Am I expecting to much?

Am I expecting to much? (Full Version)

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girlyduck -> Am I expecting to much? (1/9/2006 3:54:29 PM)
Hello all, I'm not sure if this has been asked some where before, but I've been struggling with this for a while now, and thought you good people might be able to help me out. Is dominance something that can be learned, or is it just something you are? I know that seems over-simplified, and I'll try and clarify without getting to wordy. I meet my husband online. Online he is very dominate, and it transfered to r/l in a lot of areas, (mainly sexually) but not to the extent I'd hoped/expected. We've discussed this and he says he's wants to learn, and it's something he'll have to work on as treating women a certain way is how he was programmed from and early age, and a Dom/sub relationship goes against that. A part of me thinks he's saying he wants to learn because he knows it's what I want, which I think defeats the whole thing. The rest of me goes along with what he says, because it is what I want. Is this something he can learn? If so are there ways I can help him, besides encouraging it? Should I even encourage it, or should I step back and let it be something he comes to on his own? Basicially the whole thing has me confused. Help?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/9/2006 4:01:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girlyduck Is dominance something that can be learned, or is it just something you are? Yes quote: A part of me thinks he's saying he wants to learn because he knows it's what I want, which I think defeats the whole thing. The rest of me goes along with what he says, because it is what I want. Is this something he can learn? If so are there ways I can help him, besides encouraging it? Should I even encourage it, or should I step back and let it be something he comes to on his own? Basicially the whole thing has me confused. Help? Generally the orientation and personality is innate. However, just because you are a bisexual, doesn't mean you know how to maintain a relationship with someone else. I think you should encourage it AND let it be something that comes on its own. Mostly just communicate, share fantasies, share ideas, try things out and see if they work. Oh and him wanting to do it because it's what you want does NOT defeat the whole thing, as long he is ALSO doing it because it is truly what works for him.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/9/2006 4:13:48 PM)
quote: Is this something he can learn? If so are there ways I can help him, besides encouraging it? Should I even encourage it, or should I step back and let it be something he comes to on his own? You can learn skills, but it's difficult if not impossible to learn "attitude". Most often the only thing that's needed is confidence. There isn't a "right way". He doesn't have to leave his programmed treatment of woman behind in order to be more dominant. Many of the same things that make a "gentleman" also make a "Master. Again, one of the most important traits in both is confidence. It's interesting to see your reference regarding his dominance being more pronounced on-line versus in person. It's easier to type than interact. The skill sets are different, and it may take some time to adjust to the new up close and personal activity. I don't know if you are involved or have access to any groups or people in your area, but if you do, the best education can come from other lifestyle couples. Try to seek a couple who is also either married or in a long term relationship and talk with them about their dynamic. It doesn't matter if it's a Mistress with male slave versus Master and female slave your there to learn and discuss the dynamic. In lieu of that, refer him to every article or journal you can find that you feel illustrates your situation. Read it together and discuss it. Seeing someone else's opinion or reading about how they interact is a good way to initiate that open honest "communication" everyone always says you need but rarely tells you how to achieve. Good luck!

Kinkypupper -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/9/2006 4:16:57 PM)
Is dominance something that can be learned, or is it just something you are? Either you are or you are not. "Can it be learned" no, The skills can but no you cannot learn to be such... A part of me thinks he's saying he wants to learn because he knows it's what I want, which I think defeats the whole thing. The rest of me goes along with what he says, because it is what I want. VERY VERY true...... Is this something he can learn? If so are there ways I can help him, besides encouraging it? Should I even encourage it, or should I step back and let it be something he comes to on his own? You need to step back and let him do it on his own, To "top" from the bottom will be conterproductive. You can BOTH find a local kink group in the Town you are in and see if there is a "DOM" only group or gathering tho.

Hallittlelolita -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/9/2006 4:22:08 PM)
If he wants this as much as you do he will come around believe me i was in your shoes about half a year ago it took awhile but it is worth waiting believe me, my husband of 4 years is my Master and i am His collared slave. if i were you just tell Him you really want this and wait He will come around if it is meant. Now about encouraging telling him to read stuff and so on do so but lightly. He might be the type who wants to learn on his own i know that is how mine is and He is still learning, there is always time to learn. i hope this helps good luck[;)][:)] Sincerely slavegirl andie and her Master Hal

fastlane -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/9/2006 4:50:39 PM)
I think Dominant behaviour is innate, but it sounds like he has it, as you saw it on line by him. However, It may take him a little more time to completely Dominate you in all aspects of your life, not just sexual, because maybe you took him a bit by surprise? Personalities on-line can be one thing and in real-life, something a bit different, really depends on the two people involved. I think he can learn to be what you want....as long as he wants you to serve him and you are who he wants? I dunno.....I'm still learning! LOL Peace, Kevin

amayos -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/9/2006 5:56:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girlyduck Is dominance something that can be learned, or is it just something you are? On both counts, yes, though I would trust more the "something you are" version. quote: Is this something he can learn? If so are there ways I can help him, besides encouraging it? Should I even encourage it, or should I step back and let it be something he comes to on his own? Of course you should encourage him, but not in a way that is self-serving to your desires. He will unfold with a little encouragement and true submission from you if you guide him gently and respectfully.

