Global Warming- need any more proof? (Full Version)

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redwoodgirl -> Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 1:24:16 PM)

How's about 78* in NorCal when is should be raining so hard we're practically swimming?
Totaly felt like eathquake weather this morning, talk about nervous [sm=hardlimit.gif]



JustDarkness -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 2:06:50 PM)

earthquake weather? (serious question)



Sanity -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 2:32:18 PM)


Who needs more proof than "earthquake weather".

I'm convinced!  [sm=offtopic2.gif]





colouredin -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 2:35:01 PM)

FR

it never got above zero degrees in london yesterday (average of seven for this time of year) wheres the warming huh?



mc1234 -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 2:37:45 PM)

colouredin - that's celsius, yes? 

We're chilly here in the northeast.  Normal, nothing crazy.  Colder weather coming later in the week, but it is January ...



ShiftedJewel -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 2:58:43 PM)

We've had some half assed warm weather.. if you consider 40 degrees warm. And we've had some really, REALLY cold weather. Seems like the winter started earlier and is colder most of the time.
 
And yes JustDarkness... in Cali they do have what they call "Earthquake season", generally what most people would call "Spring".
 
Jewel



colouredin -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 2:59:09 PM)

yup sorry that is celsius. Its been so so so so so so so cold here.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 3:03:41 PM)

~ Fast Reply ~
 
Man - some people are just not with it and are unaware of the lastest version of  'New-Speak'. It's NOT 'global warming', especially in chilly winters, its human influenced climate change. That way - hot or cold - someone can make money on the fear they've created with their pseudo, politically correct, version of 'science'.

Now you may be able to argue on historical facts, like how there have been many other documented historical cases of both global warming and cooling. Grapes used to grow in northern UK, and the Great Lakes used to be hockey rings; but who can argue the human influence, especially at the current infestation rate on the planet?

I came up with the perfect solution to this problem.

Since it's 'human influenced, the solution seems obvious. People should be allowed to sacrifice themselves for the 'cause'. The solution - legalized 'carbon offset' suicide - people could be 'martyrs' for their religion. The 'offset' would be the ultimate sacrifice to offer to the messiah of global warming, Al Gore, so he can rationalize flying around in his private jet.

Of course, if Israel got permission for a fly over or two, perhaps the need for personal sacrifice would have been handled on a more global scale.

It may be your "patriotic duty" to pay more taxes; but if you believe in this religion, its your duty to humanity to save the planet and sacrifice yourself. Seriously you'll be helping others and, considering the times ahead, you can save yourself a lot of unnecessary pain. In any event, you won't have to worry about if 1/2 of shoreline is lost as projected or even worry if that's a bad thing.



Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 3:31:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

earthquake weather? (serious question)

You are not aware of the phenomenon ?
It’s a fact, when a liberal “FEELS” two things are connected, then they are.
Enough said, I wasn’t going to reply until I saw your post about the Q.



Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 3:32:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Who needs more proof than "earthquake weather".

I'm convinced!  [sm=offtopic2.gif]

Thanks I needed that, was great!
its been a shitty day here, and ya made me laugh!
Thank you.





samboct -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 3:36:24 PM)

"That way - hot or cold - someone can make money on the fear they've created with their pseudo, politically correct, version of 'science'."

Umm- do you disagree with gravity too?  Or genetics?  Or brain damage caused by lead, a whole spectrum of ailments caused by mercury, change in pH of various aquifers due to acid rain because of sulfate releases into the atmosphere? 

Maybe a better analogy would be with evolution?  That famous scientist/President G.W. Bush still thinks that evolution is wrong.  Of course, that leaves "creation theory".  If you're happy with this explanation of the world, well, then clearly debate is pointless.  But the only thing "pseudo" about the science of global climate change at this point is the Bush administrations and your denial that a problem exists- the physics is in and there's no debate in the mainstream science community.

To the OP-

Please take a look at the difference between climate change and weather.  You might find it helpful.

Regards,

Sam 



Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 3:50:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

"That way - hot or cold - someone can make money on the fear they've created with their pseudo, politically correct, version of 'science'."

Umm- do you disagree with gravity too?  Or genetics?  Or brain damage caused by lead, a whole spectrum of ailments caused by mercury, change in pH of various aquifers due to acid rain because of sulfate releases into the atmosphere? 

Maybe a better analogy would be with evolution?  That famous scientist/President G.W. Bush still thinks that evolution is wrong.  Of course, that leaves "creation theory".  If you're happy with this explanation of the world, well, then clearly debate is pointless.  But the only thing "pseudo" about the science of global climate change at this point is the Bush administrations and your denial that a problem exists- the physics is in and there's no debate in the mainstream science community.

To the OP-

Please take a look at the difference between climate change and weather.  You might find it helpful.

Regards,

Sam 

There is no such thing as Global warming,
its Re warming and it has happend in the past and will cool again and Re heat .
FOLLOW the money and you will see that every one that claims that "global warming" is proven all want MORE money to study it.
its a scham and all about money.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/12/1218_earthbelch.html

Ours is NOT the only planet heating up .
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/05/23/proof-of-global-warming/

so again its a SCAM!




Mercnbeth -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 4:11:40 PM)

quote:

Umm- do you disagree with gravity too? 

sam,
When you drop a rock in 10,000 BC or today it falls. Genetics has verifiable data, you don't get a sheep when you bred two dogs. Ingest enough mercury and/or lead and you die or your brain gets affected and you start believing in things, like global warming.

