A completely silly question..... (Full Version)

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Ph0enixF1re -> A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 6:25:24 AM)

So this comes as an offshoot of the pansexual discussion, which I found quite interesting.  A question that has come up a couple of times in conversation (never had to answer personally) is this:

If you have sex with a hermaphrodite (intersexual), but only use the genetalia of your opposite gender, is it still a homosexual act?  It is only a question in a legal sense I think, because homosexual acts are typicaly defined as sex between the same gender, which a hermaphrodite is, since they have both.

A big part of the answer I suppose is how you define the basis of homosexuality....based on genetics or as a result of choice.  I am not here to argue one side or the other on that question, but it would help the context of your answer if you mention that.  Either way, it is what it is....either there is no choice or it is that persons right to choose...so please don't make assume that it matters to the question one way or the other.



feydeplume -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 6:56:06 AM)

First guess? It would depend more on the inter-sexed person's birth certificate designation. I read some where, years ago, that most inter-sexed babies were classified male so even if they grow up to express more female body traits (boobs, curves, heck ovary pain with ovulation) they are legally men. 



DesFIP -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 7:10:30 AM)

Not unless the intersexed person self identifies as male.



feydeplume -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 7:17:57 AM)

and the person getting it on with them is also male.

I think the tricky part would be to avoid having ANY contact with the physical parts socially identified as "male" or "female" depending on the sex/gender/identity of the person getting squishy the the inter-sexed person.

Edited cause i hit ok before i finished my so-called thought



pompeii -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 7:41:04 AM)

In the United States, for a criminal act, I would wager the judge or jury would first consider the legal birth certificate designation, then the history of the individual (e.g., dress, manner, what friends call them, etc.), and most importantly, I would think, the legal team would "portray" that person as what each side thinks they are.

If the prosecution thinks one way, they'd gather up evidence where the individual "acted" that one way.

In contrast, the defense would gather up volumes of situations where the individual acted the other way.

In summary, I would think, in the USA, it could perhaps fall upon the preponderance of evidence not of what primary or secondary sexual characteristics were being enjoyed at the time the police say the act occurred but, of the manner in which the person acted in a reasonable time frame prior to the act.



feydeplume -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 8:00:07 AM)

how about in a non-legal sense but in a social and personal identity sense. I guess i mean if a single sexed person who self defines as hetero or homosexual has sex with an inter-sexed person that self defines in a compatible way,  how does that single sexed person avoid the "other" bits so as to maintain their (the single sexed person) self defined orientation. WHooo that was wordy... lemme try that again.
Say a het guy has sex with an very womanly inter-sexed person, how would the het guy avoid the male bits and would he (referencing another thread about male sexuality) still "get" to call himself hetero? 



YoursMistress -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 8:14:47 AM)

For me, it is very sad that so many consider it important to characterize or define a relationship ( or congress ) between two people as a "this" or a "that".  One could certainly imagine or fantasize homosexual relations during a heterosexual act.  Does that make it homosexual?  The labels we apply, that seem so important to us, ultimately have no real bearing on the feelings experienced by two people.  While we are seemingly hellbent on separating people into categories, there are innumerable categories that we could use just as easily (does having sex with Debbie make me a debbisexual?)  Having been raised as a Catholic, I remember the same frustrations with people thinking " if you are a Catholic, then you must believe so-and-so.  The application of a label is, to me, a shortcut to assumptions about a person when we are unwilling or unable to invest enough time to understand and appreciate the person.  (Sorry if I ranted a little, no offense intended toward the OP)

yours



ALAstella -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 10:47:24 AM)

How about going by what gender the person identifies themself as, as in a whole, complete person, and not by their individual body parts?

I mean we are still talking about a human being, are we not?



NYLass -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 2:25:42 PM)

Just use the "I thought she had a really big clit" line.



stef -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 3:01:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re

If you have sex with a hermaphrodite (intersexual), but only use the genetalia of your opposite gender, is it still a homosexual act?  It is only a question in a legal sense I think, because homosexual acts are typicaly defined as sex between the same gender, which a hermaphrodite is, since they have both.

While it may be commonly depicted in Japanese comics, true hermaphrodism where the individual has complete functioning sets of both male and female genitalia is not something you're ever likely to encounter in your lifetime.  You would be better off spending your time contemplating who would win if Batman and Aquaman got into a fight, because that's much more likely to happen.

