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"The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 10:09:12 AM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline 		On another forum I frequent someone brought up the idea of having a 'list' of things that someone you plan on making a significant other should know... I know that, personally I won't consider any other 'significant' until after we've been dating for a while and have both come to this point. Usually I also won't be having, er, intimate relationships with people I'm dating until after they're significant purely because it can complicate things. So I'm interested to see others' lists of things that they try to make sure any person they plan on seriously dating knows.

Once I turn the corner from casual dating to making them a 'significant' other... here's my biggies:

1) In case you haven't noticed by now, I have bipolar disorder. Medication, for me, is only mildly affective, and there will be times I lash out in anger (unreasonably and for no reason) or withdraw into a depression (similarly unreasonably and for no reason). Don't assume that any of it is your fault or that you have to fix it or take care of me, and if you suspect I'm having one of these swings, and I haven't told you, ASK ME because if I haven't noticed it by the time someone else has, that's half the problem, and that way you can better handle interactions with me during.

2) You probably know this by now as well... but I am gay. I'm not bisexual, I'm not interested only in some girls or girls with specific traits... I'm gay. I'm very proud of who I am, and I'm seeking someone similar. I'm not looking for someone who can't handle it within themselves, but I don't mind helping you along the 'rough' patches as long as you do the same for me.

3) I am both geeky and very talkative. I will talk to you about geeky stuff quite often... you have my permission to think it's cute and dismiss it sometimes unless I tell you it's important, but not to get irritated. In fact, if you're not slightly geeky... how the hell did we start dating?

4) Sex is an important part of a romantic relationship (for me). I'm not saying 'bone me now to prove that we can take this further' but I am saying that once we start having sex I will ask for it. Often. Probably multiple times per day. I understand that that's unreasonable for some people, but keep in mind that it's a major compliment to you, and I will be happy with just once a day (less if there's literally no time). If I'm not asking for sex on a regular basis (at least once per day) then there is likely a problem (or I need it more than anything and haven't noticed) and I probably see the relationship as doomed. If you ask or instigate sex more often than me, don't feel bad... I'm probably floating in heaven!

5) On the same vein; for me sex with a romantic partner is not about MY pleasure, it's about theirs. Typically that's ALL that matters to me. If this conflicts with you (because you feel the same way or for some other reason) we're liable to be completely incompatible and nothing more than friends (see number 4)

6) On the same vein; I do have 'kinky' needs (in other words, a borderline fetish). If you cannot bring yourself to fulfill them (ever, or even just the sometimes I need them), understand that I will find someone else to (and it in no way will hurt the relationship) and tell you beforehand.  (Of course, since it's not a kink forum anything more said than this would have been against the rules. Namely the most important thing, for me, in this regard is satisfying my masochism. I don't get 'the twinge' (or need) terribly often, but when I do it's pretty much all-encompassing. I also enjoy it even when I don't have 'the twinge' too)

7) I don't believe having sex with someone else is cheating. This doesn't mean that I'm going to be promiscuous or have 10,000 boyfriends on the side, though. However I DO adhere to mono-amory (the idea that there will only be each of us in the role as a romantic partner for the other) as a default. As long as we're both completely honest (and careful) about sexual partners outside the relationship, and still fulfilling ourselves within it, I'm pretty much good to go. If you cannot separate romance and sex, there may need to be a discussion about this (as this isn't a *major* sticking point, it's just my fundamental philosophy. I can function very well in a monogamous relationship, I just do not think it's natural).

8) I'm ridiculously touchy-feely. I will be so with you, and likely with a good deal of friends. I have a daily quota of human contact that I need to fulfill (to put a humorous spin on it). Cuddling, hand-holding, pecks on the cheek, quick goodbye kisses and many 'I love yous' (once we get to that point) will be expected (and given).

9) I want to know everything about you. No, seriously. EVERYTHING. I will ask you questions about yourself and never get bored of your answers. Likewise, if you want to know anything about me you have only to ask. I will also not tolerate lying (as I hope you wouldn't in me). I find talking about my partner incredible.

