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Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 11:38:09 AM   
popeye1250


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I saw Hillary Clinton on the News two days ago and a reporter asked her if she was a liberal.
"I'm a "progressive" said she.
The reporter asked her again and got the same answer.
She just couldn't or wouldn't say that word, "liberal".
I was wondering just *when* Hill became a "progressive."
I mean  did she have to sign some paperwork or anything?
Did she have to renounce her "liberalness" and take the, "Progressive Oath" or anything like that?
It must have been fairly recently as this was news to me that she was now a, "progressive!"
Boy, when she was asked if she was a "liberal" she averted her eyes and a sour look came on her face.
Perhaps she switched over in December over the "Holidays" on a slow Newsday.
Anyone know?

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 11:40:25 AM   
kittinSol


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Have you ever heard her describe herself as a liberal? I don't know either way, but if she never used the dreaded 'l' word as a personal adjective, this whole thing would make sense ;-) . Especially since Lee Attwater and his cohort of right-wing 'ideologues' perverted the meaning of the word.

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 11:46:16 AM   
DesFIP


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The Liberal party in NY died when Alex Rose did. He ran it for 40 years and it was a major powerhouse in the state under him. As for Hillary, she can't be a New York Liberal, she isn't a born in NYC Jew.

Me? I turned 18, my mother took me down to get registered to vote and when asked what party affiliation I was, she answered liberal. Since Alex Rose was my grandfather's close friend, I am a third generation liberal. Although I confess shamefully to being a registered Democrat these days.

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 11:48:37 AM   
kittinSol


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See? I knew there was a perfectly logical explanation. Thank you, DesFIP :-) . 

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 11:49:31 AM   
Irishknight


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Many "liberals" swithed to the term "progressive" in an attempt to disguise who they really are.  Since Hillary has been trying to pretend to be something other than a conniving, power hungry, maniac with delusions of adequacy, of course she will hide behind this fake term.  When people start lumping "progressives" in with the liberal policies of the past, there will be another term. "Not so conservatives" or "anti-Republicans" come to mind.

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 11:51:50 AM   
Owner59


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Ah Popeye,four(or more) years w/ the name Clinton in the papers all the time.

lol,You must be soooo thrilled!

Your obvious obsession we her can start a new and grow wings.

Enjoy...



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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 11:52:22 AM   
popeye1250


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Des, that's odd isn't it, many who embraced the word "liberal" are now shunning it and instead calling themselves, "progressive."
Does this mean they've gotten rid of their "liberal" ways and ideas?
Are they "progressing" in their thought processes and leaving, "the old ways" behind them?
Hillary seemed very vexed when she heard that word, "liberal."
It was very noticable.

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 11:52:30 AM   
kittinSol


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Hey, Knighty. I asked you yesterday but you must have missed it... what makes you so adamant that Clinton is more conniving and more power-hungry than anyone else? I really think people say this about her because she's a woman. Do you think her gender plays a part in your personal assessment of her character?


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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 11:56:38 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Ah Popeye,four(or more) years w/ the name Clinton in the papers all the time.

lol,You must be soooo thrilled!

Your obvious obsession we her can start a new and grow wings.

Enjoy...




Owner, one would think that if she were a "liberal" that she'd embrace that label, not try to push it away.
Now that she's a "progressive" what changes can we expect from her?

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 12:00:53 PM   
Irishknight


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I have had the unfortunate experience of living during Billary's regime in Arkansas and when they were president.  I've known members of their protection staff from their time in the statehouse.  I've seen people whose lives they've destroyed and I've spoken with them.  All of them, without exception, were burned by Hillary because she needed someone to step onto accomplish something.  All of them also fear her like the second coming of Al Capone.

She has shown herbelief that we owe her the oval office.  We owe her nothing.  If she wants that office, she needs to earn it.  She can't buy it with empty promises and charisma like herhusband did.

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 12:00:56 PM   
DesFIP


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Popeye, there is no NY Liberal party any more. Doesn't even appear on the ballots. How can she identify with a party that doesn't exist?

The term no longer has any meaning in New York. We don't shun the term, but we can't use it when there is no political party that it attaches to.

Andrew Goodman, a 20 year old white NYC Jew who was murdered while protesting for equal rights in June of 64 was a Liberal. He was also the older brother of a classmate of my sister. For people like me, being a New York Liberal meant something. The term doesn't carry the same meaning anymore. I'm not ashamed of being a liberal, as I said I am sorry that I no longer can be a card carrying one.

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 12:42:06 PM   
Cagey18


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight
She has shown herbelief that we owe her the oval office.  We owe her nothing.  If she wants that office, she needs to earn it.  She can't buy it with empty promises and charisma like herhusband did.

That ship has sailed.  By 2016 she'll be too old. Obama squashed her one and only chance at the Presidency.

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 1:15:00 PM   
awmslave


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Ms Clinton identified herself as a progressive throughout her presidential campaign. There is no controvercy. The term progressive applies to her better than liberal. She believes in income re-distribution that defines progressive's economics. It would be interesting to ask her how she defines progressivism herself?  In my opinion Mrs. Clinton is a politician first and her ideology is ajusted to a concrete situation. 

