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RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/10/2006 2:28:50 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		Calling someone completely ignorant because they think different. I guess your theory in life is to piss off people at every turn. How's that working out dumbass. Pretty easy to do.

Anyway, Power comes from respect and respect is earned, if someone was doing what you would do try to take power you'd just kill each off. Sometimes holding your piss, serves you better than pissing yourself. I guess you are ignorant of that concept.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/10/2006 4:21:45 AM   
MasterRobert1


Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		There are some people who look upon themselves as "born warriors", natural born soldiers. Do you know how far that attitude gets them in the military? Nowhere. Because being a natural orn anything is worthless, without some form of guidance, training, discipline. Even natural born athletes need to be trained and shaped. Being a Dom is no different.

(in reply to la90066)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/10/2006 8:45:38 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		I think that the problem is that really there can only be a very miniscule percent of the population that has a dominant personality (which is not the same as being a BDSM dominant). Hell I don't have a dominant personality, I'm just kind of a meandering around person. I can take charge if I want to, but thats certainly not what I always want to do or my immediate instinct.

So the problem is that a lot of people these days want to be a dominant personality than the numbers support, and I think examples like the island where it is clear that there can really only be one or two leaders, really does pare it down to - where do you fit on the food chain. And I think it can be difficult to really honestly still claim a dominant personality if you don't know that you'd be the leader of the tribe, so to speak.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/10/2006 10:30:15 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Anyway, Power comes from respect and respect is earned...


That's the way you would like social power to work, that's not how it actually works.

In a climb or die scenario you may not have time to assert your authority over time, you may have to take a position of high power right off and try building outwards from there. You would also do well to try and formulate tight social bonds with as many people as possible. In a famine situation those that get cast off and eaten (as in the Donner Party scenario) have few social ties to the main group. So if you are outside, you'd better get inside in a big damned hurry.

As for the rest, I gather you haven't read my previous posts so there's no point going on here. In other scenarios you may have more time to explore other strategies, but the pissing contest always matters.

Always.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRobert1
Do you know how far that attitude gets them in the military? Nowhere.


That's because there is no natural hierarchy in the military. What the military wants is for everyone to accept and respect a preexisting hierarchy whether they agree with it or not.

So right there you have a reason why the military is rarely a good example of anything other than the military itself. In the real world people actually do vie for power and a preexisting hierarchy may or may not have anything to do with it.


_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/10/2006 11:31:20 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		This is very strange to me. So in order to be dominant some believe, you must always be the defacto leader in every situation. I don't buy that and quite frankly it doesn't make any sense. So, how is it not dominant to say I don't care what others think I'm going to do what needs to be done. Isn't that the very definition of a dominant personality. Whereas, someone who just targets what they perceive to be power positions, isn't really making any kind contribution and just wants a little glory for himself. The former will be respected and gain the groups trust, whereas those targeting power are way more likely to be disliked by the group. So, I guess you're right if by dominant you mean someone who just strives for power for the sake of power. But wrong if by dominant you mean someone who does what they want to do, regardless of what others think. In the long run who will win? It's obvious.

Anyway, guess there are two views. One is power, and the other self-determinism.

Okay I'm done Gotta get back to work

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/10/2006 11:44:59 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Anyway, guess there are two views. One is power, and the other self-determinism.


These are not mutually exclusive positions. From a significant power base you can actually engage in a lot of self-determined behavior and with everyone else's resources in tow as well.

In a survival environment you cannot stand alone, you must lead or be led.


_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/10/2006 11:58:44 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		ChainGang: I just looked back at the message order the first time I saw mention of the donner party or whatever it was called was when you replied to my message. Well it's obvious that if it comes right down to it and it's you or me and it's go time well, I'd go for power immediately probably any sub, slave, nun, or anybody would in a life or death scenario. I believe the Island was brought up as an example of contained long-term setting where a group would go from strangers to a set hierarchy with past advantage or disadvantage. Basicly like the series "LOST" without the weirdness. Thus the theory being that peoples natural positions would become evident. At least that is what I was basing my assertions on, not a 1 or 2 week kill or be killed situation. And I simply stated the best thing to do in the island situation was to be the most useful person, not the ones going for the throat of power.

Okay now going to work, just saw your message

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/10/2006 12:27:21 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

This is very strange to me. So in order to be dominant some believe, you must always be the defacto leader in every situation. I don't buy that and quite frankly it doesn't make any sense. So, how is it not dominant to say I don't care what others think I'm going to do what needs to be done. Isn't that the very definition of a dominant personality. Whereas, someone who just targets what they perceive to be power positions, isn't really making any kind contribution and just wants a little glory for himself. The former will be respected and gain the groups trust, whereas those targeting power are way more likely to be disliked by the group. So, I guess you're right if by dominant you mean someone who just strives for power for the sake of power. But wrong if by dominant you mean someone who does what they want to do, regardless of what others think. In the long run who will win? It's obvious.

Anyway, guess there are two views. One is power, and the other self-determinism.

Okay I'm done Gotta get back to work


I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. To me a dominant personality is someone that is able to, naturally gravitates to, and enjoys getting people to do what they want. So in the island example, if you randomly pick 20 people and wait about a week, the peoples actual personalities will start to come out, including someone who has a dominant personality.

