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RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 8:58:05 AM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
this slave hasn't had an experience exactly like that, but after raising three unmentionables, this slave can tell you that "Because I said so." IS a valid reason and you are doing them a disservice not teaching them that concept.

It's rare that I don't agree with Mercnbeth, but this time ...

I'm not that far removed from being an unmentionable, and while I recognizing that "because I said so" is valid ... it may not work on all people.

Case in point, my sister would find that completely acceptable, but I would not. Using a line like that on me would destroy your credibility with me. Now, you may say that you don't care about having credibility with an unmentionable ... but think about that for a minute. I would argue that having credibility with your unmentionables is probably the most important thing one could strive for as a parent.

In my own relationship with my foster parents, we crossed a major hurdle when they stopped telling me what to do, and started telling me why it was important to do as they say. I don't see this as a form of rebellion ... although I'm sure some will insist that it is ... I see it more as human nature, as is applies to individuals. Some people just have a better time obeying, if they know why it is important that they do so.

As an aside, my sister ... the one that listened to the foster parents unconditionally, is about as far from being submissive as anyone you would ever know. As a matter of fact, she got married not that long ago, and is already well on her way to completely dominating that relationship. Point being, that blind obedience probably has very little to do with a submissive nature, other than by pure coincidence. I'm the questioner ... but can be quite submissive, as long as I know why it's important to be so.

Sorry if that perspective rocks the boat ...

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 21

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 9:43:37 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I'm just wondering where "because I said so" enters into this scenario at all?

This person is:

a) confused by what his mother is doing, acting in a very out of character way and using words that don't make sense to him

b) scared by the things he has heard this other person doing to his mother

How will telling him "because I said so" help either of those?

I agree that adult time is adult time and kids need to respect the privacy of adults and their privilege of choices. But this doesn't seem like a situation where the "Because I'm the adult and can do what I want" line will be very useful.

But I'm just the low-self esteem trying to be superior by putting others down chick, so what do I know?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 22

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 10:00:25 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I think that is an empty answer. You are not their Master/Mistress they are not your little slaves. They deserve a reasonable explanation and respect. An answer like that only shows their feelings or questions do not matter. My parents used that on me, it just pissed me off. I wanted an answer.

Perhaps once in awhile actually play wrestle in the living room so he can see it is a game between you and your master. Perhaps your master can give you a silly name like Igor and call you that during the play.

So you would rather the parents "perform" for their children rather than say; "because I say so..."?

No, unmentionables are NOT slaves. "slaves" are easier to control and disclipline and usually you and your slave have a common goal. That is not commonly true with unmentionables. My beth has a great perspective on issues of unmentionalbes. When she challenged her mother about not buying the proper style pants, or the color; her mother would tell beth they weren't her clothes, they were beth's parents clothes just bought in her size. If she didn't clean her room she was liable to find ALL her stuff dumped on the floor, she was allowed out when the room passed inspection. "Why mom?" Because I said so...is VERY valid.

All throughout your life you'll follow "because I said so..." rules. Instead of your parents it will be society, your employer, or the government. Why do you stop at a red light at 3:00 AM? Why is smoking pot illegal and drinking alcohol not? Why won't I get hired showing up for an interview in jeans and a dirty tee shirt? Why did I have to go to college in order to qualify for a job I know I can do? Somebody is always "saying so" to you. I believe you are showing them a great deal of respect preparing them for what they will face in life. Life isn't "fair". It's very difficult if not impossible to go through a day and not do something just because someone else says you can't do otherwise. The earlier this is conveyed to the unmentionable the fewer adjustments they'll have to make when it's their turn to face life without you. There is no better place to start than in the privacy of what occurs behind a parents bedroom doors.

My unmentionables weren't lucky enough to get the simple "Because I said so..." response, to "why" questions. They had to hear this long parable influenced story. "The largest animal in the world, a Blue Whale, must eat over 7500 pounds of food a day. The food? Tiny shrimp-like organisms called krill. The method, tons of water filtered through the large mouth getting to the stomach through a throat no wider than your fist. Why? Because that's the way it is, and the Blue Whale can't do anything about it." After telling that story a few times, they didn't want to hear it any more. I only had to say to them; "remember the Blue Whale...". They still hear it today. "Dad, I need a new car. Will you buy me one? A new Porshe would be nice." I answered; "NO!" When she asked Why? I answered; "Remember the Blue Whale..."