10) If you feel you cannot love me (either now or later) I need to know ASAP. I will give you the same courtesy. There's nothing worse than a relationship where the love has atrophied, or worse where one partner thinks everything is fine.



Granted, some of these have probably come up (or were already known) before we make that jump, but these ARE the important ones for them to know, for me.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 2:02:29 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Anyone I was *seriously dating* will have already have discovered enough to be keen.  I really wouldn't do a list like this at all.

If M and I had had a list , both of us would have run in opposite direction.

There is far too much about me that is a contradiction to make any hard and fast list .......... I adore things with M that in a *list* I'd say * I hate*.....and I could jolly well hate it with anyone else but him.

Even something as seemingly fundamental as being touched or cuddled.....I would never have imagined that I'd ever have ended up with someone where that was quite minimal.

I think that if you really want other people to define you according to your list , then fine. I know that lists are limiting , for me.

agirl



(in reply to aravain)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 2:19:12 PM   
pompeii


Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain
the idea of having a 'list' of things that someone you plan on making a significant other should know...


I'd have 'em ..
a. Read my Myers-Briggs personality profile test;
b. Read my last five 1040s;
c. Read my last 100 emails.

That, in and of itself, will tell 'em more about me than they wanna know!

(in reply to aravain)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 3:06:41 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		My policy is to tell the other person that all they have to do is ask and they shall find out.

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(in reply to pompeii)
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RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 3:44:14 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

On another forum I frequent someone brought up the idea of having a 'list' of things that someone you plan on making a significant other should know...


"I really meant to tell you about the nitrogen allergy and the Nobel Prize, honest. But after my damn list went through the wash all I could make out were the limericks and dietary requirements (with which I have duly made you familiar.) Oh and plus this one thing about my parrot's thyroid condition. But that's kind of sensitive and I was waiting for the right moment. Are you sitting down?"

Sure I want to share mutually and thoroughly; want to understand and be understood by a partner. For my part I don't see a place in the picture for "lists" though.

Is there something so important that it would warrant a place on this sort of list, but which she will neglect to tell me if she doesn't write it down (or at least memorize it as a list item, per se) somewhere in advance?

So I guess I don't have a list. Maybe the only list item I particularly want to be informed of by a prospective partner is "Don't trust myself to become well acquainted without a crib sheet."

... which might not be a deal killer but I'm thinking it would get my attention.

Now maybe you have something else in mind than what your list idea has conjured up in me. I'm sorry if I've missed a key point. Can you explain how this sort of list is, for you, something other than the Mnemonic Device for Unforgettable Items it strikes me as?

Thanks.




(in reply to aravain)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 3:56:44 PM   
feydeplume


Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline 		Love me, love my computer.
Sometimes i just don't answer the phone because i don't want to talk. It's nothing against you, it's all about me.
I will only be happy to meet your parents after you have been in my life for more than a few weeks. I am not a stand in date to get your mom off your back or to piss your parents off.
Yes I really do like murder mysteries that much. And yes i will continue to enjoy them and no i don't want to learn to love romance novels.
Date movie= big explosions on the screen, not weeping into popcorn.
No i don't a cuter shoes. these are comfortable and i like em. get over it.

you mean things like that?


_____________________________

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If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 5:32:27 PM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline 		I hate being so inarticulate I'm misunderstood, but it seems like this happens every time I post

I don't necessarily mean that you'd present it in a list to them (actually, that's kind of dehumanizing the entire situation in my opinion). I meant, just a list of the things you'd be sure that they would know before you became 'significant others' (though the original post, which is where I copied my answers from, on the other forum DID say something along the lines of 'if you had to make a list and give it to them' I meant more in the sense of, 'I want this person to know these things about me before we become more involved.')

So it's less of a thing that you'd present to them, and more things that you would make sure they know (somewhere along the line) before becoming deeply involved.

(in reply to agirl)
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RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 7:47:30 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I think it is very sensible to have such a list of what you need and what you can't tolerate. And I see nothing wrong in keeping it in a desk drawer and comparing your hot new date to it before getting into a situation that will go south badly later on.

