't worth shit!! I worked hard for everything I have and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let someone take just because they feel like it. Laws or no laws the cops aren't gonna break a sweat to get my things back if stolen. Even if the guy would get caught, you then have to take him to court yourself to hopefully get restitution from the bum.

lronitulstahp -> RE: The use of dedly force. (1/8/2009 6:01:31 PM)
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-bk-ocoee-robber-shot-010709,0,7529637.story This story has been on the news here, and when i hear the disbelief, and shock in the shooters voice, i can't help but feel he honestly thought only of protecting the store clerk, first. He wasn't trying to be some cowboy, or commando. He just happened to be in the right place, at the right time. That is when i see no problem with deadly force. He might have prevented the rape, harm, or even death of another. As far as i can see, that's the only way deadly force is excusable.

BlackPhx -> RE: The use of dedly force. (1/8/2009 6:13:01 PM)
Bear; I am not sure what crime is like up in Canada but in various parts of the US, Home Invasions can often be deadly. No T.H.E. Cat, No Eddie Ocean, the punks doing these invasions are often armed, and don't care who they hurt while waltzing out with your computer, jewelry and TV's leaving you laying bleeding on the floor and your partner dead, raped or dying. They don't care if there are kids present, whether you are 80 or 20, they feel entitled to take what they want including your life or soul (rape is soul murder). We have had people kick in someones door and shoot them, thinking they were the person who lived next door. We have had smash and grabs and others who like one killed 4 people for an Xbox 360. Crime on the streets, in homes, carjackings that toss the driver out of the moving car, you name it happens in places that you never expect it to. To bring up an old , old case, the Sharon Tate Home Invasion done by the Manson family. You never know if they are just going to grab property or, up the stakes. So yes.. someone invades my home while I am home they can reasonably expect me to use deadly force. Sword, gun, whip, or anything else I can lay my hands on where ever I am in the house including liquid Drano or Tilex if that is all I have available. I am not going to wait to see if all they want is the TV..I am going to presume my life is on the line and respond accordingly to protect it. They would get out of jail in a couple of years, IF they were caught at all..I won't get out of the grave. poenkitten P.S. from Blackphx : "I spent 1 year as a Corrections Officer. Most of the people I talked to in there were in there for Manslaughter, serving 2-4 years. These people have convinced themselves that they are going to die by the age of 30 or sooner. they killed people to steal drugs from other drug dealers and have no compunctions about shooting someone else, they believe they have no choice." "People aren't just theives any more, they use violence as they feel like they have no other choice. They are quite certain that someone is going to try and kill them for what they have. This worldview cannot be reasoned with, any other behavior to them is a fantasy world. It can't be solved in an instant, and it can't be solved when they think they have the power, and such is the case when they are breaking into your house and stealing things. If you think for one moment that you can talk these people into sparing our life you would be in for a rude awakening when you really meet them. The old adage if you want peace you must prepare for war really does apply here. If they think they are in a position of power, they will be ruthless. That is the reality I learned when I spent 1 year as a prison guard, they show no mercy and expect none."

Vendaval -> RE: The use of dedly force. (1/8/2009 6:17:58 PM)
You have a good policy in always being prepared, Irish. I have dealt with quite a few meth tweekers and belligerant drunks over the years. Ironitulstahp, thanks for sharing that story. I am sure that the store clerk Marina Rodrigues is very grateful to Chris.

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