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respecting limits - 1/26/2009 3:34:10 AM   
chezzy71


Posts: 412
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Hi to all.i have a question about respecting limits.when a Domina reaches a point in their discussions with prospective submissives,and the conversation is about limits..what if one of the limits is something you really enjoy??Do you stop negotiations right there,or do you respect the limit or stillwould you be fine with it for the time being and then bring it back for further discussion??
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 4:26:39 AM   
chezzy71


Posts: 412
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Sorry kids..my bad...the question regards limits a sub had that a Domina enjoys..not one the sub enjoys and it is a hard limit or slight limit for the Domina...sorry about that.

(in reply to chezzy71)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 4:43:04 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline 		It would depend.  If he had a hard limit regarding some kind of play, I'd respect the limit.  I don't have any "Must Have" stuff when it comes to play, and if really I want to do the thing he won't do, I can always do it with someone else.  If his limit is about something that touches my life more closely - poly relationships or household prerogatives or having kids or something like that - I'd end the negotiations.  I think that cutting him loose so he can find a more suitable partner (and so that I can, too) would be the fair and smart thing to do.  Why start something that is sure to hit an insurmountable roadblock?

(in reply to chezzy71)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 4:57:50 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		Initially, it depends on where the "hard limit" falls--if its something in the realm of what's expected on a daily basis--cooking, cleaning, fixing coffee,   ( oh yea those come in the lists of hard limits with subs too)--then the chats stop right there---there is, at that point, no value for Me--if its something more along the kink/fetish lines---its going to depend on the sub, the possibilities and the limit.
 
I do think that relationships ebb, flow and change--some hard limits today may melt away, be replaced or remain firmly in tact--that is where the relationship takes hold with the development of growth and trust.
 
 

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to chezzy71)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 5:00:54 AM   
Usako


Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline 		Depends on the person, the relationship desired with that person and what the limit is. If they're amazing and the limit is something I can do without then it's not a big deal, but if the connection was weak to begin with the limit could further make me loose interest.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 7:26:15 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I personally don't want there to be any kind of a barrier between me and my respective other. When Reality first contacted me he had a long list of 'NO WAY IN HELL'S'and I told him that once he'd gotten to know me and I earned his trust those limits would be worked through. We seek people based on compatability, which should include a compatability regarding principles (some religious beliefs come under this heading and are unbending) and morals. Had Reality been incompatable with me - and for me, that meant a closed mind and an unwillingness to trust - that would have ended any prospect of a future together. With personal growth and the development of our D/s relationship, his experiences and perceptions have changed completely (mine, too, in some way), and there are no barriers between us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chezzy71
Hi to all.i have a question about respecting limits.when a Domina reaches a point in their discussions with prospective submissives,and the conversation is about limits..what if one of the limits is something you really enjoy??Do you stop negotiations right there,or do you respect the limit or stillwould you be fine with it for the time being and then bring it back for further discussion??


_____________________________

The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 7:34:19 AM   
VampiresLair


Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		It depends greatly on what the limits are and why there are there. Someone who has a list of limits they have never actually tried but dont think they like the sound of is going to be a deterent to me. I want someone who will try things.
However, like Fox, someone who has a few hard limits that are linked to the effects certain actions might have and the negative connotations those actions have for him, I can respect. I have no problem pushing softer limits when the discussions get there, but I also have no desire to pursue and activity I know is going to turn into an emotional fiasco.
Now, if their limits, for whatever reason, are things I love there might be a problem. I would never even start a relationship with someone where biting, femenization or being photographed were limits. Sharing the photos is no big deal, but I do not want to have the option of taking them taken away. IF these things are limits, though, that meas we are a bad match anyway.

DV


_____________________________

Separately we are DiurnalVampire and DVsFox

10/18 Wedding date. 1 year and still blissfully happy

10/13/10 3 year anniversary of his becoming my Fox

Talk impolitely to me, baby - Thanks sunshinemiss



(in reply to MissMorrigan)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 7:49:44 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		It depends on the limit.  (gee, there's an echo!)

We all have stuff that is essential to our kink happiness.  I need a masochist.  Not someone who wants to be beaten to a bloody mess, just a masochist.  If pain is an issue, well....  there could be trouble.  If someone was freaked out by cutting, we could work on it, or I could just do blood play with someone else!  I am very respectful of genuine phobias, and am willing to accomodate those.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 8:29:00 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		That I CAN and DO understand, but still would not allow my submissive to retain and maintain past experiences which have a detrimental impact emotionally, not only for him but also on our development as a couple - I enjoy that Reality is now incapable of hiding any thoughts or feelings from me. I wanted him to experience complete emotional freedom.

I have worked with submissives in the past who have had anxiety disorders which manifested in clinical phobias (non-hereditary/genetically predisposed), and their desire to be possessed overrode their anxiety to harbour their fears - freeing themselves, with support, from that protective wall they had created for themselves. It was imperative I was thoroughly honest from the outset regarding myself and the kind of relationship I sought to create, that through time they had the assurance that they would be respected as human beings, that their well-being was of paramount importance and would always continue to be so, and ultimately, that my will was greater than their internal fears. It isn't for everyone, it was right for Reality and myself.
quote:

ORIGINAL: VampiresLair
However, like Fox, someone who has a few hard limits that are linked to the effects certain actions might have and the negative connotations those actions have for him, I can respect. I have no problem pushing softer limits when the discussions get there, but I also have no desire to pursue and activity I know is going to turn into an emotional fiasco.


