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RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 5:35:21 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
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From: Davis, Ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
slave - one who enjoys being owned
servant - one who enjoys performing service
submissive - one who enjoys being controlled
masochist - one who enjoys physical or emotional pain
bottom - a slave, servant, submissive, or masochist

owner - one who enjoys owning another human
master - one who enjoys being serverd
dominant - one who enjoys controlling another human
sadist - one who enjoys inflicting physical or emotional pain
top - a owner, master, dominant, or sadist


Yours,
Taggard



I very much like your definintions, however I must differ in one place-sadism and masochism. In my experience, top and bottom roles have very little corolation to ones role in power dynamics. I know several sadistic bottoms and at least two masochistic tops.

I know these are "to you" definitions, but I think that classing all sadists as tops does a disservice to the wonderfully sadistic bottoms out there ;)

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RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 6:14:00 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		So where do bondage bunnies fit in? Or age players? Or medical fetishists? Or foot fetishists? Or...or...or.... ?

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RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 7:01:47 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Or sadistic bondage bunnies, for that matter. You think that's what the Monte Python crew ran into? "It's just a little bunny rabbit!!"

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RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 7:08:12 PM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA
So where do bondage bunnies fit in? Or age players? Or medical fetishists? Or foot fetishists? Or...or...or.... ?



The medical fetish crew can come over and visit me. haha. One of the benefits of having a close relative whos an obgyn. Bought all sorts of fun things through him. Centerpiece is my exam table...beauty!

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 7:12:35 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Ok, trying to imagine a sadistic bottom here. Kind of like Lucy with the football maybe? Pulling it away right when Charlie Brown goes to kick it?

OK, I'll let you flog me, but you have to wear these potholders and this apron with nothing under. What? Yes in public. You want to flog me don't you? Well OK then. Oh, and one more thing, tie this leather thong that's hanging from the handle of the flogger around your balls. Yes, I know it's short, but you'll be careful. No, this isn't negotiable. You want to flog me don't you? OK. Yes, that's a Margret Thatcher mask. Of course you have to wear it. You want to flog me don't you? OK.

You know, I think I'd pay good money to see that.

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RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 7:45:03 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I very much like your definintions, however I must differ in one place-sadism and masochism. In my experience, top and bottom roles have very little corolation to ones role in power dynamics. I know several sadistic bottoms and at least two masochistic tops.



But you snipped a very important part of my definitions: "All (or some (or none)) of these desires could exist in the same person to various degrees." I see no problem with a sadistic bottom. They are someone who is a "slave, sub, maso, or servant" and also a sadist.

What other impulse am I missing that would make a bottom a bottom? (not being defensive or sarcastic here. Defeinitions are really of interest to me, and I am working on improving my own all the time. I would love feedback from everyone on this.)

Thanks,
Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 8/11/2004 7:51:08 PM >

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My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

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RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 7:50:25 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA
So where do bondage bunnies fit in? Or age players? Or medical fetishists? Or foot fetishists? Or...or...or.... ?


Bondage, in my eyes, falls into the control category. Someone who enjoyed the control of bondage falls into submissive. Same for age players. I don't know enough about medical fetishists to comment, but for foot and other kinds of fetishisists, I think of them as outside the bounds of BDSM. If they enjoy their fetish, and other aspects of of BDSM, then they are whatever other aspects of BDSM they enojy make them.

Personally, I am consider myself to be mostly owner and master with a pinch of dom, a hint of sadist, and a heavy dose of paperwork fetish.

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 7:52:53 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
What other impulse am I missing that would make a bottom a bottom? (not being defensice or sarcastic here. Defeinitions are really of interest to me, and I am working on improving my own all the time. I would love feedback from everyone on this.)


Someone who likes to be tied up.
The "little" half of an age play couple.
Someone who likes to be the examinee in medical scenes.
Someone who enjoys humiliation.
A foot fetishist.

