RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!!

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la90066 -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/8/2006 3:15:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: newflowers An interesting article and some profound responses. There is another current thread in which i attempted to make this point about the acceptance of an "experienced" dominant. It is not the jargon, the dress, the club memberships - these are icing on the cake for those interested in such. It is not the number years of active bdsm participation. It is the inner man himself - the control, the authority, the sense of power that is intrinstic to the man, it does not require self-proclamation nor does it require a loud voice and fan club. It is. While we often discuss what is and is not sufficiently domly or really submissive, the motivation of each is the deciding factor. i am not submissive because i cannot take care of myself and mine, it is not because i do not possess my own power. it is my need to have approval and control from one who has more power than i do, who is stronger than i am. being agreeable and giving permission is not the same as feeling the strength of another. likewise, having that instrintic dominance is not at all the same as merely proclaiming it. i particularly appreciate the topic of what a dominant does with that power - what he does for others, for the world, how his authority can benefit his corner of the world. there is no casting apersions, no placing blame, but the attitude of dominance that says "i see this area in which my skill, my abilities can make a positive difference" and goes about the work of it. i am far more able to respect a man who cannot afford an expensive dinner because his child support is paid and his children cared for AND he does not blame his ex, than i am one who can wine and dine me and not know the cost of children's shoes or college entrance requirements. the latter indicates that he is in pursuit of selfish pleasure and while that can be a very good thing, never at the expense of those for whom we are responsible. thanks bunches for the link and inspiring the subsequent discussion. newflowers In a word... BRILLIANT! Thank you for your response and insights -- I especially agree with your highlighted comment above. [:)]

Wildfleurs -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/8/2006 3:59:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: la90066 I can see how you took that away from the article, but personally, when I read it, I got a bit of a different take on it... i.e.,: 1. One who can not MANAGE (i.e., not rich -- just workin with what ya got) their finances lacks the personal discipline to control their own lives, let alone manage/guide the life of another. The problem is that it could be said for anything. For instance: One who cannot manage their caffeine and sugar addictions lacks the personal discipline to control their own addictions and lives, let alone manage/guide the life of another. One who cannot manage to control their addictions to nicotine which carries a strong potential for death definitely lacks the personal discipline to control their own lives, let alone manage/guide the life of another. My point basically is that we are all humans with foibles. Yes having great finances would be a good human trait, but that still has nothing to do with whether someone is a dominant. I could take any of the qualities that I prefer as a dominant, but that doesn’t mean that those qualities that I desire are what at its base make a dominant. I don’t date smokers, namely because it smells, but also because it is an addiction that I don’t care for. Does that mean that smokers can’t have a dominant personality? I could definitely make the argument for it, but I don’t think that is the case. quote: 2. Through the use of certain buzz words, actions, or in our case, checking the "Dominant" box on an internet website, anyone can call themself a "Dom" -- but that does not make it so (Note the number of HNGs here that state they are Doms). Sure, I mean you checked off the box on collarme.com to say that you are a dominant. Anyone can check off a box on a screen, but that doesn’t mean they have a dominant personality. Neither do the qualities and learned skills that she mentioned have much to do with a personality trait. quote: Also, I see a lot of commentary here about the financial comments within the article, despite the article stating, "Unfortunately, what Colby doesn't have is emotional, financial, or personal stability, the things that in my opinion establish a foundation for someone to control another person" So it's not just the "financial" aspect. The problem is that most of her article uses finances as examples of why Dylan is a dominant, so I suspect that’s why most of the responses have focused on that issue. My main disagreement with the article is simply that we seem to define dominant personality differently. She quotes someone named Julia in defining vanilla dominants (i.e. people with dominant personalities) as: "Vanilla Dominants don't take pride in the fact that they own eleven different floggers and they are skilled at wax play. They take pride in how much money they raised for their church or how they coached their daughter for the debating team." Being civicly engaged or taking pride in children is a wonderful quality but that has nothing to do with dominance as a personality trait, which to me is most basically summed up in Merriam Webster: 1 : commanding, controlling, or prevailing over all others 2 : overlooking and commanding from a superior position To me a sure fire test of a dominant personality is that you take ten or twenty people and put them on an island. The one that is running the show after about a week or so is probably the alpha/dominant personality. That has nothing to do with how well they manage their finances, or even with their emotional maturity. I think qualities and learned skills (managing finances effectively is a learned skill, not a personality trait) are great requirements to have for a dominant, submissive, slave, partner, or kinky spouse. But the problem I have is when those qualities and learned skills are confused with being a dominant personality. C~