(in reply to FionaFineass)

Post #: 23

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 10:12:56 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

My unmentionables weren't lucky enough to get the simple "Because I said so..." response, to "why" questions. They had to hear this long parable influenced story. "The largest animal in the world, a Blue Whale, must eat over 7500 pounds of food a day. The food? Tiny shrimp-like organisms called krill. The method, tons of water filtered through the large mouth getting to the stomach through a throat no wider than your fist. Why? Because that's the way it is, and the Blue Whale can't do anything about it." After telling that story a few times, they didn't want to hear it any more. I only had to say to them; "remember the Blue Whale...". They still hear it today. "Dad, I need a new car. Will you buy me one? A new Porshe would be nice." I answered; "NO!" When she asked Why? I answered; "Remember the Blue Whale..."

I have to admit that I really had a good laugh when I read this. I did not get to grow up with the benefit of parents who explained out all of their decisions either. Oh well....no one ever said life was going to be fair! My mother's story though was much shorter than yours Merc. The answer to the question of "Why?" was always the same. "Because Y has a tail." Made no sense other than to let you know the discussion was over. I used it many times with my own children, although I must admit I was generally much more explanatory than my own parents.

As for what went on behind my parents bedroom door.....or anything else of an adult nature....the answer was "That's adult stuff and we will talk about that more when you're older".

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 24

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 12:22:33 PM

LadyJC

Posts: 111
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline

Nope because I said so...definitely did not work on me. I was the Why? child. Always asking questions.
I remember my older brother and sister asked my mom where do babies come from? My mom simply said from the baby's tummy. They were quite satisfied with that and never bothered her again.
Me on the other hand, it was How did the baby get into the mommy's tummy? My mom said From the daddy.
That one worked for a while then I went back and asked, How did the daddy get the baby into the mommy's tummy? I was 6 when I asked that...she rented us a video it was pretty good and taught us a lot. However my dad would try the Because I said so... or Just cause...thing. Nope didn't work on me for anything. Even math.
I'm definitely like caitlyn that way I have to know the reason behind everything.
In any case explaining to the unmentionable exactly what happened isn't very good at that age. However he does need to get some sort of understanding about what happened under his belt. When he's older he might look back one day and think...OMG That's disgusting!! You never know!
LadyJC

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 25

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 12:59:34 PM

Tempestspet

Posts: 360
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline

*ALL REFERNCES TO "YOU"...ARE BASICALLAY GENERIC.....SO NO NEED TO GET TOO PERSONAL*
okey dokey....here we go:

Well, here's my opinions, as I have 3 of these unmentionables, and have been married for almost 14 yrs now, so I've done this for a little while and actually know what I'm talking about...(this is for those concerned with "credientals" for advice or opinion giving)

Maybe you don't always get to play at home (we don't..). Maybe a babysitting arrangement between family, and/or friends should be worked out. I don't want to hear nothing can be done... something can always be done, it just requires varying degrees of effort. Maybe a hotel room can be gotten every now and then... if not... find another way.
Master and i don't get to play all the time. That's life. But the dynamic doesn't change, we simply learn to apreciate it on new or different levels. Or take the small moments when you can. If you are a weeper... just tell the unmentionable you are overly emotional.... he or she's probably noticed anyways... personally Master and I keep the real heavy stuff, the weepier stuff...for parties, or play sessions away from home.

Unmentionables.... "Because I said that's the way it is".... is a perfectly good reason, when you need to use it. They may not be ready for the real reason. That's why you (generic you) are the parent. You aren't their friend...or anything else for that matter. This might be why we have so many self righteous brts running around. Adults started tripping all over themselves trying not to offend, or disrespect an unmentionable. Give me a break.

At 10, they aren't ready to be exposed to that. ( nor are they generally ready emotionally to be exposed to all the reasoning and answers that go along with being too honest about it either.) You messed up. You should have thought of the stereo or whatever other background noise before it was too late. I don't think I'm too harsh or mean in saying this.... because I did it. Most people do it. So it's not too much to ask to think before you get carried away. We have 3 unmentionables. They get the "because I say so..." and they do ask why.... alot.

I tell them that I say so... because I'm mom. Period. When they are an adult, ask me then, or when they are parents they are free to use that themselves. When they ask why... and the answer isn't apropriate for them to know the "real" answer, I simply tell them that it's not apropriate for them to have that kind of adult information, but I promise that when they are ready... ask, and I will just tell you then.