There are a LOT of people who wouldn't necessarily fit into any of your categories. Things were much simpler (at least for me) when top/bottom were used as umbrella terms, basically equivalent to pitcher/catcher.

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Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 7:56:08 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
Bondage, in my eyes, falls into the control category. Someone who enjoyed the control of bondage falls into submissive.


Maybe in your eyes, but not in everyone's. I know people who love bondage simply for the aesthetics, having nothing to do with control. My husband loved to tie me up in rope and just look at me like that (when I'd let him). I wasn't being controlled. Is a rope dress about control? What's being controlled? Bondage doesn't necessarily mean restraint, and people who enjoy bondage aren't necessarily submissive.

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-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

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RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 8:48:33 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA

Maybe in your eyes, but not in everyone's. I know people who love bondage simply for the aesthetics, having nothing to do with control. My husband loved to tie me up in rope and just look at me like that (when I'd let him). I wasn't being controlled. Is a rope dress about control? What's being controlled? Bondage doesn't necessarily mean restraint, and people who enjoy bondage aren't necessarily submissive.


I totally see what you are saying, and I absolutly love and appreciate your input. You are that wonderful exception that makes all of my pretty black and white rules fly out the window.

Ok, here is how I deal with your exceptions, I place them outside of BDSM. Someone who enjoys bondage simple for how it looks on them and not for any of the control it places over them (and I do have a bit of trouble believeing they don't enjoy both aspects just a bit, but I am certainly not going to doubt your word) is a bondage aesthitic fetishist, and not into the power exchange at all....hmmm...interesting thought there.

Perhaps there are really two types of BDSM participants, power exchagers (owners/slaves, masters/servants, doms/subs) and fetishists (maso/sado (pain fetishists), and the other types you describe). Of course I am a predominantly a power exchanger, so I have a bit of difficulty in understanding the fetish side from a personal point of view.

I will have to think more on this...thank you so much for the input!

Yours,
Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 8/11/2004 8:51:13 PM >

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 8:49:40 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline 		grrr...quote instead of edit.

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 8/11/2004 8:53:46 PM >

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 9:48:12 PM   
Laura


Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		I agree with Taggard's definitions but for Top and bottom. Those (to me) were for people into hard core play styles. The S&M in BDSM. Bondage included but taken for granted as the real interest was whippings, torture and more extreme situations.

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RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 9:55:22 PM   
Laura


Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
What other impulse am I missing that would make a bottom a bottom? (not being defensice or sarcastic here. Defeinitions are really of interest to me, and I am working on improving my own all the time. I would love feedback from everyone on this.)


Someone who likes to be tied up.
The "little" half of an age play couple.
Someone who likes to be the examinee in medical scenes.
Someone who enjoys humiliation.
A foot fetishist.

There are a LOT of people who wouldn't necessarily fit into any of your categories. Things were much simpler (at least for me) when top/bottom were used as umbrella terms, basically equivalent to pitcher/catcher.


I think of age play, foot fetishes and medical exams as individual fetishes. Not outside of BDSM but not quite part of it either. There are so man fetishes, endless lists of them could be created. I have my favourites. But the literal meaning of BDSM is bondage, domination, sadism and massocism (I know my spelling isn't right). The fetishes don't really fit in there as most don't require B D S or M. I think fetishes stand alone. Labelling one person a top or a bottom isn't necessary. I can have a guy fetish himself blind over my feet but I don't feel I'm being Domme about it.

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RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 10:08:35 PM   
Laura


Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillserveu

I asume you want "to me" definitions. I can be wrong by a book, but can't be wrong about what I think.

Top-Bottom describes BDSM play activity that will not leave the bedroom. If she gets tied up and spanked by her "Master" then watches TV while he does the dishes she was being a bottom and he was being a top.

If he watches the game while she does the dishes naked, she is a sub and he is a Dom.


