RE: When Trust Is Broken (Full Version)

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DominaSmartass -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 3:40:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

You have no idea what you're talking about. People aren't robots, we're individuals that deal with situations according to our life's experiences.


Maybe I'm missing something here but I thought CatdeMedici's response was calling the dom's behavior "arrogant, domineering, and unacceptable." She's hardly wrong as far as I can tell. But correct me if I'm reading it wrong.




CalifChick -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 3:49:56 PM)

I'm not sure where the "shame and humiliation" are coming from either, since she was assaulted.  It is because she trusted someone that in hindsight, actually threw up red flags or in some way gave her reason not to trust him?  I'm grasping at straws here.

I think when the source of the shame is discovered, then the journey to healing can begin.



Cali





marie2 -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 4:02:01 PM)

  I'm rarely one to pull the therapy card, but given what you described of her state of mind, it sounds almost as if she needs to be de-programmed.  And it may be more than what a good friend is qualified for.  Beyond that, I would just be there for her, call her often, let her know she can vent anytime, continue to talk logic to her and try to convince her that this isn't her fault.  And depending on my relationship to the sub in question, I would also consider interfering by having a talk with the "dom" myself, and I would try to get him to contact her to apologize, re-assure her that it wasn't her fault, and take responsibility for what he has done.  Unfortunately, in her state of mind as it is at present, he may be the only one who can convince her of that.




MistressLamia -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 4:18:56 PM)

As a Dominant I would never deviate from an agreed scenerio without discussion. To do so would be wrong. I do understand humans make mistakes so I have to wonder why this Dominant did this? Was it intentional or did a seriously stupid (human) mistake happen here? If it was intentional then this was criminal even though I do not believe it can be prosecuted. That the sub is so very upset indicates there was more to it than is seen. People usually are not this effected without reason.




scarlethiney -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 4:53:36 PM)

I'm sorry I don't mean to sound rude but you do possess common sense do you not???  First just because you trust someone and he calls himself a dominant does not mean he has any business or knowledge of making cuts on someone.  It does not mean he is responsible or safe or sane.
You have allowed someone to cut on your body who knew you were afraid of it. He did this anyway causing you great pain and I'm sure fear.
I would say that you are lucky that you aren't permanently injured and that you now have a choice to not put yourself in that position ever again because you think someone who is dominant has a right to use you in such a way.
Common sense and self preservation should kick in and tell  you this is not a person you need or want to trust with your safety or  your heart.

scarlet




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 5:08:05 PM)

quote:

How does a person process so many emotions when something of this nature has such a dramatic effect?


Honestly, I treat situations like this in the same way that I treat someone who has experienced an assault -- Provide comfort, make sure their wounds are properly tended so that they leave minimal scarring to remind the person of the incident, and have hir speak with a counselor knowledgeable in both BDSM/body modification (including scarification/cutting) and sexual/physical assault.

Over time, encourage your friend to get out and do things -- the tendency for many folks who are attacked in visible ways like stabbing and cutting is to withdraw, the scars providing a visible reminder every time they look in the mirror or try to care for the wounds about what happened. Encouraging them to get out and find ways to move beyond their victimhood is really, really important in helping them get through the process without losing themselves.

Needless to say, an individual who goes through something like this is going to be very slow to trust in the future -- anyone dealing with hir later on is going to need to be willing and able to be implicitly honorable and extremely patient. Time is the greatest healer, but it is very individualized. My daughter, who was brutalized almost exactly a month ago, took her first modeling contract (a photo session in which her scars will be visible) this week -- I was surprised at how much of her own power she held on to given the circumstance. On the other hand, another friend of ours was slapped during a scene over a -decade- ago, even after the person she was with knowing that for all the 10 years they'd been together, slapping was a forbidden territory, and she -still- won't enter into a long-term relationship where she would have to submit and run the risk of someone doing something that she was unable to tolerate... there are no -visible- scars from that fateful evening, but she can't seem to get past the internal ones.

You're doing the right thing just being there for her, and letting her tell you what she needs. Sometimes, that's the best kind of friend to have when your world gets turned upside down.




MsFlutter -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 5:32:02 PM)

*FR*
 
A pre-negotiated boundary was crossed.  The Dominant has shown they are irresponsible and cannot be trusted. 
 
The sub needs to move forward and be cared for.