girlyduck -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/9/2006 7:57:00 PM)
To start with, Thank you everyone for replying. As I'm full of a million questions/comments I'll not bore you all by trying to respond to everyone. Instead I've narrowed it down to a couple of questions. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth He doesn't have to leave his programmed treatment of woman behind in order to be more dominant. Many of the same things that make a "gentleman" also make a "Master. Again, one of the most important traits in both is confidence. It's interesting to see your reference regarding his dominance being more pronounced on-line versus in person. It's easier to type than interact. The skill sets are different, and it may take some time to adjust to the new up close and personal activity. I agree. And I do believe confidence is the biggest issue. I'm just unsure how to build that confidence up. I think the biggest difference between r/l and o/l for him is his fear of hurting me. No matter how much I assure him, that I'll stop it if it gets to a point I can't handle, he's still afraid of going to far. Not that this is a bad thing, it just comes back to me being unsure of how to encourage him to push his boundries. quote: ORIGINAL: amayos Of course you should encourage him, but not in a way that is self-serving to your desires. He will unfold with a little encouragement and true submission from you if you guide him gently and respectfully. I've been working on learning to submit to him, for the sake of submitting, instead of because of his desire for it. If that makes any sense. Submitting for the sake of submitting. Hoping that this will build his confidence at the same time. Letting him see that I'm not going to "knock him back" (for want of a better term) when he does have the dominate moment. Asking his opinion, and often times his permission for things. All though I don't think he realizes I do this, it's often as subtle as, "honey, I love those shoes. Can I buy them?" Is this the type of thing I should be doing? It's often hard to tell if what I'm doing is self serving or not, especially when the two arent always exclusive.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/9/2006 8:39:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girlyduck Is this the type of thing I should be doing? It's often hard to tell if what I'm doing is self serving or not, especially when the two arent always exclusive. There's no reason they SHOULD be exclusive, your relationship SHOULD serve you. If you like it and he likes it and it both brings you to a place of more fulfillment- then you're doing the right thing together. It's fabulous that you can submit AND enjoy it directly. The problem is when you try and manipulate him to get what you want, regardless of what he wants. That's not healthy in any sort of relationship and it definitely undermines the authority you sincerely want him to have. Otherwise, just enjoy. If you start worrying that everything you do "won't look or sound right" then you're not just listening to your inner self and being true to that.