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 1:23:04 PM   
kittinSol


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In the end, I think pop is terribly attracted to Clinton, and he just wanted an excuse to discuss her :-) . 

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 1:32:54 PM   
joebunn2001


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As a Liberal who sometimes uses the term "Progressive" to characterize myself, I would like to comment on why some feel it is helpful to use one term or the other depending on to whom you are speaking.

It is my opinion that the success of the Republican Party-especially among those citizens whose support of them has been most personally harmful-is that they have managed to use hot-button words and issues to sell their own hidden agenda, without clearly delineating the REAL reason they support something. I firmly believe that very few thinking people would support the Republican Party if they bothered to learn more about what their policies are designed to actually do-and what they have done-instead of just hearing a hot-button word or name for something that does the opposite of what it claims to do. The  Atwater Republicans have learned many things extremely well and one of them is to stop people from thinking and have them judge issues instead on no more information than can be printed on a bumper sticker! They know the average American is too lazy (or over-worked) to spend time educating themselves about everything so, they introduce an act to open the air to far greater polution and call it a "Clean Air Act". Who doesn't see the value of preserving the environment? The same thing applies to the "Clean Water Act" which allows greatly increased amounts of polution to be dumped into our rivers and streams. They introduce a "Patriot Act" and take away the personal freedoms our forefathers-the REAL Patriots-fought and died to win for us. In short, a thinker, almost by definition CANNOT be or stay a Republican!

For example, "Death Tax"; now WHO would support a "Death Tax", right? But they sold the idea to their supporters by claiming family farms were being lost and businesses were being put down by these taxes. When those claims were finally researched, not a single example of either event was found to have happened! So, who benefits? Surprise! The wealthiest Americans ONLY! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/reagan-the-redistributor_b_138428.html: And for those Policy Wonks who want to know all about the subject: http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/estattax/estattax.htm

Another example: The Republicans scream against Roe v Wade constantly. Why, when they had an Anti-Abortion President, Congress AND Supreme Court for 6 YEARS, was NOTHING done to change the law? Is it perhaps because once that highly emotional and most devisive topic is settled, single-issue Christians and trailer park Republicans might look at other issues and wonder why our economy is based on credit and we no longer have a manufacturing base or a thriving middle class after 30 years of Reaganomics? I think so!

Now, with that established I will explain why I sometimes call myself a Progressive rather than a liberal. Because Lee Atwater was successful in making Liberal a "bad" word which INSTANTLY clamps many listener's ears and minds shut, the only way to get some people to listen and actually hear the TRUTH about we Patriots who oppose the Republican policies is to use a milder term to describe one's beliefs. That is the BEST way to fight the fear, hate, greed and prejudice that feed most Republican's enthusiasm for their party's policies. If I ask a self-described Conservative if they are happy about the 40 Hr work week, the elimination of child labor, Free Public Education for their kids, the social security their parents live on, the work place rules that keep them safe, the clean air and water laws that greatly reduced death rates and so on and so forth, almost all will agree those are most of the BEST things our government ever did for the average citizen. Then, if you ask them to name a SINGLE THING the Republicans have done to improve their lives, they will stutter and fumble around and finally they may say, well they keep taxes low  or they have kept us safe. When I point out that taxes are a tiny fraction now of what they were for the richest and that they are actually paying the tax burdon they used to pay and that the difference is made up ONLY by them BORROWING the money to run the Goverment and for their corporate welfare programs and that they are "keeping us safe by maintaining a huge Army AND hiring their private armys (Blackwater, etc) to fight our wars. When I tell them it was Progressives-also known as Liberals or Democrats who are most responsible for virtually every bit of each of the laws and programs they agree are the most positive in their own lives being on the books today, most are shocked!

It is by keeping people from thinking by appealing to their baser nature that the Republicans have killed our economy, killed our Manufacturing base, put the small remaining middle class on life support, HUGELY enriched the wealthiest 1% of our population while creating the largest gaps in income in history, shifted the tax burdon from the wealthiest Americans and the biggest corporations to the middle class and those former middle class citizens who are now poor class and given us one Great Depression and put us on the brink of another.      

So, yes I AM a LIBERAL, but sometimes I use the term Progressive so I can get around the 30 years of classical conditioning the Reagans, Limbaughs, Hannitys, Bushs, Cheneys, Roves, Atwaters, Savages and Becks of the world have visited upon those who are too intellectually lazy or hate-filled, prejudiced, bitter or gullible as to believe their propaganda. 

Have a nice, well-informed day.

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 1:53:21 PM   
kittinSol


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Thanks for that, Joe :-) . 

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 2:50:00 PM   
Cagey18


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I think I just popped a chubby after reading that.

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RE: Hillary Clinton, "progressive?" - 1/22/2009 3:30:17 PM   
variation30


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progressive is a dirtier word than liberal.

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