However, you're mixing science fact with religious belief. Put ANY climate model and it can't account for Renaissance Europe or Roman Era UK. When you can put it in the same context as gravity - get back to me. Otherwise, I won't stop you from your 'faith based' religion.

The difference between science and faith is it always comes out the same way regardless of party affiliation or agenda.



samboct -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 4:18:40 PM)

"There is no such thing as Global warming,
its Re warming and it has happend in the past and will cool again and Re heat .
FOLLOW the money and you will see that every one that claims that "global warming" is proven all want MORE money to study it.
its a scham and all about money. "

I posted the most recent science I'm familiar with on this topic here-(that covers the solar variation hypothesis.)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1348357/mpage_4/tm.htm  post 66.

Scientists develop a hypothesis, and develop a way to test that hypothesis by gathering data.  Feel free to watch Mythbusters- they do a pretty good job.

I'm not aware of any global warming/cooling function based on dollars.  And this may come as a surprise to you- but scientists are human and do need to eat, pay rent, buy clothes, screw- all those normal human functions, so yes, scientists are going to want to get paid for doing science.  Do you think that only independently wealthy people can do good science?

Sam



variation30 -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 4:51:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: redwoodgirl

How's about 78* in NorCal when is should be raining so hard we're practically swimming?
Totaly felt like eathquake weather this morning, talk about nervous [sm=hardlimit.gif]


...actually, I need a lot more 'proof' than this.



variation30 -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 4:55:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
 
Man - some people are just not with it and are unaware of the lastest version of  'New-Speak'. It's NOT 'global warming', especially in chilly winters, its human influenced climate change. That way - hot or cold - someone can make money on the fear they've created with their pseudo, politically correct, version of 'science'.


looks like someond didn't see Al Gore's super scientific movie. I mean, polar bears are floating off on chunks of ice and drowning!!! what more proof of global warming do you need?!

but yeah, the 'science' behind global warming is so hillariously bad that I'm amazed people still believe in it. fortunately I wasn't alive for the global cooling scare a few decades ago, as I can't deal with a hysterical, reactionary population that is inflamed by pseudo-scientific rhetoric more than once in a lifetime.



Termyn8or -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 5:02:44 PM)

I only skimmed this thread because I have something to say.

People seem to confuse climate and weather, while they are two different things. If it gets suddenly warmer somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic, it can cause a drastically cold winter, or even an useasinable condition somewhere else, perhaps even ten thousand miles away. All it has to do is subtley change the course of some trans-Atlantic winds and this can happen.

There is alot more going on in our atmosphere than many people realize. First of all not everyone thinks three dimensionally, but there is convection all over the place. That must be taken into consideration. A little bit less cloud cover one day, seven thousand miles away could slightly deflect the lower winds by some air convecting upwards. This will cause a slight depression in air pressure. If a path of anything is deflected far from it's destination, through the great distance it becomes very significant. There is more to meteorology than looking at an almanac.

So just because it happens to be cold or hot somewhere really means nothing. That's right, the sky is not falling. Although they are now arguing over we have global warming or an ice age coming, but the sky is not falling, I just wish they would make up their mind.

T



variation30 -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 5:05:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

"That way - hot or cold - someone can make money on the fear they've created with their pseudo, politically correct, version of 'science'."

Umm- do you disagree with gravity too?  Or genetics?  Or brain damage caused by lead, a whole spectrum of ailments caused by mercury, change in pH of various aquifers due to acid rain because of sulfate releases into the atmosphere? 

Maybe a better analogy would be with evolution?  That famous scientist/President G.W. Bush still thinks that evolution is wrong.  Of course, that leaves "creation theory".  If you're happy with this explanation of the world, well, then clearly debate is pointless.  But the only thing "pseudo" about the science of global climate change at this point is the Bush administrations and your denial that a problem exists- the physics is in and there's no debate in the mainstream science community.


so if I were to question the validity of a study based upon computer models that factor things like the sun's energy (the most important factor in our weather and climate) as a static number (global constant) and ignore the fact that the sun is a very dynamic entity...I would be equated to a creationist? if I were to ask the question 'well...what is the ideal temperature for the planet and why is that the ideal temperature' I am equated to someone who does not believe in the double helix? if I were to question the validty of...scientists who have a lot to gain from propogating this myth for grant money (a few institutes are getting caught fudging the numbers) would I be equated to a holocaust denier?

what about a model that we are unable to recreate and test, that utilizes static numbers for dynamic entities, that ignores or simply cannot recognize many variables contributing to the study, and that repeatedly ignores contradictory data as outliers or mistakes do you find so objective or scientific?

perhaps you make up for your lack of knowledge concerning epistemology or your lack of ability to think independently with your fervent love for pop-science. if that's what does it for you, fantastic...just don't parade it about as something it is not.



awmslave -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 5:09:26 PM)

quote:

How's about 78* in NorCal when is should be raining so hard we're practically swimming?

Global warming means average Earth atmosphere temperature near the surface. Melting permafrost or glaciers are valid pro arguments because they are the result of larger scale temperature increases, local weather is not. Personally, I think, if we can not trust official peer previewed science (some here suggest they lie for money), we are in deep trouble and the Empire is officially dead.



ncprincess -> RE: Global Warming- need any more proof? (1/12/2009 5:14:31 PM)

I remember my 10th grade history teacher telling us the seasons change every so many 1000's of years (something like that...10th grade was a while back...)



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