They aren't idiots. They aren't slaves... but I didn't raise them to be selfish brats either. When I say they don't need something, they may not like it, but because they are smart, they accept it. And if they don't like it, they know it's ok to be upset or even mad.... but don't lose yourself over it.

My job is to teach them, and raise them to be good, responsible, intelligent adults. And productive members of society. And catering to every whim, and answering every question or wondering that they have inapropriate or not.... isn't going to accomplish that. I may sound harsh or mean, or whatever... but my children are loved deeply, cherished, and really don't want for a whole lot. So I must not be doing too badly either.

Anyways... hopefully I didn't stray too far from the Ops point, or question she asked. Oh, and sorry it's a little jumbled... too much to say, and it came out too fast. Thanks everyone

Tempest's pet
jennifer

(in reply to LadyJC)

Post #: 26

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 1:31:35 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I'm just wondering where "because I said so" enters into this scenario at all?

This person is:

a) confused by what his mother is doing, acting in a very out of character way and using words that don't make sense to him

b) scared by the things he has heard this other person doing to his mother

How will telling him "because I said so" help either of those?

I agree that adult time is adult time and kids need to respect the privacy of adults and their privilege of choices. But this doesn't seem like a situation where the "Because I'm the adult and can do what I want" line will be very useful.

well, if that was the one and only thing this slave suggested than that would seem sorta cold, but here's the FULL reply, with explanations:

to address the issue of crying behind the closed door with another person in the room:

quote:

you can say that crying is not something to be scared of.

or whatever explanation you can come up with to convey that crying doesn't equal BAD. hey, you could put on that 50's song-----"it's my party and i'll cry if i want to, cry if i want to........" adult's can and do cry when they want and it can be very healthy.

quote:

you can teach them about the privacy of an adult's bedroom and a closed door.

"but why?" because adults have certain things like PRIVACY behind their closed bedroom door, that unmentionables are not allowed. (definitely an "I'm an adult and I can do what I want"-type scenario, but even this slave explained that oneto hers.)

quote:

you can explain to them that "Master" is a term of endearment between you and your partner.

"but why?" looks like you've got three options:
act like you have something to hide by making up some cute little story about playing games
get into M/s relationship dynamics with someone most likely too young to get it or care
or pull the "Because I said so" card, which isn't designed to piss off or aggravate, but to end the demand for an explanation.

quote:

this slave hasn't had an experience exactly like that, but after raising three unmentionables, this slave can tell you that "Because I said so." IS a valid reason and you are doing them a disservice not teaching them that concept.

spend 18+ years with the determination to answer every and all "but why"'s as truthfully and straighforward as you can(this slave did and still does) and "Because I said so" brings on a whole new meaning

-----the meaning that Master brought up about having to accept certain "Because I said so's" from authority figures in life and the one about building a level of trust with your unmentionable so that when you say "Because I said so" they know it's ok, that you have their best interests at heart, and that everyone has ways they want things--because that's the way they want them--and that's all part of being an ADULT. do some parents overuse the "Because I said so" to avoid the responsiblity of teaching their unmentionables important life lessons--sure they do, just like they create elaborate stories and lies to hide their activities, but that wasn't what this slave suggested.

quote:

But I'm just the low-self esteem trying to be superior by putting others down chick, so what do I know?

awww, come on, don't call yourself a chick!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 27

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 2:03:37 PM

FionaFineass

Posts: 26
Joined: 1/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

So you would rather the parents "perform" for their children rather than say; "because I say so..."?

What kind of stupid comment is that? . I suggested making up a game that the __ would see the parents are just playing around being silly. So it wouldn't be uncommon if the ___ happened to hear the word master again.

What the hell kind of play do you think I meant. Jesus so I disliked your "because I said so answer" because I think it is a lousy answer. The __ may well say "ok" and then walk away after an answer like that. But they sure are not going to just forget why they asked you the question in the 1st place.

quote:

When she challenged her mother about not buying the proper style pants, or the color; her mother would tell beth they weren't her clothes, they were beth's parents clothes just bought in her size. If she didn't clean her room she was liable to find ALL her stuff dumped on the floor, she was allowed out when the room passed inspection.

Well that is very sad. I have always treated mine with respect for their own likes, dislikes, opinions, ideas. Even if I dont agree. They never heard from me any thing like that.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 28

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 2:21:43 PM

sweetwhisper

Posts: 85
Joined: 11/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

When she challenged her mother about not buying the proper style pants, or the color; her mother would tell beth they weren't her clothes, they were beth's parents clothes just bought in her size. If she didn't clean her room she was liable to find ALL her stuff dumped on the floor, she was allowed out when the room passed inspection.