That would only work if they were lifestyle. Not every sub or Dom is going to do it 24 hours a day and some might only choose to work their sub in the bedroom. I think it's the actions themselves, not the locations. Otherwise how would you label those who like to do it outside the home, let alone the bedroom?

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RE: Definitions - 8/11/2004 11:02:15 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA

So where do bondage bunnies fit in? Or age players? Or medical fetishists? Or foot fetishists? Or...or...or.... ?



Bondage bunnies are obviously categorized by the wiggly nose that is nicely complimented by their wiggly bum. They are clad in the most elegant of green burlap that signifies their bondage bunniness...


(okok...nuff...it's soooo nice to be an epsilon...Gammas have to work so very hard...sooo much better to be an epsilon)


~Thorns

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RE: Definitions - 8/12/2004 9:03:11 AM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD
Ive been on boards
online for 16 years and have seen
where many of them go


If you've been on boards or mailing lists that long, then you've probably realised that everything that could be asked, probably already has been. You've probablyalso already realised that not everyone has the time or inclination to read through all the old posts before they ask their question, and that it's not compulsory to respond to everything that's posted.

We're all new at something some time or another. Asking questions is a damn good way to learn. Chastising someone because they're new and may not be aware of the search function isn't, in my experience, a good learning method. YMMV, of course.

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RE: Definitions - 8/12/2004 12:28:44 PM   
SentForu


Posts: 303
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Middle Tennessee
Status: offline 		kiki, exactly. Besides, when asking questions, people seem to rediscuss things. Then, you really get different perspectives. I'm sure this question has been asked over and over again. Just look at all the different opinions though. That's how you learn.


Ya'll take care,

Myra

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Definitions - 8/12/2004 1:20:57 PM   
WayHome


Posts: 237
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline 		I like the use of "Top" and "bottom" in the original sense of "pitcher" and "catcher"

My understanding is that the original usage came from the gay leather community (as so much of this does) and they simply used the terms top and bottom to denote givers and recievers which may or may not include a power exchange dynamic. A top is the one "doing" and a bottom is the one "done to" which is completely sepparate from dom and sub.

Here are some good examples:

--A "bondage bunny" who likes to be tied up and then escape and who gives explicit direction about how they want to be tied. They do give a little power to the one tying, but that is not the essential part of the activity. It's not really much power exchange but she is "on the bottom"

--Me getting flogged. I'm a dominant and never sub, but I have been flogged several times by Domme friends. There was no power exchange at all but there was sensation. I mostly did it to learn and to know what it felt like and therefore be a better flogger. I also got off on seeing how much I could take. I even found the sensations pleasing in a certain sense and got an erection. They had some power over me but that wasn't really a significant part of the scene for either of us. "OK, that's not bad. Now try out the braided one on my upper back... A little lower. Thanks" Not something you would expect to hear from a sub, but perfectly reasonable from a bottom.

--A certain Domme friend getting vaginally fisted at a play party. THAT was a great party! Anyway, I once observed a scene wherin a bi Domme was vaginally fisted by another bi Domme/Dominatrix. The one doing the fisting (top) was into domination and humiliation quite a bit but there was none of that in this scene. She had a strong fetish about fisting (and "mad skills" as she put it) but didn't have any of her submissives at the party. The energy in the house was very strong and she got that NEED to fist somebody. She was giving sensation ("doing" therfore "Topping") but she wasn't really dominating. It just didn't have that sort of power exchange energy. It did have some serious sexual energy! It was funny to see the straight women start fearfully approaching her to partake themselves. That was about Domming them because there was a strong element of power and humiliation knowing these women felt dirty and were grossed out by the self-proclaimed "Nasty Fat Bitch" but were under the spell of her sexual skills anyway. So then she was topping, domming, and being a sadist, though the "pain" she was getting off on was mostly emotional.

Does that make sense?

< Message edited by WayHome -- 8/12/2004 1:22:39 PM >

(in reply to SentForu)
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