Petruchio -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/8/2006 6:03:53 PM)
quote: Quacks Like a Dom… Isn't that more a sub scene?

Tristan -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/8/2006 6:48:40 PM)
Wildfleurs, I think that you are partly right about your assessment of a dominant person being the one that can take control of a situation like your island example. Some people can control their lives, but have no ability to control anther person’s life. However, control of others in itself is not necessarily what one should look for in a dominant. Adolph Hitler took control of an entire country. I also saw a biography of him that said six of his former girl friends committed suicide. I think the part about being a dominant leader might be an outward trait that many submissives look for in a person. However, I think that the ability to control ones finances (i.e. resources and life) is the foundation for any good dominant. There are quiet dominants that have control without all of the outward bravado. Sometimes they are much more in control than others who have the outward signs of being dominant. The ability to listen, consider, and then act should never be underestimated. Tristan

ImpGrrl -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/8/2006 7:28:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tristan I think that the ability to control ones finances (i.e. resources and life) is the foundation for any good dominant. I think that the ability to control ones finances (i.e. resources and life) is the foundation for any good mature adult human being. I'm with Wildfleurs on this one. That's a great quality to have - everyone should have it - but it's not what makes or breaks "a dominant".

Sensualips -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/8/2006 8:42:15 PM)
I have watched this topic unfold with great interest. What an intriguing array of well stated opinions. Unfortunately, I decided it is the catalyst for an mini anxiety attack. Now I am worrying about not only the suggested 6-month waiting period -- but also my credit rating, sugar addiction, dirty dishes, and neverending quest for "mental and emotional stability." DAMMIT! I will never be ready for a real relationship. It is good thing I support casual sex.

Padriag -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/8/2006 9:11:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: Plus I think the idea that to be naturally dominant equals being completely stable would then leave out every dominant person I've ever known. Regardless of the role or the orientation, human beings are human beings first and foremost. On this I have to say that while I agree with you....I have to interject just a bit. While not being completely stable in life does not negate the fact that you may or may not be Dominant....I do believe that instability is an indicator that while you may be Dominant....you are not in a position to exercise that dominance over another. I do not ask for perfection because yes, we are all human beings first and foremost. But, in order for me to consider allowing someone to exercise control over my life, I need to see that they are fairly well in control of their own. Let's try this from another perspective. Everyone has periods of instability in their life. We all face circumstances at various points in our life that chaos a bit of chaos. The difference I see between dominant personalities and others is that those dominant personalities tend to take charge of their lives and their circumstance. Not as an act of egoism, but because they want stability and they actively work towards it through their own means. So yes, a dominant personality might have periods of instablity in their life... but unless life has just really thrown a lot at them, there will be a larger pattern of stability. At the very least, even under the worst of circumstances, there should be a pattern of moving towards control and stability.

caitlyn -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/8/2006 9:39:33 PM)
This is a wonderful topic, and thanks to the original poster and all those who have contributed. In my opinion, it is impossible to apply any hard and fast rules to this question. I'm sure we can all think of people of great accomplishment, that are not in control of many aspects of their lives ... great generals that have drinking problems, powerful rulers that can't control rage, etc ... At the same time, I would bet there is a slave reading this thread, that runs a model household. Are we to say that the need for order and control of the house, makes that person a dominant. So, I think these are some things that CAN be an indication of a dominant, but are not things you could look at and say ... yes, that person is, or isn't dominant.