_____________________________

The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to VampiresLair)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 8:38:08 AM   
pinnipedster


Posts: 217
Joined: 4/17/2008
Status: offline 		I know, as a sub, I have some things that I would consider "hard limits" when I first started a relationship with a Domme that might change if the relationship developed into something long-term and potentially permanent.  (Any kind of long-term or permanent marking, for example.)  Other limits aren't quite as hard in the first place, but I'd want them approached with caution.  (Some of the more extreme examples of CBT that I have heard about spring to mind.)  But I think there are a few things I would never change my mind about -- not that it seems to be a widespread requirement, for instance, but I don't think I could ever deal with scat.

So I would hope any Dominant woman I was negotiating with would be willing to discuss my limits (and hers) and get a sense of where the lines were and whether there was any flexibility in them at all.

From the other end, there are a few limits she might have that would be deal-breakers for me.  If she has zero interest in crossdressers, for instance, then we might be able to have some enjoyable play sessions, but a long-term relationship isn't going to work.   

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 8:53:32 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		There are limits that could be seen as something that could change and limits that I will never change I don't care if I have never done them... my limit will not change on that one.  I have had submissive's say something to the effect of... Kinks can be worked out later... you will see... you will like it.  Yes, once they think they can change my mind and that I will see it the same way they do.  If it is a hard limit for me and I have no interest whatsoever in it... it isn't going to change and trying to convince me is going to serve to accomplish one thing... my distancing from one who is trying to convince me to change my mind because they like something I will not tolerate.  We then have two things I will not tolerate. lol

However, in things that I have just not done or didn't like too much with one person, could be something I might like with someone else.  Those are things I consider as something I would be open to try for a first time or again.  Those things I can typically see being open minded about.

To me this isn't all about kink or even life experiences to the point of not seeing the person we each are.  One thing shouldn't break or make a relationship and that is where knowing one's self and being open minded and open to some change and a lot of communication come into play.

But there are things that I will not change in and that is just the way it is... if it is something the other person must have... we won't work out most likely.  I would consider that the submissive has the same rights I do in this.  If I believe there is a block of some sort that is caused by something that might need to be addressed, I will talk about it, just as I would expect him to talk about things with me... but.. I will not assume that I can change their mind simply because I want them to if there is a sound basis for whatever.  Nothing will be done to disrespect them and things will be discussed.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to pinnipedster)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 9:18:12 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chezzy71

Hi to all.i have a question about respecting limits.when a Domina reaches a point in their discussions with prospective submissives,and the conversation is about limits..what if one of the limits is something you really enjoy??Do you stop negotiations right there,or do you respect the limit or stillwould you be fine with it for the time being and then bring it back for further discussion??


Depends on which thing it is that I enjoy that is a limit.

Is it something that is very important to me? Then that limit equals end of negotiation but not conversation.
Now I won't tell them that that limit is why, I think that undermines limits, but I will say after we finish the initial negotiation, "I don't believe we honestly have enough in common to go further at this point. Thank you and I wish you luck."

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to chezzy71)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 11:17:23 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chezzy71

Hi to all.i have a question about respecting limits.when a Domina reaches a point in their discussions with prospective submissives,and the conversation is about limits..what if one of the limits is something you really enjoy??Do you stop negotiations right there,or do you respect the limit or stillwould you be fine with it for the time being and then bring it back for further discussion??


When it comes to this one?  Woo.  Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

One of my favorite and most necessary intimacies was on my submissive's list of absolute Hard Limits when we first met.  We didn't talk much about bdsm acts or kink tendencies while we were getting to know each other, other than the knowledge that he was submissive and I was dominant.  But when we had finally planned a friendly visit and he mentioned it during the discussion of travel plans, I kinda Wigged Out (tm).

Once we talked it over, I calmed down and realized that just because he wouldn't and couldn't do X didn't mean that he was not into BDSM or sex in general, and I also remembered that he was a friend and that realistically, I wouldn't be unhappy to see him even if he did not want to be my submissive.  We had a firm basis for friendship and mutual regard in our relationship and we both considered the other person worth spending time with, even if no BDSM or sex was going to happen due to incompatibility.

So we met, spent time together, and formed our D/S bond.  Within a couple of days, he actually cared for me and trusted me enough to bring up the subject and drop the limit, but he seemed a little tentative and vulnerable and I would not go there until he had been given time to retreat, think things over, figure out how he felt and what he wanted without pressure, etc..  I figured that anything he had been protecting with a hard limit must be a sensitive enough issue that I did not want to tread across it while subspace/domspace was in effect, knowing he might regret it and feel badly later.