~stef



popeye1250 -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 3:47:38 PM)

Wow, how have I lived for so many years without knowing the answer to this question?



slaveboyforyou -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 4:29:11 PM)

Yep, this is definitely a silly question.  It reminds me of guys who insist they're not gay, because they're exclusively pitchers not catchers. 



Madame4a -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 4:39:59 PM)

sex... having sex... has nothing to do with orientation... sex is a physical act and can sometimes come down to simply a matter of friction...



Carnae7 -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 6:33:30 PM)

Wow!!!  I am rather shocked at the level of ignorance being displayed in this post.  I think the OP and some of the responders seriously need to really learn what an intersexed person is and is not, or else just refrain from posting about this topic. 

quote:

While it may be commonly depicted in Japanese comics, true hermaphrodism where the individual has complete functioning sets of both male and female genitalia is not something you're ever likely to encounter in your lifetime.

As stef said above, I can guarantee there is absolutely NO SUCH THING as a person having BOTH male and female genitalia, functioning or otherwise!  If you see any such thing in porns, or wherever, you can best believe one of the sets of genitalia is false.  Intersexed people have a hard enough time in this society without reading shallow, ignorant comments that perpetuate falsehoods.

quote:

I think the tricky part would be to avoid having ANY contact with the physical parts socially identified as "male" or "female" depending on the sex/gender/identity of the person getting squishy the the inter-sexed person.

And a person absolutely cannot have sex with an intersexed person and 'just avoid having any contact with certain physical parts", as intersexualism is more about which gonads a person has and which secondary sexual traits emerge as the person enters puberty. 

One of the most famous intersexed persons I know of is Jamie Lee Curtis.  She was not raised to specifically be one gender or another.  Thankfully, her parents let her grow up and determine which gender she felt she could most relate to in our very judgemental society and which gender she should display in said society.  While it is fortunate that she had verrry understanding and supportive parents, it is a sad commentary on our society that we want to force people to conform to our narrow ideas, and shove them into boxes or assign labels.  I would have thought that all of us in this lifestyle would be against trying to force others into certain molds, because as a group, we often fail to 'properly' fit into certain categories ourselves.

For those who are honestly interested in learning more about intersexed people, please start with Wikipedia, and then follow through with the references provided.  I think you'll be amazed to learn how very narrow your current understanding is of what constitutes true intersexualism. 



slaveboyforyou -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 6:47:59 PM)

quote:

One of the most famous intersexed persons I know of is Jamie Lee Curtis.  She was not raised to specifically be one gender or another.  Thankfully, her parents let her grow up and determine which gender she felt she could most relate to in our very judgemental society and which gender she should display in said society.  While it is fortunate that she had verrry understanding and supportive parents, it is a sad commentary on our society that we want to force people to conform to our narrow ideas, and shove them into boxes or assign labels.  I would have thought that all of us in this lifestyle would be against trying to force others into certain molds, because as a group, we often fail to 'properly' fit into certain categories ourselves.


The story about Jamie Lee Curtis being intersexed is an urban legend.  It has no basis in fact; it's a rumor. 
http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/jamie.asp

You might not want to use gossip when you lecture others on ethics. 



aravain -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 7:43:12 PM)

Legally it depends on what it says on their birth certificate (M or F) to define if it's homosexual or heterosexual.

I wish there were 'other' and 'none' options, too



Madame4a -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 9:19:50 PM)

uhmm.. how does that work?  legal gender has nothing to do with orientation... there is no such thing as legal orientation

quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

Legally it depends on what it says on their birth certificate (M or F) to define if it's homosexual or heterosexual.

I wish there were 'other' and 'none' options, too




aravain -> RE: A completely silly question..... (1/25/2009 11:19:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re
It is only a question in a legal sense I think, because homosexual acts are typicaly defined as sex between the same gender, which a hermaphrodite is, since they have both.


That's what I was responding to |^|

In places where homosexuality is still illegal (or where 'sodomy' laws include any sexual contact between two men and are prosecuted), any *actual* sexual contact would be the legal way of deciding it *shrug* In this case, a man who has sex (even if he doesn't touch the IS person's dangly bit) with an IS that has a M on their birth certificate, legally they would be able to be prosecuted if homosexuality, or homosexual acts, were illegal.

I wasn't trying to be contrite ;)

EDIT: Note to self: don't let the ends of words fly too far away at 2:20am



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