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Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/10/2006 3:53:39 PM

MichMasochist

Posts: 234
Joined: 12/23/2005
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I've often read of the terms in stories and web pages. But here is the question. What is pain, what is punishemt in BDSM? Is a safe word used in both? I've also wonder what does it mean when a Domme calls herself "old guard" not Pro. I googled it on the web. I don't think what I found applies to her.

Post #: 1

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/10/2006 4:36:40 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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You need to ask her what she means. Everyone sees it differently.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MichMasochist)

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RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/10/2006 4:38:54 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

What is pain, what is punishemt in BDSM? Is a safe word used in both? I've also wonder what does it mean when a Domme calls herself "old guard" not Pro. I googled it on the web. I don't think what I found applies to her.

What is pain? Something that hurts.

What is punishment in BDSM. Something you don't happen to care for. Something you really hate. Doesn't have to have pain involved. It very well could be mental pain.

Old guard? It is the terminology used back in the 50's during the war. Gay military men, their secret society so to speak. Which only means the fem dom claiming to be old guard is not.

I suspect she is calling herself that because she believes in the honor that went with them. In the military it still is moreless illegal to be homosexual so they had these sort of secret clubs. Nobody told. There was honor amoung men so to speak.

Jack Rinella has written several articles on the Old Guard, you may want to google him.

(in reply to MichMasochist)

Post #: 3

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/10/2006 5:07:44 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MichMasochist

I've often read of the terms in stories and web pages. But here is the question. What is pain, what is punishemt in BDSM? Is a safe word used in both? I've also wonder what does it mean when a Domme calls herself "old guard" not Pro. I googled it on the web. I don't think what I found applies to her.

"What do YOU mean by that?" Is one of the most important questions in BDSM. There's a whole chapter on pain in Loving Dominant. Whether there is "punishment" in a relationship has to be answered by all involved. I do doubt the the domme you speak of could be Old Guard since was exclusively male homosexual... more that likely it's more "I don't have any real skills so I will give myself a title that will call all the munchkins to respect and fear me... now where did I put that damned curtain?"

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(in reply to MichMasochist)

Post #: 4

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/10/2006 5:45:01 PM

Oberonrex

Posts: 164
Joined: 3/31/2005
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Pain is anything that hurts. Punishment is something that the party being punished does not like, be it mental or physical. As for the Old Guard reference, I like John Warren's response the best.

(in reply to MichMasochist)

Post #: 5

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/25/2006 3:35:09 PM

lonewolfe

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IMLE (In my limited experience) These are terms defining level of play, most often. Not to be confused with corrective or disciplinary measure. As any experienced mistress, or sadist, knows. You simply do not give pain to a masochist as an attempt to correct unacceptable or otherwise bad behavior or wrong doings. Only as a reward for good behavior; and of course the personal enjoyment of the mistress.

Pain, as a level of play or intensity thereof; often means to make the bottom say ouch, or at most cry.

Punishment, as a level of play is were the top, mistress in my case, chooses the beating(s) as well as the serverity and duration of the beating(s). Often with the intent to make the bottom beg for mercy. Just short of making the bottom "safe word".

Sadism or "Locked box session". Extreme level or edge play, is IMO, probably more myth than anything else. Supposedly the bottom is totally at the mercy of the top, in bondage, inside a room locked from the inside. Supposedly no safe word is allowed.

A woman using the term "Old guard" Mistress; not to be confused with the "Leathermen" means that she will not partake of any acts that involve an act insertion. IE strapon, This may be a personal hard limit of hers or the local laws would define it as a sex act and subject her to arrest and prosecution on the charge of prostition; or rape as legally defined as the "actor" if the recipient of said act is physically restrained in any manner during insertion. Irrespective of implied or expressed consent of said participant(s).

Disclaimer : My statements here are not intended as legal advise. Niether do I make any assertions as to the accuracy of my statements.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichMasochist

I've often read of the terms in stories and web pages. But here is the question. What is pain, what is punishemt in BDSM? Is a safe word used in both? I've also wonder what does it mean when a Domme calls herself "old guard" not Pro. I googled it on the web. I don't think what I found applies to her.

< Message edited by lonewolfe -- 1/25/2006 3:39:51 PM >

(in reply to MichMasochist)

Post #: 6

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/25/2006 3:49:34 PM

Sirandlittle1

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Joined: 12/22/2005
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what is pain? : distress and sufferring from emotional, physical or spiritual stimulus.

what is punishment? : punishment (a behaviour modification method) is, in learning theory, the least effective behaviour modification. The most difficult to administer correctly to gain a desired effect. It is the stick in 'carrot or stick' motivator.

