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Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 6:50:15 AM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
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An issue with anal sex has been on my mind a lot lately and really bothering me. From what I've so far read and observed, on and offline, it seems quite a few in this lifestyle have past abuse issues/experiences: physical, emotional, verbal, sexual. I have them as well.

I'm seeking opinions, views, ideas from both Dom and sub perspectives.

My dilemma, issue, question is this. When a sub has been anally raped, even if years ago, and psychologically, emotionally, and physically has a fear of anal sex, how can/do you get past that? How can you/would you work to find a way to enjoy or get the sub to enjoy and submit to it? What would you do?

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Sarah2
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Wild Side Readers KCSass

Post #: 1

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 6:56:26 AM

MrDiscipline44

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
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You can't. The sub has to be willing to get past it and if they aren't, there is nothing you can do to get them past it. Mary Jane, one of my girls, is very scared of knives because of a traumatic experience in the past. Untill she is ready to get over her fear, there is nothing I can do for her. When she is ready to get over it, I'll treat her to sensual knife play to reinforce that it is not an inherently bad thing when someone pulls out a sharp instrument. That along with talking out her fears and building trust that I won't intentionally harm her, is the only way I see for her to get over this fear.

< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 1/5/2006 6:57:22 AM >

_____________________________

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Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

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(in reply to SweetSarijane)

Post #: 2

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 7:00:07 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetSarijane
When a sub has been anally raped, even if years ago, and psychologically, emotionally, and physically has a fear of anal sex, how can/do you get past that? How can you/would you work to find a way to enjoy or get the sub to enjoy and submit to it? What would you do?

Sometimes you don't.

It's PERFECTLY FINE to say "That's an area I don't want to ever go into, I've dealt with it in my own way, and simply know that for the rest of this life, it's not something I want to experience and that if I do it will take something away from myself that I can't get back"

It's very good to KNOW that and to go with that. Sometimes pushing a limit is NOT a good thing and NOT necessary.

Secondly, dominants are NOT therapists. They can enable a lot of growth and change, but they are no substitute for the real thing. If you've got serious issues, go see a good therapist.

But otherwise, you take TIME and ENERGY. You get them adjusted to the act. You let them see other people enjoying it, you read lots about it. You allow them to be as informed and empowered with information as they can be.

Then you work through the triggers- are there WAYS of doing the act that will prevent them from associating with the previous abuse? What feelings does the act bring up? Can those feelings be used for good or should they be avoided?

All this you do WELL BEFORE you even TRY doing the act.

Once you've laid the groundwork, then you can start working with it. Go with the methods you've decided. For anal sex you could start by doing a 69 position and having the dom lick around your anus for awhile. Then, a few times later, he could lube up and put a finger inside, while caressing you and kissing your normal erogenous zones. Eventually you can build up to your version of anal sex that works for you.

Also important is that EACH time afterwards you decompress. Before moving on, discuss what happened, how it felt, what you went through, whether you still want to move forward. Snuggle, feel safe and secure.

Serious emotional trauma is not gotten over in a day, a week, a month, and rarely even a year. It's a very long hard process.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to SweetSarijane)

Post #: 3

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 7:18:27 AM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
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quote:

The sub has to be willing to get past it and if they aren't, there is nothing you can do to get them past it.

That's the direction I was leaning. A sub who wants to get past it, and is willing to work to get past it.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

Post #: 4

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 7:30:35 AM

LadyKim

Posts: 191
Joined: 11/11/2004
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SweetSarijane,

As a teenager, I was introduced to anal sex during a rape. Despite years of having anal sex on my HELL NO list, I realized that by putting it on that list I was allowing the rapist control. If I had been smart, I would have contacted a sex therapist (psychologist) to help me work through this issue. They are great at identifying causes and triggers for anxiety (fears), and teaching new ways to deal with them. Sex therapists will also give you exercises to do to help you work through any specific sexual fear you have to become a healthier person.

Since I did not take the route I highly recommend you take, I will tell you what I did. At the time I decided to confront that demon, I was in a relationship with a man I was introducing to bdsm. He loved anal sex, and was more tan happy to help me in a very loving and caring manner.
Since I was bound during my rape, bondage was out of the question when while working through this. Though I overcame my fear of bondage prior to this, I knew I could only handle one trigger at a time. We would start out very very very loving and tender....... taking bubble baths, candles, romantic music, TONS of kissing and petting. He would work me into a sexual frenzy to get my mind off what the ultimate goal was. The first several times, he did not even attempt anal on me. He woul put me on my belly and kiss (nibble) my shoulder and back of my neck while rubbing my butt........ or lay on my back while kissing me......... and always fucked my pussy while I got use to hands on my ass and back. This helped me learn to trust him when I was in that vulnerable state.