newflowers -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/8/2006 10:57:18 PM)
quote: So yes, a dominant personality might have periods of instablity in their life... but unless life has just really thrown a lot at them, there will be a larger pattern of stability. At the very least, even under the worst of circumstances, there should be a pattern of moving towards control and stability. i agree dominance is not about perfection, and there are times when we all have chaos and problems that can throw us. i do think that the key is how one deals with the chaos and problems and the initial reaction is most telling. this is not to say that submissives cannot handle the problems of life, that is certainly not true. the article discusses the idea of submission from a position of strength and the reserve would hold true - dominiance from a position of strength as well. int he quest for a relationship that maintains a d/s dynamic, i know that no matter how i wrap it in pretty paper, being submissive to someone who is not (or i feel is not) stonger leaves me discontent. i have to imagine that the reverse of this is true as well. newflowers

la90066 -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/8/2006 11:01:38 PM)
quote: Wildfleurs All VERY good, valid points. While we may not completely see eye to eye, I thank you for sharing your perspective... Seriously, thank you!!! [:)]

ExistentialSteel -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/9/2006 12:19:17 AM)
Intelligence often makes one a leader while that person may not have Dom tendencies in any form. Often leaders in social or work situations are not Dom types. A case may even be made that they are usually submissive types. Haven’t you all read those articles about the executives or whatever who want to relinquish control in their personal lives? How many of us know subs that are simply the life of the party in every situation? They are leaders in life, yet choose to be submissive to some others. Personally, I am fascinated by the stock market, real estate and things like that, however this trait does not have anything to do with me being a Dom. I know many submissive types who are very wealthy. Look at the types of Doms on CM. We have all professions represented and those who are poor, rich, stupid, smart, morose, funny... and on it goes.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/9/2006 12:52:08 AM)
you know i am so really board with people trying to figure out what doms subs and dommes are why don t you figure out what you are in life then go from their. why dont you learn how to love and build and make things happen for each other instead of trying to anaylize the mentallity of the human condition we are going to have both sides of everything we have both sides in all of us just different degrees read history if you doubt me sigie knew this so did maslow and so on basic human identies come from childhood in teraction when bdsm peeps learn these things i will be impressed honor LOYALTY trust cherish compasion devotion commitment. responsiblity. respect of what is given and has been set in motion balance understand it respect it thats just the start of the root of the tree :)

devilDOM -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/9/2006 1:00:01 AM)
you use the example of people on an island and the DOM Alpha A being in charge. This I have a difficult time with for there is no mention of survivual skills, strenght in there stature, etc. Think of an organization that is floating in air with no leadership and this has gone on for sometime. The person who rights this ship is the DOM, no fear of being liked, being focused of each and everyone uptaining their potential and the organization being suggessful. They led in Micro management and macro management. He is strict, honest and a person that holds there word as sacred. Timothy

