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RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 9:11:36 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The principle is, protect your home and family. Many on the left can't or won't understand that!

Take Michael Dukakis:

quote:

They stood behind their lecterns. By agreement, Dukakis got to stand on a small sloping platform that was hidden behind his. This hid the fact he was much shorter than Bush.

Shaw, looking commanding and stern, began: "By agreement between the candidates, the first question goes to Gov. Dukakis. You have two minutes to respond: "Governor, if Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?"

In the press room, there were gasps from the reporters.  "Whaaaa?" "Did he really say that?" "Un-BELIEVE-able."

Any TV director worth his headphones would have immediately ordered a camera to get a reaction shot from Kitty, who was sitting in the audience. After all, it was her rape and murder being talked about.

But reaction shots of the candidate's families were expressly forbidden by the debate agreement. So the camera stayed locked on Dukakis.

And Dukakis answered instantly and smoothly. "No, I don't, Bernard," he said. "And I think you know that I've opposed the death penalty during all of my life."

He had been on the record for years and years on that subject. Massachusetts had no death penalty and also had one of the lowest crime rates of any industrialized state in the country. Dukakis didn't believe in capital punishment. He had seen all the studies and he didn't believe it deterred crime.

So should he throw out that principle because the hypothetical victim was now his wife? Is that what principles were all about? They were good when others' loved ones were involved but not good when your own were involved?

In the press room, the murmurs over Shaw's question now turned to mutters over Dukakis' answer. "He's through." "That's all she wrote." "Get the hook!"

The reporters sensed it instantly. Even though the 90-minute debate was only seconds old, they felt it was already over for Dukakis. He had not been warm. He had not been likable. He had not shown emotion. He had merely shown principle.


Maybe you should try actually reading the things you cut and paste. This one doesn't say what you think it does.

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RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 9:17:33 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I think that has more to do with ignorance than party affiliation. The reason I say is that I was speaking to someone the other day that mentioned that she did not like having her family live so close to downtown because it would likely be bombed soon. This person is a hard core Dem.

Fear has been a great motivator for many wrong movements, and the imperialism of the Bush admin just one of them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Here's something I absolutely HATE the Republicans for doing; fomenting this false sense of insecurity among the citizenry.

I don't know how many times I've seen some blue-hair from E. Bumfuck fretting about "tewwowists gonna come bomb our elementry scool and liberry and even our Walmart (Praise be unto Walton)" on FuxGnus.  Get a fucking grip.


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RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 9:23:54 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I suppose that what that history lesson means would all depend on one's political orientation...  and, if you are truly a mind-reader, the CIA might have a job opening for you.

Oh wait - silly me. Something like mind-reading would probably run completely counter to Obama's principles, wouldn't it. At the very least, our agents in the Mideast would probably have to have domestic warrants, Congressional disclosure, and full informed permission from any foreign government involved prior to doing something such as that these days, wouldn't they.

And they would probably have to identify themselves as CIA agents to any terrorist suspects, too. And they would have to have their Miranda rights read to them, and have a lawyer present, and everyone involved would have to be fully aware that the suspect was having his thoughts read...

I mean, after all - we've got principles to live up to!!!

Right?


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Maybe you should try actually reading the things you cut and paste. This one doesn't say what you think it does.






< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/25/2009 9:35:29 AM >

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RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 9:33:58 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		cory,what is you were held by someone who thought(for sure,no doubt or worse,don`t care either way)that you held his family?And that pealing your fingernails off with pliers would make you cooperative?

What about,if using torture extended and worsened conflicts and wars,would you still do it?

What if you were in a life boat and killing and eating the others was the only way to save your family?

The only way to save their lives? Would you ?

How`s that for a loaded question? Not really realist or fair,is it?


Seems like only way around your good conscience ,is to construct these endlessly qualified "IF" scenarios.With ecception after ecception and this cock sure notion that you have someone with vital intel.

If you had guy who knew info and "IF" torturing "MIGHT" saves live would you torture.If,if,if..


If you were more honest,you`d admit all this fuss is over cheney and bush`s possible indictments on war crimes.

I think the current,ongoing investigation has gotten you losing sleep and this is a coping method.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/25/2009 9:36:07 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 9:45:06 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I think that has more to do with ignorance than party affiliation. The reason I say is that I was speaking to someone the other day that mentioned that she did not like having her family live so close to downtown because it would likely be bombed soon. This person is a hard core Dem.

Fear has been a great motivator for many wrong movements, and the imperialism of the Bush admin just one of them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Here's something I absolutely HATE the Republicans for doing; fomenting this false sense of insecurity among the citizenry.

I don't know how many times I've seen some blue-hair from E. Bumfuck fretting about "tewwowists gonna come bomb our elementry scool and liberry and even our Walmart (Praise be unto Walton)" on FuxGnus.  Get a fucking grip.