About the fourth or fifth time we had sex after discussing my wanting to tackle that fear, he started much the same as he had the first few times, but lubed up his cock and slid it between my ass cheek probing at my star. I KNEW it was going to happen, and I freaked out!!! Rather than jumping off, he laid his body weight on my back with his cock still positioned right at my star and started kissing my neck and saying soothing things in my ear. I was crying........ SOBBING. He just continued to be very loving, extremely consoling..... and slid his cock inside me very slowly. He held it there while he wrapped his arms around my sides and rocked me back and forth still comforting me and trying to bring my arousal back (which of course did not work that time). After about ten minutes of laying like this, he pulled out and held me. The next time, same thing happened........ but this time he started pumping in and out..... the entire time whispering and kissing me while I cried telling me how proud he was of me taking back what I'd been robbed of so long ago.

It took a while, probably two months of three or four times a week for me to get past the sobs, tears, and panic. In that time, he was the rock that helped me reclaim that aspect of my sexuality and take it back from the rapist.

It has been a lot of years since then, but now I can honestly say I LOVE anal sex. I think partly because I remember the cost of getting to the point of enjoying it.

Good luck to you. I really hope this helps.

MzKim

(in reply to SweetSarijane)

Post #: 5

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 7:39:44 AM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
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Thank you LA. That's what I was looking for...advice, ideas on how to work through it physically. I do know it's ok to say

quote:

"That's an area I don't want to ever go into,

It's been said a lot that a victim gives the attacker power over them if they don't let go and get past the incident, such as never having sex again after being raped, letting the fear control them and in doing so giving control of that part of your life to the one who caused the trauma.

So what I'm getting at is when the victim is ready and wants to take back the control.

quote:

Secondly, dominants are NOT therapists. They can enable a lot of growth and change, but they are no substitute for the real thing. If you've got serious issues, go see a good therapist.

Good advice, and I wasn't intending it as a Dom being a therapist. Therapy helps a lot dealing with emotional and psychological issues, talking things out. I was more getting at the when the sub is to the point of wanting to physically get past that barrier, to try it, working to that point.

quote:

Serious emotional trauma is not gotten over in a day, a week, a month, and rarely even a year. It's a very long hard process.

That I know all too well. There's never a magic fix for that.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 6

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 8:13:03 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetSarijane

Good advice, and I wasn't intending it as a Dom being a therapist. Therapy helps a lot dealing with emotional and psychological issues, talking things out. I was more getting at the when the sub is to the point of wanting to physically get past that barrier, to try it, working to that point.

Fox was raped when he was 15 -- I won't go into the details because I think its his private business except to say that it involved two really powerful activities that I enjoy.

We have done both of them now. One, knife play, we do as regularly as I wish to do it. The other, anal penetration, we had to stop after doing that and failing to have it be a pleasant, even comfortable activity for him.

Knives are a purely fear based activity (at least in my house because I do not feel qualiftied to cut with them nor do I desire to learn how to do cutting). The fear thing just faded over time and his being with me and dealing with the rape through therapy and self-growth/reflection/change.

Anal sex is also a physical activity. It turns out that it wasn't our approach or his fear that was keeping it painful but damage he had as a result of that rape. He went to a specialist and they did a could of examines over a series of months to make sure it wasn't anything current that was causing the problems. Now he could have surgery but that is both expensive and frankly inherently more risky than I personally think having anal sex is worth at this time.

So we do other things -- external touches, dirty talk, role-play. We get some of the emotional thrills without the physcial pain. And no, lube cannot solve all problems.

Anyway, what does this have to do with your situation, SweetSarijane?

I'd suggest getting a physical exam first to make sure that physically you aren't scarred or damaged first.

Second I suggest that if your doctor(s) give you a "go" then you penetrate yourself first and work slowly to get used to the sensations and the sizes. You know your body better than any top could ever know it. You can feel things immediately and stop or slow down immediately.

If that works and you are ready to try with a partner, be really honest about your journey and how much you have taken and how slow you go. Be realistic. If you want an average sized penis up there moving around and you can only take a small dildo going slowly, you need more building up to that size and more time.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to SweetSarijane)

Post #: 7

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 8:49:12 AM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

MzKim,

Thank you for sharing that. It does help very much. I want to get past this, be able to enjoy anal sex, or at least no longer fear it. Like you, the rape was my introduction to it. I was 19. I wasn't bound but he was very strong and built big and held me down. It was done to me by someone I cared about and trusted. I think that makes it even worse because then trust issues get tangled in with the fear, pain, and rage.

I have had therapy sessions with psychologists and counselors, talked it out, I know my triggers, and I have tried a few times to get past it, but always it failed.

Looking back, a lot of it was because not enough time or care was taken. Each time I ended up screaming, crying and literally fighting him off of me.

The anal is the one area of it I haven't been able to get past. I have overcome the other rape. It really angers me that he still has this control over me. I want to take that control back.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to LadyKim)

Post #: 8

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 9:18:16 AM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

If the submissive is willing to work past the trauma, any number of positive psychological reinforcement / positive association techniques should, over time, work.

(in reply to SweetSarijane)

Post #: 9

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 2:56:54 PM

DelRey

Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

SweetSarijane

SweetSarijane First let me say from the bottom of my heart I am so sorry to hear of your awful past. I can not fathom the physical and emotional trauma you have been forced to deal with. With a warm Masterful Hug I would make it all go away for you if I could, nobody should have to face what you did. From my heart to yours, I pull for you to heal.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I like the fun anal threads so much better.