DesFIP -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 5:40:48 PM)

She was abused. I would try to find her a therapist who specialized in such issues. This is a form of date rape, she thought she knew the guy and could trust him, and found out differently. A therapist who treats abuse victims is the best person for her to see.




missturbation -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 6:38:12 PM)

I had a similar experience a few years ago when i first became involved in the lifestyle. Though i had never 'played' with one i was terrified of canes. I eventually after some careful discussion agreed that my Dom at the time could use one on me. The agreement was that it would be very gently on my ass building up over time. It all started out good until he hit me a little harder than i could handle. I asked to stop and his response was to hit me quite hard across the ankle bone with it. He tried to say that now i had felt the ultimate pain from a cane i did not need to be afraid anymore.
Anyhow i basically waited for him to go to sleep, then got dressed, called a taxi and left. I never spoke to him about this and i never saw him again in a relationship way. He is still around on my local scene.
I basically talked it through with friends and they helped me see that this was not my fault. I felt at the time i had failed to protect myself, trusted someone who i shouldn't have. I felt my judgement was all to pot and that i picked partners badly.
All i can suggest is trying to show her that she isn't in the wrong. Make sure that she understands that she did not consent to what this Dom did and that is where the crime / fault lies, with him.




Jeptha -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 7:52:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

...A week later you still have not been able to speak or face your dominant. You retreat and blame yourself. You feel a failure.

How does a person process so many emotions when something of this nature has such a dramatic effect?

I don't know ~ When you have someone who internalizes stuff like that and makes other people's transgressions their fault, then you have a very tricky situation on your hands it seems.

Because you can tell them the truth as you see it, and they might acknowledge it intellectually, but it won't feel real to them. And they'll probably not be able to protect themselves or protest effectively next time, either.

I think you have to have them get clear in their minds about what happened, and what reasonable expectations are and all that, and exhort them to confront in unequivocal terms the party that wronged them. And deliver consequences for it.

I would like to hear other's thoughts about it.

But I'm no expert. I think the tendency will be for them to go with the feelings of shame, etc., that they've always had, as it feels "right" to them.

A spot of therapy might be a good thing.

PS: MissMorrigan, it sounds like this happened to you, not your friend, in your original post. That might be confusing to some, especially if they are "fast replying".




Celene -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 8:30:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

They had a negotiated scene; he deviated from it.
It became assault.

Be there for her.


Yeah, that works.
Why talk it to death and then blow the person off completely?
If you are going to "play", at least play by the "rules".

edited to add:
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

Personally, i would be madder than hell!!!

I cannot help but wonder about her background. I realize she had/has trust issues, but what is causing the level of shame she is feeling?
Is it possible the shame is a smoke screen for the anger that she is not allowing herself to feel?



yeah!! what she said

(the lack of details is vague at best)




MDS666 -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 9:00:42 PM)

As a Dom, Sadist, I would never do that. I hope that was the last time you seen him.




MasterLark -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 9:13:20 PM)

There are so many red flags in your friend's situation of what the so-called jerk of a Dominant did and didn't do, I can't count 'em all. Others have noted them.

Your question is: how does your friend process so many emotions when something of this nature has such a dramatic effect? She was horrified her trust was breached, horrified by being cut in the way that was the most exceptionally painful, she has trust issues of long standing, she had virtually no aftercare and she blames herself for it happening...and perhaps more.

Your friend first needs to be protected from the Dominant and knows she is being protected.

She cannot process all the emotions roiling in her at once. So whatever is "on top" needs to be dealt with first. From your postings, it sounds like the blaming herself for it happening is on top, and that she failed her Dominant. I do not know her personality or history but you do. She needs to hear from either another Master/Dominant or a sub/slave she trusts. That person needs to authoritatively tell her (not just inform or educate, since she is not in a place for that yet, due to the shock) she did not fail her Dominant NOR HERSELF one whit, but that the Dominant was the one who failed as a Dominant. This is new information to her and so it will take awhile for her to take it on board. The key here is an authority she trusts countervails the "false truth" in her head.

Once she knows she is protected and safe, and accepts to whatever degree that the horror was not caused by her but the Dominant, then you can move through other swirling emotions, emotions that may seesaw and contradict each other (eg i loved him, i hated what happened etc). Sometimes a good way to release these emotions is having her writing freely and without restriction whatever she is feeling, whether they make sense or not, just write as much as she needs to write. There is an exercise some writers do to de-clutter their minds, called Morning Pages. First thing in the morning, before doing anything else at all, they sit down and write whatever comes to mind and are tasked to fill three blank pages, and then stop. It doesn't need to make sense, nor be grammatically correct or spelled correctly. What it does is to clear the mind of the "clutter" and enable sharper thoughts and feelings to emerge later. This might be helpful for her for now.

Trust is rebuilt slowly and in small steps, patiently. There are ways to do this and they would be worth doing. Help her let time heal her by not having her isolated but engaged in fun and special moments with you and others. She needs to be included, but included in a way she is taken care of but not babysat. Time provides perspective.