It needs to be an elected official to count.

Like the way republicans use fear/lies to gain influence and go to war.

Haven`t seen the multi-colored terror threat warning level silly thingy sense that republican rat rove jump off ship.

What color was it when bush left?

Just trying to balance out your biases,buddy.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 9:51:59 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The principle is, protect your home and family. Many on the left can't or won't understand that!



Then I guess it is up to the "left" to protect the ideals of our country while the rest cower in a corner to fend for themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 9:58:00 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
What are you going to protect them with.

Lawsuits?

Or are you going to get nasty if you have to...


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Then I guess it is up to the "left" to protect the ideals of our country while the rest cower in a corner to fend for themselves.



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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:04:24 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What are you going to protect them with.

Lawsuits?

Or are you going to get nasty if you have to...



Get nasty?  Too many rap videos?

Yes, lawsuits.  Because, correct me if I'm wrong, this country was founded on the basis of laws and ideals.

When you decide that your safety is more important than those ideals is when the whole thing starts coming apart.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:08:20 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
When this country was founded, "Ideals" included loudly marching your army out in in the open, while wearing brightly colored uniforms


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:13:02 AM   
redwoodgirl


Posts: 243
Joined: 1/10/2009
Status: offline 		Sorry to interupt, but if some asshats came into my home or town with all this kind of mess in mind, it'd be my gun first, and court after.
Don't let me forget to mention that Im a Dem 100%.

eta: I AM all about peace, but if someones gonna try to come here and fuck my peace up, all bets are off.

< Message edited by redwoodgirl -- 1/25/2009 10:14:10 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:13:32 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


When this country was founded, "Ideals" included loudly marching your army out in in the open, while wearing brightly colored uniforms



...you seem to be suggesting that the US has only disposable-if-expedient ideals. Don't you remember the old adage, if you stand for nothing you'll fall for anything?

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:18:23 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		 “As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals,”    
President Obama, Inaugural Address
Cory perhaps you need to reread the very quote you posted.President Obama is asserting the very falsehood of the choice you are presenting.He is not suggesting for a minute that we we surrender any safety .What the quote is rejecting is the idea that we,as a nation, must surrender our adherance to the rule of law to secure that safety.
   The oath of President actually in and of itself bind the office holder to this very principal."to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foriegn and domestic".The Constitution .....that document that President Bush trampled all over.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:18:41 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		There seems to be a link that we become less safe if we cannot torture people.  This is assuming that we capture very knowledgeable terrorists who know about secret plots against us, and that they are too dumb to lie under torture.  That info obtained under torture is just as reliable as that freely given.

I disagree with all of that.  Plus, I consider America to be a beacon to the rest of the world, and I hope that the beacon will shine again now that Bush and Cheney are out of office.

I am not surprised that the same gang that wanted to shred the Constitution also wanted to bypass the Geneva Convention and international law.  I am, however, surprised at how many people follow their reasoning.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:20:53 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


When this country was founded, "Ideals" included loudly marching your army out in in the open, while wearing brightly colored uniforms





What in the hell are you talking about?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:23:53 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: redwoodgirl

Sorry to interupt, but if some asshats came into my home or town with all this kind of mess in mind, it'd be my gun first, and court after.
Don't let me forget to mention that Im a Dem 100%.

eta: I AM all about peace, but if someones gonna try to come here and fuck my peace up, all bets are off.


Better make sure what you are doing first.

Otherwise it may be gun first, court second, and the rest of your life in jail after.

(in reply to redwoodgirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:45:08 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Why does this response not surprise me.

I'm not going to bother to teach history to you, I don't have the time or patience for it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
What in the hell are you talking about?



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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:47:52 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Why does this response not surprise me.

I'm not going to bother to teach history to you, I don't have the time or patience for it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
What in the hell are you talking about?


Nor ,it would seem the necessary qualifications.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:54:41 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Why does this response not surprise me.

I'm not going to bother to teach history to you, I don't have the time or patience for it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
What in the hell are you talking about?




Well gee gosh Sanity, I know you are so much brighter than me, but maybe you could help out this poor dimwitted soul by explaining WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Thank you very much in advance.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:55:31 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
It's been a while since you tossed a peanut at me, mike.

How have you been?


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Why does this response not surprise me.

I'm not going to bother to teach history to you, I don't have the time or patience for it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
What in the hell are you talking about?


Nor ,it would seem the necessary qualifications.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Do you agree with the President? "As for our ... - 1/25/2009 10:58:56 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Not bad at all Sanity,how bout yourself.....Spent an interesting couple of days in Washington this week celebrating Democracy and the Republic,what have you been up to.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 40
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