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RE: Total panic - 1/19/2009 7:06:03 AM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
I couldnt communicate with him other than to utter the safeword. I needed out in a second not two and I couldn't give him time to consider if this was real panic or not. My safeword ensured an instant end to the panic.

Okay, once again I have to say that you were still focused on communicating to him that there was a problem...and I still have to say that if you had never heard of such a thing as a safe word you would still have had the same focus. You would have just used a different word.

I am so not wrapping my head around this...

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RE: Total panic - 1/19/2009 7:53:39 AM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
I couldnt communicate with him other than to utter the safeword. I needed out in a second not two and I couldn't give him time to consider if this was real panic or not. My safeword ensured an instant end to the panic.

Okay, once again I have to say that you were still focused on communicating to him that there was a problem...and I still have to say that if you had never heard of such a thing as a safe word you would still have had the same focus. You would have just used a different word.

I am so not wrapping my head around this...

Ok let me try and black and white this a bit more

I play rough and hard. I scream and shout at him to stop, I plead with him to stop, I beg him to stop but then thats all part of what we do, what we are into.
I did not have time to take breath and say 'hang on a minute darling this is all getting a bit too much' I didn't scream stop because that is what he is used to and would of taken no notice. I used a word, it was a singular word that took little effort amidst my panic and a word that I knew would stop everything as quickly as I needed it to stop. It didn't take any thinking about because I knew about it and so it was foremost in my mind just like an emergency number would be.
In blind panic you don't have time to negotiate or hope that they have understood.

I have taken imense pain in the past and often reached the point of nearly safewording. I have gone over in my mind 'ok if he does that again Ill use the word'. In a situation like this I have time to think, I even perhaps have time to explain that its all too much but this situation was hugely different. I honestly believe even now in the cold light of day, if I hadn't been able to get out of that situation as quickly as I did, I would of died of shock.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 1/19/2009 7:55:26 AM >

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RE: Total panic - 1/19/2009 7:57:12 AM

CatdeMedici

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Wow this is a great topic, ( well not at jaz's expense though)---I think one of the big things we miss when we do or talk about play/scenes whatever you want to call them--is that once we do a certain "scene" that wow factor will always be present-- we have expectations that we will ALWAYS react the same way everytime, our outcomes will always be the same way all the time, the highs will be the same and the lows will be the same--not true. We are not plug in dolls--we do not react the same way all the time---outside influences attack the psyche, emotional and physical issues leak in--I don't care how well you may think you know your partner, you can't see through them and know what mix of issues may be present at all times and to think you do IMHO is foolhardy.

IMHO safewords should always be in place--for the very reason jaz stated, that one time that the Dominant is not omnipotent, or the behavior is indeed different, or some fluke happens and something goes awry.

And we cannot expect that each and everytime we do a scene, the reaction will always be the same.

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RE: Total panic - 1/19/2009 8:24:10 AM

RCdc

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Erin, I think what jaz is saying is that she regularly shouts resistance during play and so shouting resistance would be not ignored but misunderstood and that having the ability to make a full blown sentance might be an issue as well so for her the safeword was needed.

I disagree with some who suggest that safewords should be in place in a generalistic tone. Nothing 'should' be anything apart from what you want in your personal preference. The other issue is that using and relying on a safeword just because a dominant may make an error or not see that there is an issue a false 'hope' because the s-type could just as much make an error or miss an issue and be unable not only to say 'I am about to vomit please stop' but also unable to shout 'safeword'.

Shit happens. People need to be rsponsible for their actions and get off the guilt trips they place themselves or others under because of an error, regardless of safewords being used or not. It's not fair to the relationship or each other.

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RE: Total panic - 1/19/2009 8:25:29 AM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

We are not plug in dolls--we do not react the same way all the time---outside influences attack the psyche, emotional and physical issues leak in--

These words jumped right out at me because its not something that I have ever given a lot of thought to ... but now you have me thinking. There are a lot of outside influences going on in our lives at this present time that are effecting our psyche, our emotions and our thoughts on life and its values.
We are closer than we have ever been but our emotions are at an all time high right now and its those very emotions that probably made us play so hard and so roughly.