At the right time, she needs to re-learn how things might be different if she had learned how to trust and act differently in a BDSM situation. Of course this is entangled in whatever previous trust issues she has had, which we don't know about. A prime learning is at least this: because he is a Master/Dom doesn't mean she has no brain, common sense, or respect and doesn't mean that he is by definition always right, entitled, and blameless.

She needs hugs for no reason whatsoever for many days to come; give them.




lostgirl83 -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 9:25:56 PM)

That kind of thing can be life threatening... You trust someone to tie you up, gag you, and basically take all control from you... thats the whole point to the situation. When someone violates that trust it takes away that safe feeling. It could have turned into a serious situation. What if she was literally so terrified (assuming it wasn't a serious cut but still...) that she went into shock? What if he didn't "eventually stop" It starts off as something small like that and then escalates. I understand the feeling of "why couldn't I do this for him?" and disappointment in oneself, but if she isn't smart about it, she may not be around to serve anyone. As hard as it is, she should likely avoid that guy in the future. Work on her own self esteem, remind her the situation is his fault, not hers. When she is ready, she can find someone else. There's too many safe and sane men out there who are willing to follow what she would be comfortable with for her to put herself at risk like that!




chezzy71 -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 9:44:25 PM)

Well miss Morrigan with all due respect,to say the sub needs to hash this out with her dom..well quite frankly..you are all wet.As far as i am concerned he committed a rime and i'd have his ass arrested..period end of story.




MissMorrigan -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 11:24:17 PM)

Dear Jeptha, I can assure you that this has NOT and never has happened to me. This occurred to a dear friend of mine (and
not my own submissive partner, I hasten to add, as it is  possible that thought may also have crossed others' minds, too - he's tucked up in bed and snoring contentedly. He and I do not make agreements such as the one in the OP as there is no need to in our relationshiip (I am not advocating this for others).

Thank you to all who have posted, including you, this is just a hit/run quickie from me and I will be back on a little later to reply to all those (including you) who have taken the time to reply to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeptha
PS: MissMorrigan, it sounds like this happened to you, not your friend, in your original post. That might be confusing to some, especially if they are "fast replying".




MissMorrigan -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/16/2009 11:40:53 PM)

Dear Lostgirl, thank you for replying. To be honest, and I can only guess at this stage, it is likely she did go into shock shortly after and was left to process this by herself with little to no aftercare (from what I gather). You are very perceptive/insightful and it's reassuring to know that you understand where she is mentally speaking, in that she is blaming herself for what has happened insofar as failure to not be able to do what it was he wanted. It has hit her even harder because they have been in a relationship for approximately two years and until just over a week ago, he had earned her trust to the point she was willing to explore this with him. I'm going to see if I can get her to agree to see a kink-friendly counsellor as I agree she needs (in the long term) to work on her self esteem issues.
quote:

ORIGINAL: lostgirl83
That kind of thing can be life threatening... You trust someone to tie you up, gag you, and basically take all control from you... thats the whole point to the situation. When someone violates that trust it takes away that safe feeling. It could have turned into a serious situation. What if she was literally so terrified (assuming it wasn't a serious cut but still...) that she went into shock? What if he didn't "eventually stop" It starts off as something small like that and then escalates. I understand the feeling of "why couldn't I do this for him?" and disappointment in oneself, but if she isn't smart about it, she may not be around to serve anyone. As hard as it is, she should likely avoid that guy in the future. Work on her own self esteem, remind her the situation is his fault, not hers. When she is ready, she can find someone else. There's too many safe and sane men out there who are willing to follow what she would be comfortable with for her to put herself at risk like that!




ForAlways -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/17/2009 4:46:52 AM)

This has happened to me, although not with "knife" play.

I trusted him, he broke that trust.  I blamed myself and felt unworthy.  I tried again.  I trusted him, he broke that trust AGAIN. I realized he was nor more a "dominant" than I was and I gave him his leave.

And, yes, counseling is your friend's best route.  I think it's great, MM that you're helping her through this.  Right now she needs someone who understands and won't judge.

It's easy for those outside to say "he doesn't deserve HER" but from the inside, that issue is more clouded in her eyes.  I wish her a speedy recovery from this physical and mental/emotional assault.




PeonForHer -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/17/2009 4:53:44 AM)

For the long term, and when emotions have subsided a little:

A submissive has no choice but to become assertive. 




notevensure -> RE: When Trust Is Broken (1/17/2009 5:01:53 AM)

Once the trust is broken it is very difficult to get it back...in my case it never came back. I guess it all depends how deep that trust is and if it is something you can get over...




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