I think your on the right path. In your posts I read that you want to get through it and or have some desires for some anal sex. If I were your Master and knew of your past issues I would want to key in to your wants and desires without pushing. If your Master helps build your desires I think the rest will come natural e.g. baby steps, anal play, teasing, rimming during oral sex even innuendo’s and some anal humor. All of this will help erode the negative issues but it is only your desires that will help you get past that painful spinster muscle in your mind. (couldn’t resist) It is your want or need to be taken that will get you over the hump (Oh God I gotta stop ~snickering).

My advice ? Don’t deny the thoughts or desires but rather build off of them.

Good luck

Del Rey

(in reply to SweetSarijane)

Post #: 10

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 3:15:40 PM

MasterLark

Posts: 249
Joined: 5/12/2005
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MzKim -- that was terrific.

(in reply to LadyKim)

Post #: 11

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 3:19:41 PM

Gomez

Posts: 51
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

You can't. The sub has to be willing to get past it and if they aren't, there is nothing you can do to get them past it. Untill she is ready to get over her fear, there is nothing I can do for her.

That along with talking out her fears and building trust that I won't intentionally harm her, is the only way I see for her to get over this fear.

I am in atotal agreement with MrDiscipline and what he is saying. It will take a long journey to get over the trauma, but with the right Master guiding and helping you through it, it can be overcome. May your jouney through these troubled water become smooth for you in the future.

_____________________________

Sometimes people would rather believe in a lie as its a lot easier and less complicated than the truth!

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Post #: 12

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 5:43:11 PM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

TammyJo,

Thank you for that advice. So far as I am aware there is no physical reason to prevent me doing this. I will however follow your advice and be sure.

The other advice you gave:

quote:

then you penetrate yourself first and work slowly to get used to the sensations and the sizes. You know your body better than any top could ever know it. You can feel things immediately and stop or slow down immediately.

That I can handle. It's when it's not me doing it that it causes the problem. To a point I've been able to handle it, but only to a point.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 13

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 5:57:20 PM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

SweetSarijane First let me say from the bottom of my heart I am so sorry to hear of your awful past. I can not fathom the physical and emotional trauma you have been forced to deal with. With a warm Masterful Hug I would make it all go away for you if I could, nobody should have to face what you did. From my heart to yours, I pull for you to heal.

DelRay,

Thank you so very much for that. It means a lot.

quote:

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I like the fun anal threads so much better.

*grinning* me too.

quote:

painful spinster muscle in your mind. (couldn’t resist) It is your want or need to be taken that will get you over the hump (Oh God I gotta stop ~snickering).

thank you, that just totally cracked me up! I needed that. It's good to lighten up a little and laugh. It helps.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to DelRey)

Post #: 14

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 5:59:58 PM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

May your jouney through these troubled water become smooth for you in the future.

Gomez my thanks to you.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to Gomez)

Post #: 15

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 6:01:42 PM

DelRey

Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

It's good to lighten up a little and laugh. It helps.

It sure does...

(in reply to SweetSarijane)

Post #: 16

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 7:03:25 PM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

It's good to lighten up a little and laugh. It helps.

It sure does...

oh yeah.........and 8-9 times out of 10 if it's laugh or cry, I'll laugh. Helped me through a whole lot. Great way to get through things sometimes.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to DelRey)

Post #: 17

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/5/2006 7:17:28 PM

Gomez

Posts: 51
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline

Your most welcome Sarah, I know from experience what the path is like.

_____________________________

Sometimes people would rather believe in a lie as its a lot easier and less complicated than the truth!

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Post #: 18

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/6/2006 1:40:11 AM

babybunny

Posts: 6
Joined: 1/2/2006
From: Louisiana
Status: offline

*hugs* I am sorry to hear of your painful experience. =(

If you are willing to get over it then you can. =) Like all things will take time. And time is not a bad thing. If you are with someone you love and trust then they are the perfect canidate to help you replace the horrible and shameful memories (and by no means was it your fault, remember that!) with beautiful, fond ones.

This you *your* life, make it something beautiful. You are the one in control here, even as a sub. Your mind is the only thing holding you prisoner. You *can* do this, but only if you want to. For some, it is easier to shove memories and fears into secret places, trying to forget them. But how much more wonderful it would be to confront them and remove their power of keeping you a captive to this fear and hurt.

I wish you the best of luck in this situation and hope you overcome this and find the great pleasure of anal with someone who respects you. <3

XoXoXo

(in reply to Gomez)

Post #: 19

RE: Anal sex issue - 1/6/2006 6:06:07 AM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

(and by no means was it your fault, remember that!)

It took a very long time, but I did finally realize and accept that. Was so very difficult to do.

quote:

For some, it is easier to shove memories and fears into secret places, trying to forget them.

I did that for so long. I think it made it even worse when I finally stopped doing that and confronted them. I ran away from them, avoided them, trying to protect myself from them and it just allowed them to build rather than just go away like I wanted them too.

Thank you so very much for your words, babybunny :)

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

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Post #: 20

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