Well that is very sad. I have always treated mine with respect for their own likes, dislikes, opinions, ideas. Even if I dont agree. They never heard from me any thing like that.

I think extremes are usually bad. Being too strict, too demanding, too stern and rigid -yadda yadda - can be just as bad as being too lenient and soft with your kids. i think children now a days are, for the most part, lacking basic respect towards adults, where when i was a kid (which wasn't THAT long ago lol well, maybe it was ) we knew that we couldn't talk back to a grown ups, and we knew better than to disrespect an adult etc... kids were kids and didn't run the household, the parents did. I have much more communication with my unmentionable than my parents ever had with me, that's for sure, however, there are many times it will be "because i said so" plain and simple - and it doesn't always have to be fair for them, and they need to know this.

(in reply to FionaFineass)

Post #: 29

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 2:33:52 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

What kind of stupid comment is that?

Not as stupid as the suggestion of a staged wresting match, in my opinion. But that's what you expose yourself to anytime you post an opinion. Don't let it bother you.

There is no book of parenting and no one way there either. beth's story is sad to you? Why? Part of the innocence of youth is obeying rules you don't understand, but don't challenge. Sure we respect our kids but we also have to raise them. Disrespect isn't indicated by telling them they are too young to understand a particular decision or particular activity. You've never lied or skirted truth? Did they ever believe in Santa Claus? Didn't you respect they could handle that he doesn't exist? What carries the longer burden, a continued lie or misrepresentation of what happed (staged wresting would be the continued lie) or just saying that they are too young by using the "I said so"?

Your children will be lied to enough. The one source of honesty should be from the person or persons raising them. The Santa Clause example can be excused by it being accepted in society. In some circles NOT perpetuating the lie is a form of abuse. But trying to excuse or justify what was heard inadvertently by saying it was wresting and then conducting a match to illustrate it - yeah, I think that's worthy of a stupidity comment.

When the time comes all the "I said so's" will be understood. The lies, well then the kids end up determining what was staged and what is true. Some grow up never understanding the "why" of being told a lie.

(in reply to FionaFineass)

Post #: 30

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 2:34:35 PM

Tempestspet

Posts: 360
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline

Good for you sweetwhisper. Sounds like you are getting handled ...smiles.. hang in there... I'm told (still waiting..lol) that it gets better *grins*

lol... I told my oldest (gasp...13) that is wasn't my job to be her friend, or pal. I'm her mom. I told her that I would always, always love her. But I would not always like her. That's reality.... pure and simple.

Tempest's pet
jennifer

(in reply to sweetwhisper)

Post #: 31

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 3:08:58 PM

ivone57

Posts: 279
Joined: 1/23/2005
Status: offline

everyone has their own way of dealing with their off spring .... BUT to be playing in the vicinity of such off spring is not wise ...

what would have happened if such off spring would have walked in ... how the heck can that be explained away... it cant...

thats why its wise to wait until there are no off spring around (no matter what age) ...

whats going to happen now when the off spring repeats what he/she herad .. say to a teacher or another friend and that friend repeats to his/her parent ... then what ...

_____________________________

ivone

Property of WhipHer

(in reply to MissHarlet)

Post #: 32

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 3:31:10 PM

Sensualips

Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

You can tell you unmentionable that some things seem scary, and you always want to know if something scares him. Praise him/her for sharing that fear with you.

"Because I said so" is a great reason for not being allowed more candy or being able to watch a particular tv show. It is not a great response when a child brings a fear to you, is scared because of what he perceived your emotional state to be. The child felt afraid -- your job now is to make him feel safe. How you reassure him and make him feel secure is up to you -- based on age, his personality, etc.

As a parent, I don't really feel LA's comments were that harsh. It is not the end of the world, trauma is unlikely - but you exposed your unmentionable to something inappropriate, though unintentionally. Deal with it and take steps to avoid it in the future. Accidents happen and short people see or overhear things we don't want them to see or hear. Maybe it is a hateful argument, maybe a sloppy-drunk relative, maybe vanilla sex, maybe a pop-up porn ad on the computer, maybe it is bdsm play.