If you know that watching hockey games is something you can never abide, and your new date has had season's tickets to the Rangers for the last ten years, then you are never going to bridge that gap.

But yes, medical disclosures are in there, and those of us with mood disorders learn to bring them up quickly as getting in deep and then being thrown over on account of them will make us feel really bad. The rest I think of as must haves and deal breakers.

For The Man, the top of his deal breaker list is smoking. He can't stand walking by someone who smokes whereas I don't much mind it. For me? Someone who doesn't see any value in therapy and hasn't ever worked on his issues. Everybody has baggage, smart people learn to handle it. I use an accountant for tax problems and a therapist for emotional problems.

Must haves for me include a heavily sexual relationship and bondage, and having ums of his own to whom he is as devoted as I am to mine. Don't pay child support and I don't respect you. Don't see them or have a space for them to stay with you and I don't respect you. I am very judgmental on these issues.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to aravain)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 9:48:47 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Between my profile and my journal entries, I've left an extensive paper trail of confusing and conflicting ideas of the woman I am looking for.
Currently on my profile:
The women in my life (friends, daughters and mother) have told me what kind of woman they think I should look for. I will share that with you:
T (in college) thinks I need a Goth girlfriend. She thinks I’m hip and cool enough that she would interest and captivate me. She would go to coffee shops and have long talks with me. She would love me for my warped view of the world and understand me better than women my age. I would accept her as she is, not trying to force her into some mold. T thinks I was born in the wrong generation.
My mother thinks I should find someone that is wise in the ways of the world. She would have to be smart to interest me and she would have to learn to put up with many of my traits that she thinks I share with my father(another damn old cowboy).
A good friend thinks I should have a woman who will accept my children and me.
My twins (girls age 8) think I need a beautiful princess, because I’m such a wonderful man. I love how they love me.

Since a person's age doesn't matter to me that much, they are all right in their own way. So, I need a goth style princess, who is slightly bent but wise in the ways of the world. She will accept my children and I. Where are you my dear?

I also elaborate:
I’m looking for a strong, complex woman who will take my breath away when I look at her and dazzle me with her intelligence. I want a woman who is smart, philosophical, childlike, mature, wild but needing to be led. I want and need the woman who can submit to the scholar, the cowboy, the gentleman, the barbarian, the ummm, and the father that is me.

Then I go on for pages and pages more. :)
I figure this will prove if they are literate. :)

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 9:59:02 PM   
NYLass


Posts: 409
Joined: 12/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy

Between my profile and my journal entries, I've left an extensive paper trail of confusing and conflicting ideas of the woman I am looking for.
Currently on my profile:
The women in my life (friends, daughters and mother) have told me what kind of woman they think I should look for. I will share that with you:
T (in college) thinks I need a Goth girlfriend. She thinks I’m hip and cool enough that she would interest and captivate me. She would go to coffee shops and have long talks with me. She would love me for my warped view of the world and understand me better than women my age. I would accept her as she is, not trying to force her into some mold. T thinks I was born in the wrong generation.
My mother thinks I should find someone that is wise in the ways of the world. She would have to be smart to interest me and she would have to learn to put up with many of my traits that she thinks I share with my father(another damn old cowboy).
A good friend thinks I should have a woman who will accept my children and me.
My twins (girls age 8) think I need a beautiful princess, because I’m such a wonderful man. I love how they love me.

Since a person's age doesn't matter to me that much, they are all right in their own way. So, I need a goth style princess, who is slightly bent but wise in the ways of the world. She will accept my children and I. Where are you my dear?

I also elaborate:
I’m looking for a strong, complex woman who will take my breath away when I look at her and dazzle me with her intelligence. I want a woman who is smart, philosophical, childlike, mature, wild but needing to be led. I want and need the woman who can submit to the scholar, the cowboy, the gentleman, the barbarian, the ummm, and the father that is me.

Then I go on for pages and pages more. :)
I figure this will prove if they are literate. :)


Oh my...