SirKenin -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/9/2006 9:33:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Many of the same things that make a "gentleman" also make a "Master. I would love to learn more. What things are You suggesting here? This is one of the very things I struggle with, although I have never so much as mentioned it before now.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/10/2006 4:08:21 AM)
quote: I think the biggest difference between r/l and o/l for him is his fear of hurting me. In my book, no Master will want to want to hurt his property. This shows he sees value in you. quote: No matter how much I assure him, that I'll stop it if it gets to a point I can't handle, he's still afraid of going to far. Not that this is a bad thing, it just comes back to me being unsure of how to encourage him to push his boundries.[/ Who's in control here, him or you? Look, you can encourage all you want but if he does not want to push his boundries then that is his decision. As the Master of the house he has final say. Quit trying to bottom-top him into doing things and follow his lead. quote: I've been working on learning to submit to him, for the sake of submitting, instead of because of his desire for it. If that makes any sense. Submitting for the sake of submitting. This, IMNSHO, is wrong. You should be submitting because your husband desires it. If he does not desire it then you're making him into something he's not. There by having a relationship that is really just a lie. Did you marry him for who he is, or who you thought you could make him into? Also, submitting just for the sake of submitting cheapens your submission, again IMNSHO. This tells me that joe-jackass can come in off the street and you'ld submit to him just the same as you would to your husband. You're submission then has no value to you, your Master or joe. quote: "honey, I love those shoes. Can I buy them?" Instead of honey, call him sir. Instead of sugar coating it with "I love those shoes", just be direct. Sir, may I buy those shoes? quote: It's often hard to tell if what I'm doing is self serving or not, especially when the two arent always exclusive. This whole thing is self-serving. You don't seem to be accepting the man you married for who he is, just what you can make him into. You can put as much paint as you want to cover the stripes of a zebra but underneath, it's still a zebra.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/10/2006 7:20:36 AM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Many of the same things that make a "gentleman" also make a "Master. I would love to learn more. What things are You suggesting here? This is one of the very things I struggle with, although I have never so much as mentioned it before now. Kenin, In general terms a gentleman knows and follows societies protocols, is comfortable in all social settings and knows how to act appropriately in a variety of them. He exudes confidence, can maintain and initiate conversation on a number of subjects. He is witty and charming. He is focused on his goals, and assesses regularly if he has taken the necessary steps toward them. He continues to learn throughout his life. He never feels "finished", there is always room for improvement. Always open to new experiences and perspectives that test or challenge his beliefs, even if they don't change them. He assumes responsibility for his life and those who is he responsible. He isn't influenced by the latest trend and doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. He isn't afraid to show his emotions. He enjoys life, laughs regularly and often, and can do so at himself. A Dominant does all of that in the context of the BDSM relationship. He has gone through the self-assessment process, KNOWS what he seeks, more importantly WHY he seeks them, and doesn't compromise. He is able to clearly and definitively describe his "ideal" person and the relationship he seeks with him/her. Once successful in finding a slave who is compatible with him, he becomes her Master. His actions within the relationship are consistent. He is firm but fair in discipline, and initiates training of his slave that is focused on achieving the relationship goal he has set. There is no need to compromise those "gentlemanly" traits; he shouldn't have to "play a role" as Master, it's a fundamental part of who he is. In public he is a person his slave can be proud. He is proud of her as well, and she never has reason to doubt that is the case. He respects and values his possessions and knows that the most valuable possession he has is his slave. Do you have to be a "gentleman" to be a Master? NO. But being one doesn't exclude being the other.

mistoferin -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/10/2006 8:05:56 AM)
quote: Kenin, In general terms a gentleman knows and follows societies protocols, is comfortable in all social settings and knows how to act appropriately in a variety of them. He exudes confidence, can maintain and initiate conversation on a number of subjects. He is witty and charming. He is focused on his goals, and assesses regularly if he has taken the necessary steps toward them. He continues to learn throughout his life. He never feels "finished", there is always room for improvement. Always open to new experiences and perspectives that test or challenge his beliefs, even if they don't change them. He assumes responsibility for his life and those who is he responsible. He isn't influenced by the latest trend and doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. He isn't afraid to show his emotions. He enjoys life, laughs regularly and often, and can do so at himself. A Dominant does all of that in the context of the BDSM relationship. He has gone through the self-assessment process, KNOWS what he seeks, more importantly WHY he seeks them, and doesn't compromise. He is able to clearly and definitively describe his "ideal" person and the relationship he seeks with him/her. Once successful in finding a slave who is compatible with him, he becomes her Master. His actions within the relationship are consistent. He is firm but fair in discipline, and initiates training of his slave that is focused on achieving the relationship goal he has set. There is no need to compromise those "gentlemanly" traits; he shouldn't have to "play a role" as Master, it's a fundamental part of who he is. In public he is a person his slave can be proud. He is proud of her as well, and she never has reason to doubt that is the case. He respects and values his possessions and knows that the most valuable possession he has is his slave. Do you have to be a "gentleman" to be a Master? NO. But being one doesn't exclude being the other. Merc, do you have an identical twin brother by chance? THAT was awesome!!!

SirKenin -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/10/2006 1:18:07 PM)
That was awesome. I agree. That was exactly what I was looking for. I have struggled with that issue for months. That will not be the last time I read that post either as I digest it's application to Me.. Thank You for that.

amayos -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/10/2006 2:10:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girlyduck To start with, Thank you everyone for replying. As I'm full of a million questions/comments I'll not bore you all by trying to respond to everyone. Instead I've narrowed it down to a couple of questions. quote: ORIGINAL: amayos Of course you should encourage him, but not in a way that is self-serving to your desires. He will unfold with a little encouragement and true submission from you if you guide him gently and respectfully. I've been working on learning to submit to him, for the sake of submitting, instead of because of his desire for it. If that makes any sense. Submitting for the sake of submitting. Hoping that this will build his confidence at the same time. Letting him see that I'm not going to "knock him back" (for want of a better term) when he does have the dominate moment. Asking his opinion, and often times his permission for things. All though I don't think he realizes I do this, it's often as subtle as, "honey, I love those shoes. Can I buy them?" Is this the type of thing I should be doing? It's often hard to tell if what I'm doing is self serving or not, especially when the two arent always exclusive. Yes, being open repeatedly shows him you are supplicant to His will. Over time he will begin taking the natural mantle of dominant male. Our society is so androgynous and politically correct that many men, when "asked" to be dominant, shy away from the role completely out of confusion or discomfort. You must become an active undoer, in a sense. May I suggest further reading, or at the very least, a glimpse into what I personally believe a Master to be? This may be of use to you, or may not. Take from it what you may. http://www.humbledfemales.com/whatisamaster.html