Is a safe word used in both? :if you have negotiated that a safe word can be used, yes.

What does it mean when a Domme (female) calls herself Old Gaurd. : she lacks knowledge of the term. Or a gay guy, trapped in a Domme's body. Transgendered perhaps?

What does it mean when she refers to herself as non Pro? : she wants a 'donation' (joke), it means she is not motivated by financial reward for dominating you. And will not be seeking any financial or 'donation' or 'contribution' or 'gift' from you. Just you and your submission.

And what does all of this mean to you? That you need to communicate this to her. Show her this thread and discuss it, fully.

be well
little1

(in reply to lonewolfe)

Post #: 7

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/25/2006 9:21:27 PM

DragonNphoenix

Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
Old guard? It is the terminology used back in the 50's during the war. Gay military men, their secret society so to speak. Which only means the fem dom claiming to be old guard is not.

In My experience, Old Guard refers to a Dom understanding the way that it 'used' to be done. The way that the responsibility used to be handled. Also that the Dom has more than just a year or two of training of his own.

I guess that you would need to ask her to define her theory of what Old Guard means.

1st Girl Phoenix

_____________________________

**Pain is just pleasure with a twist**

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 8

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/25/2006 10:50:31 PM

classykindasassy

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It's been said - except that clearly stated, a pro is a Dom/me who gets paid to do their thing, and does not typically include sex as part of the service. This is my understanding.

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"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

(in reply to DragonNphoenix)

Post #: 9

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/25/2006 11:02:21 PM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolfe
You simply do not give pain to a masochist as an attempt to correct unacceptable or otherwise bad behavior or wrong doings. Only as a reward for good behavior; and of course the personal enjoyment of the mistress.

Just wanted to clarify that this isn't a universal.. A masochist can accept pain as pleasure/reward *or* as punishment. It depends on the masochist and the reason, method and type of pain given.

(in reply to lonewolfe)

Post #: 10

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/25/2006 11:09:32 PM

nonuts4thshoney

Posts: 550
Joined: 6/12/2005
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolfe
You simply do not give pain to a masochist as an attempt to correct unacceptable or otherwise bad behavior or wrong doings. Only as a reward for good behavior; and of course the personal enjoyment of the mistress.

Just wanted to clarify that this isn't a universal.. A masochist can accept pain as pleasure/reward *or* as punishment. It depends on the masochist and the reason, method and type of pain given.

Yeah a masochist can accept pain as punishment and i have before but i think maybe only once or twice. i remember one time getting punished with a paddle to my booty and when Master would lean over to see my reaction i would be smiling. She would say "Hey, you're not supposed to be liking this!!" LMFAO!!!

well, i dont get spankings as punishment anymore...LOL!!!

(in reply to RumpusParable)

Post #: 11

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/25/2006 11:24:52 PM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
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Haha!

For me it's entirely about the "why". If I'm getting pain for play or for reward, I love it and use it and it's wonderful... but even the thought of receiving it out of displeasure with me upsets me and turns the "good" feelings off. I can't enjoy it if it's not given in a happy way at all!

(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)

Post #: 12

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/26/2006 8:20:28 AM

DragonNphoenix

Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney

quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolfe
You simply do not give pain to a masochist as an attempt to correct unacceptable or otherwise bad behavior or wrong doings. Only as a reward for good behavior; and of course the personal enjoyment of the mistress.

Just wanted to clarify that this isn't a universal.. A masochist can accept pain as pleasure/reward *or* as punishment. It depends on the masochist and the reason, method and type of pain given.

Yeah a masochist can accept pain as punishment and i have before but i think maybe only once or twice. i remember one time getting punished with a paddle to my booty and when Master would lean over to see my reaction i would be smiling. She would say "Hey, you're not supposed to be liking this!!" LMFAO!!! well, i dont get spankings as punishment anymore...LOL!!!

My Dragon will withhold pain as a punishment. That really sucks!!

Phoenix

_____________________________

**Pain is just pleasure with a twist**

(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)

Post #: 13

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/26/2006 2:44:43 PM

MichMasochist

Posts: 234
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: classykindasassy

It's been said - except that clearly stated, a pro is a Dom/me who gets paid to do their thing, and does not typically include sex as part of the service. This is my understanding.

I like how you said that. My last Pro mistress wasn't "typical" unfortunately she had to go to Louisana after the the disaster to be with her family. She was a very real treasure, hope thing are well for her.