(in reply to MidMichCowboy)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 10:34:02 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		I am pretty fast about forging bonds . . . I’ll take ownership in 90 days or less.  I figure if we don’t know by then, there is something amiss or not enough chemistry and we should just move on.   I have been blessed and very lucky that the majority of my life has been spent paired with awesome people as partner(s).  In the spirit of fast mutual exposure, I built a web site to make the “Fine Print” readily available answering things like:

My FAQs
My History
My Kind of Girl
My Kind of BDSM
About Me
Etc…      

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to NYLass)
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RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/24/2009 11:02:51 PM   
SummerWind


Posts: 314
Joined: 7/4/2007
Status: offline 		 
I made sure she knew that we'll never make a list as a way to communicate anything.

(in reply to aravain)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/25/2009 6:44:45 AM   
Petruchio


Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline 		aravain, that's a pretty good list for anybody of any orientation.

Nice job.

(in reply to SummerWind)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/25/2009 6:47:19 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		If we are at the point of seriously dating, then there are no surprises---hell My trainee isn't even at that point and he knows more about Me than anyone outside of family.

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to aravain)
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RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/25/2009 6:56:27 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

I hate being so inarticulate I'm misunderstood, but it seems like this happens every time I post

I don't necessarily mean that you'd present it in a list to them (actually, that's kind of dehumanizing the entire situation in my opinion). I meant, just a list of the things you'd be sure that they would know before you became 'significant others' (though the original post, which is where I copied my answers from, on the other forum DID say something along the lines of 'if you had to make a list and give it to them' I meant more in the sense of, 'I want this person to know these things about me before we become more involved.')

So it's less of a thing that you'd present to them, and more things that you would make sure they know (somewhere along the line) before becoming deeply involved.


Thank you for this clarification!  I agree that while some people find it easier to keep their thoughts organized with lists, being presented with a big long list of "this is me" could be rather daunting! 

Sure, there are things I believe a dominant should know about me before actually taking on that position.  Most of these things come about in conversation, others come about in circumstance (ie; the reason I reacted that way is because of my history with xyz...).  To the man I was most recently seeing, we made light of my saying "I'm complicated" by later deciding "complex" was a much nicer word...heh.    Through the course of talking and spending time together, those "complexities" came out and were talked about.

In turn, he shared things with me that he felt I should know about him, which helped a great deal in understanding  where he was coming from.  In both cases, these things weren't shared up front but along the way when they seemed appropriate.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to aravain)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/25/2009 7:26:07 AM   
YoursMistress


Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline 		aravain and ResidentSadist , 

I am completely impressed and intimidated by the depth and breadth of detail each of you have communicated.  I don't even know the answers to many of the questions I pose to myself after reading yours.  My own voyage of self-discovery began about a year and a half ago.  At this rate, I suspect it will be a long time before I am able to contemplate, let alone draft, a similar compilation of my "fine print". 

yours


_____________________________

May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/25/2009 7:43:56 AM   
SultryItalian


Posts: 125
Joined: 7/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NYLass

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy

Between my profile and my journal entries, I've left an extensive paper trail of confusing and conflicting ideas of the woman I am looking for.
Currently on my profile:
The women in my life (friends, daughters and mother) have told me what kind of woman they think I should look for. I will share that with you:
T (in college) thinks I need a Goth girlfriend. She thinks I’m hip and cool enough that she would interest and captivate me. She would go to coffee shops and have long talks with me. She would love me for my warped view of the world and understand me better than women my age. I would accept her as she is, not trying to force her into some mold. T thinks I was born in the wrong generation.
My mother thinks I should find someone that is wise in the ways of the world. She would have to be smart to interest me and she would have to learn to put up with many of my traits that she thinks I share with my father(another damn old cowboy).
A good friend thinks I should have a woman who will accept my children and me.
My twins (girls age 8) think I need a beautiful princess, because I’m such a wonderful man. I love how they love me.

Since a person's age doesn't matter to me that much, they are all right in their own way. So, I need a goth style princess, who is slightly bent but wise in the ways of the world. She will accept my children and I. Where are you my dear?