amayos -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/10/2006 2:21:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross It's fabulous that you can submit AND enjoy it directly. The problem is when you try and manipulate him to get what you want, regardless of what he wants. That's not healthy in any sort of relationship and it definitely undermines the authority you sincerely want him to have. Otherwise, just enjoy. If you start worrying that everything you do "won't look or sound right" then you're not just listening to your inner self and being true to that. Btw, an excellent point LuckyAlbatross makes here.

girlyduck -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/10/2006 7:04:58 PM)
Again thank you all. This has given me a lot to think about, or NOT to think about as the case may be. LuckyAlbatross, Some day I'll learn to stop over thinking things. Merc, a wonderful post and one my husband has asked me to print out for him. MrDiscipline, I'm sorry, but did you read my post? No where did I say he wanted to be to a "Master". We have or should say are trying to build more of an HOH type relationship with a bdsm twist. This is something he's asked me to help him with, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to do that at his direction. As for the " Did you marry him for who he is, or who you thought you could make him into? " I married him for who he is, and for who he told me he wants to be. I'm happy to accept him either way. amayos, Thank you once again. You stated very well what I've been trying to say here. An active undoer, by being a nondoer in many cases. I can't believe I didn't know humbledfemales had more than just the community.

dincubus -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/10/2006 11:59:03 PM)
I believe that it can be learned, i am making strides in learning all the time. i have had that same, i would not call it programming, i would call it more, proper raising by my parents. it is often difficult for me to overcome the basic thought "pain can = pleasure". it is somethign i have to work through and i am making great progress in it quote: ORIGINAL: girlyduck Hello all, I'm not sure if this has been asked some where before, but I've been struggling with this for a while now, and thought you good people might be able to help me out. Is dominance something that can be learned, or is it just something you are? I know that seems over-simplified, and I'll try and clarify without getting to wordy. I meet my husband online. Online he is very dominate, and it transfered to r/l in a lot of areas, (mainly sexually) but not to the extent I'd hoped/expected. We've discussed this and he says he's wants to learn, and it's something he'll have to work on as treating women a certain way is how he was programmed from and early age, and a Dom/sub relationship goes against that. A part of me thinks he's saying he wants to learn because he knows it's what I want, which I think defeats the whole thing. The rest of me goes along with what he says, because it is what I want. Is this something he can learn? If so are there ways I can help him, besides encouraging it? Should I even encourage it, or should I step back and let it be something he comes to on his own? Basicially the whole thing has me confused. Help?

IronBear -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/12/2006 12:15:47 PM)
Generally speaking, I'd say dominance is something you are born with and which is developed over the years. Confidence you can aquire and attitude you can (with help) develop. How you apply it is something which may need some assistance and this applies to skills to. A good role model helps in the early days.

Focus50 -> RE: Am I expecting to much? (1/13/2006 2:04:22 PM)
If he's got to "learn" dominance like it's an additional skill necessary to get a job, he'll ultimately find it unrewarding and tire of it. There's a huge difference between leading (as a Dom independently does) and being put in charge - as he knows you want him to be! The second is NOT his need! As far as I'm concerned, learning to be a dom (or sub) has about the same credibility as learning to be gay - he either always was or never will be. No matter how much society programs us to behave in a certain manner during our formative years, it doesn't erase our fantasies and driving inner needs. We all go through a period of self doubt because of them, that the prospect of oneself being "damaged" because my needs aren't generally acceptable in a vanilla relationship can be daunting. However, meeting a complimenting submissive also becomes a huge pressure release from one's frustrations and I'm sceptical of any so-called "dom" who still uses the societal excuse to continue explaining his apparent reluctance to do what should come naturally to a Dom - to dominate! And my experience of Forums is that nothing confuses a sub more than a vanilla masquerading as a Dom! Especially one who then uses vanilla society to explain away his bdsm shortcomings. It's called an "alternative lifestyle" for a reason; if he's not jumping at the chance to release a lifetime of taboo inhibitions, it's because he doesn't have any - and he doesn't belong here! Focus.

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