Chaingang -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/9/2006 2:51:14 AM)
I agree with those here that are noting the difficulty of pinning down precisely what behaviors indicate a dominant nature. Those that are trying to define it more rigidly are in my view merely noting some possible indicators. Having real life baggage in no way disqualifies one for a life of dominance any more than it does for a life of submission - most of that stuff is up to individual preferences. Personally, I consider children a very hard limit (as in I probably don't want any, and certainly not another man's children) and at my age that causes problems because many women I might otherwise consider suitable already have that kind of baggage. Children often mean some other man is a very big part of the picture - in fact, not just another man but his whole damned family as well; and then there's the kids too. Blech... Other people might look at my background and say: "Oh look, he's still carrying debt from his several years in university." Maybe that's a kind of baggage they don't want in a Dominant male. That's okay with me, there's plenty of other fish in the sea. To my view that's like saying I am no good because I might also have a mortgage. So fine, I am not King Midas - I've been found out. Big deal. I am not the most aggressive of people. I often let others bumble around first before I come into the picture and solve the problems created by circumstances and ineptitude. I often negotiate with people such that they think I am giving them their say, and then I do exactly what I intended from the first anyway. These are just the patient strategies I have learned over time to get what I want from others. I wait, I listen, I subvert, and then I take over as everyone's hero and get exactly what I want and most commonly with everyone's gratitude as well. Does any of that make me Dominant? I don't know... When I was younger I use to use my fists the way I now use my brain. I am the most intelligent person I know. People often defer to my judgement. I am extremely persuasive when I wish to be. I usually get my way in almost all things. I am not too hard on the eyes. I have a pleasant manner and and am actually quite sweet. My cock can dish out more punishment than most pussies can handle. Basically, I am silverback and I leave it to others to figure out why. If some people don't like me, I am not worried about it in a world of several billion people. I have options. I have dominion.

darkslife -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/9/2006 3:33:23 AM)
Love the island reference: Except I would actively sit back and observe the group, notice who slots in where, and when the current leader stuffs up, simply step in and take over. I have not only survival knowledge (thank you Australian Army) but people management skills and knowledge of the people involved. How does that fit into your little scenario? Also, I did get a very strong feeling from that article that she was mainly interested in finances. Hell I don't care how many floggers I have, I build my dungeon equipment cos I like building, not cos I use it all that often. I do things that interest me, and from time to time, that involves making money. Then I semi-retire until it runs out, and do it all over again. How does that fit in with the article's financial slant? In short, while an interesting topic, I feel the execution focused too heavily on areas that I personally deem unimportant, and is a tad short-sighted in some reguards. David

JohnWarren -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/9/2006 5:10:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag So yes, a dominant personality might have periods of instablity in their life... but unless life has just really thrown a lot at them, there will be a larger pattern of stability. At the very least, even under the worst of circumstances, there should be a pattern of moving towards control and stability. I used to tell my students who came in toward the end of the semester looking for an extension, "During my doctoral program, in the semester that ended in a seven day comprehensive examination, my last living relative, my father, died, my wife of 12 years left me, and I was injured and confined to a wheelchair. Now if you can beat that, you can have an extension." Shit happens.... what matters is that you keep shoveling

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/9/2006 10:40:34 PM)
I think the point of the article was demonstrate that a true dominant will eventually get where they want to be, whereas a wannabe will languish in excuses. Thus the reason for financial references. Who would opt to be broke? The theory being a true dominant personality may experience temporary problems but would overcome them, a sub would look for others to help or ignore them. So, the overall point of the article is a dominant will try and most often eventually suceed in doing what they want with there life, whereas a wannabe won't and just dream about it. I think that is completely true. As far as the Island example goes. What is the point of activities on the Island? I'd think it would be survival. Thus the goal shouldn't be to administer and direct activities necessarily, but to perform the most useful work possible to ensure survival. It's more conceit than dominant personality to think that one will always needs to be the figure head leader at everything. I personally would find the area of work on the island needing the most improvement and focus my energies in that direction. Probably vote for a less physically abled person to administer activies. I mean is the point to survive or have a pissing contest.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/9/2006 10:48:46 PM)
whoops where it says sub should of said wannabe. Guess I have sub on the brain. Thanks

Chaingang -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/10/2006 12:22:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou I mean is the point to survive or have a pissing contest. Your point is well taken, at the same time you evince a complete ignorance of the social life of human beings: There is always a pissing contest and it matters! Do you happen to know who survived the famous Donner Party incident and why?

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! (1/10/2006 12:54:43 AM)
Donner party yes i know what happen i was there i ate them Burp oops did i say that hey i was hungry give me a break all this hot air going around makes a person hungry burp [:-]

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