I also elaborate:
I’m looking for a strong, complex woman who will take my breath away when I look at her and dazzle me with her intelligence. I want a woman who is smart, philosophical, childlike, mature, wild but needing to be led. I want and need the woman who can submit to the scholar, the cowboy, the gentleman, the barbarian, the ummm, and the father that is me.

Then I go on for pages and pages more. :)
I figure this will prove if they are literate. :)


Oh my...



That's what I said.

(in reply to NYLass)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/25/2009 5:32:31 PM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Sure, there are things I believe a dominant should know about me before actually taking on that position.  Most of these things come about in conversation, others come about in circumstance (ie; the reason I reacted that way is because of my history with xyz...).


For everyone else this is essentially what I meant XD

What sort of things are important, to you, for any potential partner to know...

most often these things come across in conversation or observation. I know every single one of mine did before my last relationship became 'official'.

It's more of a thought experiment, really. What sort of things do you find important to bring up (even if subconsciously)? Like I said in my other post, this would hardly be presented to them in a list format... ever (in my case), but would be brought up in conversation before we make the 'leap' to significance. If anything hadn't been, I'd demur until we knew each other better, or if it was just one issue that might be a deal-breaker I'd bring it up then (I wouldn't flat out unload the entire list ).

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/25/2009 5:44:48 PM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline 		@YoursMistress-

Most of mine aren't BDSM-related, or even related to any self-discovery beyond simply living (and at 21 years, I haven't been doing it anywhere near as long as many others). A major impact of my #1 means a lot of introspection and thought about what I need, what I want, and what I need to shed and get rid of. It's a helpful process to go through, because inevitably you get to what you need, want, and can't have within a relationship as well. That, for me, always drives me to think about what of me would cause difficulties within a relationship, things that I can't, or don't want to, change, things that anyone has ever found irritating, or unbearable. That's where my 'list' comes from.

@Petruchio-

Why thank you I do try hard.

(in reply to YoursMistress)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: "The Fine Print" - 1/25/2009 6:17:11 PM   
auburnvixen


Posts: 92
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SultryItalian

quote:

ORIGINAL: NYLass

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy

Between my profile and my journal entries, I've left an extensive paper trail of confusing and conflicting ideas of the woman I am looking for.
Currently on my profile:
The women in my life (friends, daughters and mother) have told me what kind of woman they think I should look for. I will share that with you:
T (in college) thinks I need a Goth girlfriend. She thinks I’m hip and cool enough that she would interest and captivate me. She would go to coffee shops and have long talks with me. She would love me for my warped view of the world and understand me better than women my age. I would accept her as she is, not trying to force her into some mold. T thinks I was born in the wrong generation.
My mother thinks I should find someone that is wise in the ways of the world. She would have to be smart to interest me and she would have to learn to put up with many of my traits that she thinks I share with my father(another damn old cowboy).
A good friend thinks I should have a woman who will accept my children and me.
My twins (girls age 8) think I need a beautiful princess, because I’m such a wonderful man. I love how they love me.

Since a person's age doesn't matter to me that much, they are all right in their own way. So, I need a goth style princess, who is slightly bent but wise in the ways of the world. She will accept my children and I. Where are you my dear?

I also elaborate:
I’m looking for a strong, complex woman who will take my breath away when I look at her and dazzle me with her intelligence. I want a woman who is smart, philosophical, childlike, mature, wild but needing to be led. I want and need the woman who can submit to the scholar, the cowboy, the gentleman, the barbarian, the ummm, and the father that is me.

Then I go on for pages and pages more. :)
I figure this will prove if they are literate. :)


Oh my...



That's what I said.



I emailed him about a week ago when I stumbled upon his profile, and told him he had the best profile I'd ever seen, anywhere.

_____________________________

"Submissive Alpha Female"
If you're not taking flak, you're not over the target.
'Change' is not a destination, just as 'hope' is not a strategy. - Rudy Giuliani

(in reply to SultryItalian)
Profile   Post #: 20
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