(in reply to classykindasassy)

Post #: 14

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/26/2006 2:55:03 PM

MichMasochist

Posts: 234
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DragonNphoenix

quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney

quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolfe
You simply do not give pain to a masochist as an attempt to correct unacceptable or otherwise bad behavior or wrong doings. Only as a reward for good behavior; and of course the personal enjoyment of the mistress.

Just wanted to clarify that this isn't a universal.. A masochist can accept pain as pleasure/reward *or* as punishment. It depends on the masochist and the reason, method and type of pain given.

Yeah a masochist can accept pain as punishment and i have before but i think maybe only once or twice. i remember one time getting punished with a paddle to my booty and when Master would lean over to see my reaction i would be smiling. She would say "Hey, you're not supposed to be liking this!!" LMFAO!!! well, i dont get spankings as punishment anymore...LOL!!!

My Dragon will withhold pain as a punishment. That really sucks!!

Phoenix

Really does. I've often found myself thinking of how I could be bad as a means of getting a certain mistress to give me pain. Ultimately ruins a relationship. However when "She", the one who must be obeyed (another mistress), wouldn't cause or give me pain unless I was good and obediant. Definately motivated me to be good.

Imagine that? A masochist wants pain and will be a good obediant slave/subby to get pain. Kinda fits don't you think. :)

Hi every one had a bummer of a day at work.

(in reply to DragonNphoenix)

Post #: 15

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/26/2006 3:22:30 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

I've also wonder what does it mean when a Domme calls herself "old guard" not Pro. I googled it on the web. I don't think what I found applies to her.

Perhaps she means metaphorically. She may hold her own preceived tenents of "old guard' close to her heart. For the record, most of the old guard have long since passed or are now drooling in a home for the aged. Time takes it's toll. Relating to the Old Guard ways is no different than those who relate to Gor. Gor is a fantasy which has never existed, so one can not 'be' Gorean per se. One can embrace what they view as a Gorean philosophy, however. I would not, automatically, discount her as a player or wannabe though, nor disparage her skill set or motivations. There is often something of the past which calls to us, to which we relate and which is so compelling to us that we, too, desire it as an integral part of our lives.

Continue to google, find out about the Old Guard and, use her as a resource. Ask her why she calls herself that and what it means to her. What does she, personally gain from her viewpoints and what does she expect from others in embracing that which is, mostly, now gone.

If nothing else, you'll probably learn something.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to MichMasochist)

Post #: 16

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/27/2006 12:56:44 AM

Petruchio

Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
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quote:

I don't have any real skills so I will give myself a title that will call all the munchkins to respect and fear me...

We can do that? I kind of like Master of the Universe. Yeah, has a nice ring to it.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 17

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/27/2006 1:07:26 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

We can do that? I kind of like Master of the Universe. Yeah, has a nice ring to it.

I think there is a copyright on that one. You might want to try Master of the "Known" Universe. I'm fairly certain that one's still free.

:)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Petruchio)

Post #: 18

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/27/2006 5:27:29 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Petruchio

quote:

I don't have any real skills so I will give myself a title that will call all the munchkins to respect and fear me...

We can do that? I kind of like Master of the Universe. Yeah, has a nice ring to it.

Don't you need a big sword and some kind of big dog in armour to do that?

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to Petruchio)

Post #: 19

RE: Levels of entensity in BDSM play - 1/27/2006 9:38:20 AM

yourMissTress

Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Petruchio

quote:

I don't have any real skills so I will give myself a title that will call all the munchkins to respect and fear me...

We can do that? I kind of like Master of the Universe. Yeah, has a nice ring to it.

Don't you need a big sword and some kind of big dog in armour to do that?

OMG, too funny you two...

Now to the OP, pain and punishment are relative terms in BDSM. I have had subs that would drool in anticipation when they see me get out my clothespins collection, and others that would shrink into the corner and whimper at the thought. Guess which ones get punished with the clothespins and which one has to hold a dime against the wall with his nose for a punishment...I have also had a sub (just one) that didn't need to punish with any physical act, simply letting him know that I was dissappointed was enough.

Safewords are more than a good idea in playing with someone that you haven't played with before, as well as people you've played with a few times. Limits can be found long after you've had your umpteenth discussion about them...for instance...a sub says "my limits are the big 4 and that's it, you can do anything else you want" I say "GREAT, I just discovered that I absolutely love subs whose eyes have been burned out by this red hot poker, c'mere" .

< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 1/27/2006 9:39:09 AM >

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Tress

"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 20

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