When we got together again a month or two later, the relationship was fairly secure and we crossed over the limit together without too much trauma.  It isn't a huge part of our relationship these days, but he has learned to enjoy it along with my other little kinks and quirks as his Mistress.  We have enough mutually pleasurable games to be happy in our dynamic, and that's what counts.  :)

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to chezzy71)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 11:22:17 AM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
Status: offline 		For me as a sub, the hard limits seem tied into compatibility. The more compatible we are, the less need for limits. It's a psychic thing...If there's trust/compatibility between a D and s, how can there be any limits?

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 11:25:56 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

For me as a sub, the hard limits seem tied into compatibility. The more compatible we are, the less need for limits. It's a psychic thing...If there's trust/compatibility between a D and s, how can there be any limits?


That's a lovely thing to strive for. 

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 11:47:21 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

For me as a sub, the hard limits seem tied into compatibility. The more compatible we are, the less need for limits. It's a psychic thing...If there's trust/compatibility between a D and s, how can there be any limits?


That's a lovely thing to strive for. 


These are some very wonderful ways of things, I think... but it also brings me to a few questions or things I need to think about.

Lately there seems to be a lot of regular poster's who have said things that show some discontent in some way.  So I have done a lot of thinking in this area of fairness or how some things are viewed from a dominant/submissive or a female/male perspective.  Thus my thinking and questions on this.

If a submissive is credited for taking down barriers in limit's and it is a good thing to establish the trust base in which they feel comfortable in having fewer limits within that relationship... would we see this as a credit for the dominant to do as well?

What happens if we go in with an attitude of being able to change limits within a trusted relationship... to the point of almost expecting things to change and if they don't change?

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 11:54:15 AM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

For me as a sub, the hard limits seem tied into compatibility. The more compatible we are, the less need for limits. It's a psychic thing...If there's trust/compatibility between a D and s, how can there be any limits?


That's a lovely thing to strive for. 


These are some very wonderful ways of things, I think... but it also brings me to a few questions or things I need to think about.

Lately there seems to be a lot of regular poster's who have said things that show some discontent in some way.  So I have done a lot of thinking in this area of fairness or how some things are viewed from a dominant/submissive or a female/male perspective.  Thus my thinking and questions on this.

If a submissive is credited for taking down barriers in limit's and it is a good thing to establish the trust base in which they feel comfortable in having fewer limits within that relationship... would we see this as a credit for the dominant to do as well?

What happens if we go in with an attitude of being able to change limits within a trusted relationship... to the point of almost expecting things to change and if they don't change?


MsLockit, IMHO life's about change. So it seems logical that limits would change as well. I guess there's no need for too many once love/trust is realized. If I love Her, I want/need her to be fulfilled in my need to serve Her through my offering of self-sans limits.(or at least the desire to have Her push me a bit further each time) Maybe one day I'll find HER, the one who will melt my heart, push me to tears, and hold me till I'm all better.(Then get back up and do it all over again)..lol.

(in reply to Lockit)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 11:58:42 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		For me, I think that if a person says "No, I won't do that", then I am honor-bound to accept that. If the individual's position on the subject is still commensurate with thriving in our household, the subject will simply be one that I will not broach again with -that- person. If the person brings it up later and changes position, we will re-address, but as far as I am concerned, the matter is resolved.

If the individual's position on said subject is one that is incompatible with existence in our household (ie., "I don't want to see people who have body modificiations, tattoos, or piercings because I consider it desecration and it bothers me to see it on other people." or "My keeper can stay in the House, but xhe would have to give up all hir other romantic relationships and never use any of the other servants or have relationships with any of the other keepers other than casual or room-mate type relationships.) I would graciously terminate further discussions of bringing this person into our household. Because our household is the way it is, any discrepancy in nature in an incoming individual that would cause another member of the household to be uncomfortable or have to deny hir true nature would be unacceptable.


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Lockit)
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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 12:01:59 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you Underumam, change can be good and somewhat... I expect change... but in some things I will not change.  Such as in water sports.  I have tried it.  I wasn't that interested, a bit curious... but didn't care for it and didn't get the depth some talk about getting to when they do it.  Therefore it is a hard limit for me.  I have no interest in it and I don't care who the man is.  There are other things I will be open to changing but this is not one of them.

So... is it fair for me to expect a submissive to expand, move past, grow... have fewer limits... when I will not budge on some of them?  I know how I feel about this, but am wondering what other's think.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


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RE: respecting limits - 1/26/2009 12:52:07 PM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Thank you Underumam, change can be good and somewhat... I expect change... but in some things I will not change.  Such as in water sports.  I have tried it.  I wasn't that interested, a bit curious... but didn't care for it and didn't get the depth some talk about getting to when they do it.  Therefore it is a hard limit for me.  I have no interest in it and I don't care who the man is.  There are other things I will be open to changing but this is not one of them.

So... is it fair for me to expect a submissive to expand, move past, grow... have fewer limits... when I will not budge on some of them?  I know how I feel about this, but am wondering what other's think.


I'm assuming that you're coming from the perspective of already having traversed the terrain that you are guiding your subs through. Is this correct? Are you keen on recognizing limits that an inexperienced subbie might not know he has?
Thanks.

(in reply to Lockit)
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