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RE: Total panic - 1/19/2009 9:05:49 AM

DominaSmartass

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I am not a huge proponent of safewords, in fact I don't use them at all unless the bottom brings it up during negotiation of the scene. This is because I, like others, would rather the person I'm playing with just tell me in plain English that there is something wrong and depending on the type of relationship I'm in with the person bottoming, they may or may not have a prescribed way to phrase their feelings to me, but one way or the other I expect them to communicate it. Then - again depending on our relationship - it is up to me to decide how to proceed or not proceed with the information I'm given.

But there are situations where I believe safewords come in handy and that is any scenario in which resistance, fighting back, and "nonconsent" are part of the scene. As you say below:

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Is it fair on him to expect that even through an intense struggle when arms, legs and even teeth are lashing out at him, that he knows when I have truly had enough?

I say no, none of us are mind readers. I don't have a lot of experience playing with people who fight back, hence why I don't play with safewords generally. But if I knew someone did struggle and protest I would make sure there was some way to communicate a real problem as opposed to everything else.

My opinion on the use of safewords is that their use/non-use should be governed by whichever is the easiest, most clear, most concise method of communicating a problem, taking into consideration the people involved, their familiarity with one another, and the type of play happening. The choice to use or not use a safeword should not be seen as a measure of how good, close, or real a relationship is but as a practical decision based on practical factors.

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RE: Total panic - 1/19/2009 9:16:21 AM

RCdc

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Jaz, I just remembered, you were really sick last week wasn't you? As well as emotional and outside influences, you need to consider that your body was .low.low.low. I don't know if you were on antibiotics or not, but you said yourself you were feeling really bad. You have to take care of yourself and even if you feel ok, you have to understand that having 'flu will play a big part in how your body responds. It might be that you need to recover longer or rebuild your system up before playing so intensely. Just a thought. Just a simple thing like taking probiotics or live pbs after medication can help. Just a thought to consider as you are asking.

the.dark.

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RE: Total panic - 1/19/2009 9:29:49 AM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Jaz, I just remembered, you were really sick last week wasn't you? As well as emotional and outside influences, you need to consider that your body was .low.low.low. I don't know if you were on antibiotics or not, but you said yourself you were feeling really bad. You have to take care of yourself and even if you feel ok, you have to understand that having 'flu will play a big part in how your body responds. It might be that you need to recover longer or rebuild your system up before playing so intensely. Just a thought. Just a simple thing like taking probiotics or live pbs after medication can help. Just a thought to consider as you are asking.

the.dark.

Your right. Illness takes the wind out of sales and even when we are feeling back on top (excuse the pun) we may well not be ready for the rough stuff.

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RE: Total panic - 1/19/2009 10:15:49 AM

DesFIP

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I can't talk at all when I have a panic attack. Thankfully we don't usually do scenes that will involve me doing the things I do when I panic.

One thing I have learned is that in the beginning it was because of hitting emotional triggers that I didn't know were there. However these days when something like this happens it is almost always followed by me getting sick the next day. So if I'm not feeling up to par but don't know what's wrong, I just tell him that and we tend to skip play until I feel better.

Since you had been branded the previous night, I imagine it is a leftover from what that did to you physically. As long as you aren't shrinking away from his touch, and are able to discuss it calmly, he will get over it also. Because you know he didn't mean to do this to you, and you two should spend some time today just cuddling and reconnecting.

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RE: Total panic - 1/19/2009 12:15:35 PM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I can't talk at all when I have a panic attack. Thankfully we don't usually do scenes that will involve me doing the things I do when I panic.

One thing I have learned is that in the beginning it was because of hitting emotional triggers that I didn't know were there. However these days when something like this happens it is almost always followed by me getting sick the next day. So if I'm not feeling up to par but don't know what's wrong, I just tell him that and we tend to skip play until I feel better.

Since you had been branded the previous night, I imagine it is a leftover from what that did to you physically. As long as you aren't shrinking away from his touch, and are able to discuss it calmly, he will get over it also. Because you know he didn't mean to do this to you, and you two should spend some time today just cuddling and reconnecting.

Thanks DesFip for giving me some sound advise and good reasoning

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