I can quote Merriam Webster again because I like their defintion of dominant:

1 : commanding, controlling, or prevailing over all others
2 : overlooking and commanding from a superior position

I should add, it doesn't mean anything less about a person if they don't have a dominant personality. Numbers wise, only a very small number of people (I'd guess 2-3%) have a dominant personality. Its just that many more try to claim to have it.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/12/2006 12:55:47 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		you know what the definition of a hero is someone that gets other people killed

i like that statment cause thats what we all try to be in the lifestyle something but it ends up being nothing in the end
why not look at it this way just live explore and have fun just not at other peoples expense but from pure thought or do we all have to do your thinking for you it gets kinda of boring dont ya know


be your own person not someones elses imagenation written by latexbaby :)

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/12/2006 5:57:47 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64
be your own person not someones elses imagenation written by latexbaby :)


Just for people's info,

"You know what the definition of a hero is? Someone who gets other people killed. You can look it up later." - Zoe Washburne, Serenity

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/12/2006 8:43:48 AM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Interesting how the discussion has meandered off the orginal question and the article....
Hiya LA! Been a while, hope your holidays were good!

I am who and what I am.
I am janeys' Owner.
I'm a divorced father of two.
My credit sucks (see above, the two kids are in college, the child support was a higher priority in my life than the before divorce credit cards).
I started a BDSM munch group.
I'm a member of the NCSF, and represent my group at the NCSF.
I have a full time, steady job that I have held for quite some time.
I'm a kinky, perverted, sadistic summonabeach
I seek advice, ideas, knowledge from those who are more knowledgeable or experienced than I am.
I follow the instructions of my supervisors at work.
I generally obey the law of the land.
I accept the responsibility for, and consequences of, my decisions.

I am who and what I am.
And that is enough.

Others submit to my authority and at times others seek my advice and leadership.
That is enough.

Others come to me and want me to play with them.
That is enough.

In the BDSM world I would have to describe myself as a Dominant. As to whether I actually am or not, I leave to others to decide. In the end it doesn't matter what others call me. The respect in their eye and tone of voice, the fact that they trust me with their problems, their questions, their fears, they share their power or surrender it to me, or trust me to speak in their behalf, or to do terrible, wicked, painful things to their bodies... That is what matters, that is what is real. Toss a label on it if you must, but the label doesn't change the reality of what it _is_.

Formal education? Credit rating? Job positions? Toys in the toy bag? What they wear? ? ? ? That's all smoke and mirrors, a dog and pony show put on by others to justify their various positions. My own personal observation has been that those who find social or personality traits to justify or define "dominance" are often insecure about that particular trait in their own lives. What makes a Dominant a Dominant? Why does one person like applesauce and another brussell sprouts? Why is one person an artist and another a rapist? I don't know and frankly I don't care. But I know a Dominant when I meet one, just as I know a slave when I meet one, or know that I like a bit of art or food. It just _is_.

*grins and shrugs*

This probably didn't help the discussion, but hey, I'm like that sometimes.

YIK,
- Geoff

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/12/2006 9:12:56 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff
Interesting how the discussion has meandered off the orginal question and the article....
Hiya LA! Been a while, hope your holidays were good!

Good to see you again Geoff :) Holidays were very good and hectic, going to Arisia this weekend.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to EvilGeoff)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/12/2006 9:46:37 AM   
valeca


Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline 		In regards the a Dominant always seeking power, I have to say I disagree. At least when it comes to a societal setting. There are times when it would be the wiser move to let someone else step in and take the leadership role; in essence, watching events from a "lesser" position. Grabbing for immediate power can bring a mighty tumble. The wise tend to observe the 'lay of the land' before jumping in with both feet.

In short, I'd say that a Dominant would take each situation as they come, observe, make an informed decision, then act accordingly. Sometimes that means working from outside the lime-light or behind the scenes and away from a "Power" role.

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/12/2006 11:10:22 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		Matter of fact, a dominant may have little to do with playing a dominant role in situations outside of managing his/her sub. We are mixing the D/s apples with societal oranges.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/12/2006 4:34:05 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		We are just differing on subtle differences in perception really. My view is simply I don't care what others think of me I just do what needs to be done, and that tends to garner respect from most of disdain of the few that are in the obvious wrong. Now, the goal isn't to lead but for the most part, people tend to respect me, though that has nothing to do with why I do things.

From what I hear you saying the reason you do what you do is because you want to lead people. As in the goal is to get people to do what you want them to do. There's nothing wrong with that, in most situations. But having that view your actions are really controlled by what you perceive is necessary to get others to do what you want, and so you are controlled as well.

It's all philosphy and crap really we are talking about. I agree with others ultimately it doesn't matter. But it is fun to argue a bit:)

In my mind only, in reply to the scene doms versus social doms, I can't really see how they are seperate for me anyway. Thanks.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/12/2006 9:38:31 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		I've read this thread daily sense it began.... wtf was the question again? I mean... I even read the link on the OP. Is he really a Dom?

Wow... who really gives anyone the right to determine who is and who isn't what they claim to be? He very well may not be a Dom in someones eyes, but he is in anothers. I very well may not be a sub ones eyes, but I am in anothers.

But what the hell..... the back and forth BS has been interresting to read... for the most part.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/12/2006 11:02:48 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline 		An interesting read, but I can't say I agreed with all its slants or absolutisms.

(in reply to la90066)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/13/2006 5:52:18 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
Wow... who really gives anyone the right to determine who is and who isn't what they claim to be? He very well may not be a Dom in someones eyes, but he is in anothers. I very well may not be a sub ones eyes, but I am in anothers.

LOL now you know some of what I felt when you came on and started blasting away when you didn't like what you heard.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Is He REALLY a Dom?!! - 1/13/2006 6:55:22 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
Wow... who really gives anyone the right to determine who is and who isn't what they claim to be? He very well may not be a Dom in someones eyes, but he is in anothers. I very well may not be a sub ones eyes, but I am in anothers.

LOL now you know some of what I felt when you came on and started blasting away when you didn't like what you heard.



I"m incline to think there was a differance. But what the hell... I learned.. so will others.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 59
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