(in reply to sweetwhisper)

Post #: 33

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 4:05:53 PM

MHOO314

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ivone57

everyone has their own way of dealing with their off spring .... BUT to be playing in the vicinity of such off spring is not wise ...

what would have happened if such off spring would have walked in ... how the heck can that be explained away... it cant...

thats why its wise to wait until there are no off spring around (no matter what age) ...

whats going to happen now when the off spring repeats what he/she herad .. say to a teacher or another friend and that friend repeats to his/her parent ... then what ...

IMHEO, Smart parenting is smart parenting and far surpasses My BDSM desires and needs--there should be a commitment to their well being and emotional security--no matter what--

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to ivone57)

Post #: 34

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 7:47:52 PM

Misstoyou

Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

At the very least you've acknowledged that he heard what he heard.

That is so much better than, "You were mistaken", "That never happened", "I can't imagine what you thought you heard", which, as an unmentionable, I didn't buy for a second.

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"

(in reply to sweetwhisper)

Post #: 35

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 10:09:20 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

Then I think it's your responcibility to decide given that fact if then is the apropriate time to do what you're doing. I don't think it's really apropriate for your kid to be privy to the very provate things thin walls a factor or not. Your first duty is to being in charge of deciding if it's apropriate time to play or if you care more about upsetting your charge by what they hear.

quote:

i think that's a great idea because eventhough i never say if infront of him, he can still hear me saying it when we are in our bedroom, like i said, walls are pretty thin and if he is in the living room or even in his bedroomm he can pretty much hear anything in the silence of the night -

(in reply to sweetwhisper)

Post #: 36

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/9/2006 11:34:13 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

Why not just sound proof your bedroom better. I don't see how saying crying is natural is going to help. Crying all the time in the bedroom accompanied by slap noises, and master, moaning, among all the other noises, if they can hear the word master they are hearing every pump. Really that isn't very healthy for a little kid to hear. It wouldn't cost more than a thousand dollars to sound proof the bedroom to a reasonable level. If not performing in an enironment when a kid can make out spoken words and crying needs correcting in my opinion. I'm very sure he heard more than the master word, probably to shy, or scared to ask more.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 37

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/10/2006 12:50:57 AM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
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Not every one has a th oughsand dollars lol, but if you could hang up blankets on the walls it might muffle sound.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 38

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/10/2006 3:17:15 AM

sweetpettjenny

Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

I've played in the house with my others around , we simply used gags ....mmmm love them. Plus we locked the door or went down after bed time to our dungeon. Things can still be done and in private. Use commen sense is all....

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

quote:

ORIGINAL: ivone57

everyone has their own way of dealing with their off spring .... BUT to be playing in the vicinity of such off spring is not wise ...

what would have happened if such off spring would have walked in ... how the heck can that be explained away... it cant...

thats why its wise to wait until there are no off spring around (no matter what age) ...

whats going to happen now when the off spring repeats what he/she herad .. say to a teacher or another friend and that friend repeats to his/her parent ... then what ...

IMHEO, Smart parenting is smart parenting and far surpasses My BDSM desires and needs--there should be a commitment to their well being and emotional security--no matter what--

(in reply to MHOO314)

Post #: 39

RE: Question regarding "unment....." - 1/10/2006 4:31:51 AM

krys

Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
You're right it shouldn't be his business. You MADE it his business. He didn't ask to hear- you came out to him. Whether you were trying to do so or not, you did.

Now you have to deal with that.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you don't have kids LA.

Parents are human, and sometimes they do things around their kids that they probably shouldn't. Like swearing in traffic like a sailor with tourettes. Kids survive. If you have children, and you have sex, that "Get off my Mom!" moment is always a possibility. If your kids live with you and you have a day job, restricting your sex life to moments when they aren't home is going to leave you pretty celibate. Bringing a little less silence into the house is definatly a good idea. Leave the TV on nightly, eventually he will get used to sounds in the house and sleep through them. If you don't want your child to overhear you saying "Master", translate that title into another language and use that word instead.

If your child has already had the sex talk, and is aware that you were engaged in some sort of sexual activity at the time, you may want to explain that sometimes it can be an emotionally intense experience. Sometimes people laugh, sometimes people cry. Because its so special.

However, if he has asked and you have spoken about it, and he doesn't seem to be behaving strangely, I would just let it be. Don't keep bringing it up. A child will know you are happy in the way you behave day-to-day. But if you just keep poking and proding at it, it may focus his attention on something he's already gotten over.

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 40

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