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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 2:42:00 PM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I find it simple. Don't have limits.
Oh no - shock horror - someone claiming to have no limits!

Well I don't.
I have things I do and things I wouldn't. That way, everything is clear and dandy and nothing gets pushed that isn't there in the first place.

the.dark.

Ditto to that.

I was thinking about the whole idea of hard and soft limits ........What about all the things I'd never think to put ON a list?.....Like walking barefoot on snails, licking slug-slime, sweeping the terrace in a nappy with a toothbrush between my teeth.

Looking back over the years, I couldn't possibly have even thought of the things he's done , let alone *list* them.......lol

agirl

This made me laugh out loud

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 2:51:23 PM

devotedinSD

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You are new to this, I wouldn't worry about it now. Just tell him to take things slowly because you are new to this, there is nothing wrong with that. Eventually when you have a dominant for a longer time and feel comfortable some limits will look less intimidating.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 3:28:19 PM

bamagirl4u

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First of all...thanks to everyone that has posted. I think I need to slow down with this relationship. He asked me to change my profile to state that I am owned by him, although I have not accepted his collar. He said this is to stop others from pursuing me. I did it because I like him, but I did it before this other woman question came up either. Again, thanks to everyone that answered...I have read them all and take them all to be valuable as I tread my way through this lifestyle.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 3:34:55 PM

IrishMist

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quote:

If you are asked to do something that you really don't want to, do you sometimes give in because He asks you to?

I was never asked.
He simply said what was going to happen and that was the end of it.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 3:40:14 PM

beth314

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bamagirl4u,
Anyone who tells you "no hard limits" does not have your best interest at heart! It's crazy talk. You are entitled to hard limits-but that is the only thing. That's why it is so important to speak up and ask questions before you agree to be owned. Cause after that, girl...it's a done deal. How can you even begin to establish trust and feel that initial sense of safety and security with someone if they disregard your hard limits before you are even owned? It's an awesome thing to give 100% of yourself to someone and trust that whatever they decide is in your best interest. We choose this way of life and some would argue that they were created this way & have no choice...but they could be celibate, so they do have a choice. We gotta face reality with eyes wide open, because there are sooooo many dimensions of this lifestyle that if you dont have hard limits defined and agreed upon before the surrender of yourself (and that IS your last decision) you could wind up a Manson follower or worse. i think Califchick hit the nail on the head...when she described them as personal comfort. Hard limits are not negotiatable, but your dislikes or soft limits are not OFF limits to anyone that you have given yourself to. The main goal would be to find someone who has the same hard limits you do and then it's not an issue :)
bethany

< Message edited by beth314 -- 1/29/2009 7:55:57 PM >

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 3:43:20 PM

IrishMist

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quote:

This is crazy talk

I guess we are all a bunch of fucking nut cases then

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 3:43:37 PM

T1981

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That's what I thought, too, Beth, at first. But when other people here started talking to me about their relationships, about how it works for them - well, it works for them. Quite well, even.

That would never work for ME, but I now do believe that there are healthy, no limit D/s relationships out there.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 3:46:47 PM

MasterFireMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bamagirl4u

If you are asked to do something that you really don't want to, do you sometimes give in because He asks you to? Isn't that a contradiction of honoring "limits"?

It depends on what the long term goal of the relationship is. If you want one where limits are forefront, then obviously, crossing limits isn't an option. But, if you want a relationship about obedience, after trust have been built and the relationship conducted in healthy way, there are no limits except what the Master chooses. These kinds of relationships aren't, weekend collars nor are they collars after a month of online role play. Getting to the goal takes time, commitment, discernment and trust so if someone tries to do it from day one, I'd say they really aren't basing their relationship development in reality.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 3:56:08 PM

littlewonder

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For me there's a difference between not wanting to do something and a limit.

My limits are steadfast. They do not change and are things that are against my morals or I know would permanently break me as a human being. My limits don't get touched..period. I would not be with someone who felt a need to do that to me.

Now there are things that I don't like to do that Master has had me do or I've done because I like the idea of pleasing him more than my dislike of something. Sure it may humiliate or embarass me. It may even anger me but I know know it won't kill me and it's not a limit and when I became his slave I agreed to obey..whether I liked something or not.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 4:04:34 PM

T1981

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That's why so many of us have hard and soft limits. Things that I don't enjoy doing that I will do for my husband such as multiple finger penetration, anal, that sort of thing - they are more an expression of submissiveness for me. Something that I do for him specifically. And you may find that your limits do change over time - I recently found that while multiple finger penetration isn't entirely comfortable, I'm now curious about fisting. We've also moved passed anal as a hard limit.

So try and think about things that you'd be willing to do even if you don't entirely enjoy them, and then, once in a while, on a really good night, play around with those, see where you end up.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 4:53:37 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beth314

This is crazy talk! No hard limits? How can you not have hard limits and how can you even begin to trust someone if they push them from the get go? It's an awesome thing to give 100% of yourself to someone and trust that whatever they decide is in your best interest. But we gotta face it folks, there are so many levels of this lifestyle that if you dont have hard limits defined and agreed upon before the surrender of yourself (and that IS your last decision) you could wind up a Manson follower or worse. i think Califchick hit the nail on the head...when she described them as personal comfort. Hard limits, in my opinion, are never negotiated, but your dislikes or soft limits are not OFF limits to someone that you have given yourself to. The main goal would be to find someone who has the same hard limits you do and then it's not an issue.

Crazy at it may appear...it's the case. I haven't come across any. I can think of a few things like *being squished by a steam-roller* but somehow they don't need to be stated. If I was alone and chatting to someone new, they'd find that I wouldn't *do* a LOT of things. Not because activities are a limit in themselves but because I don't know him from Adam.

agirl

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 6:52:30 PM

Tapestry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bamagirl4u

...My question is this? If you are asked to do something that you really don't want to, do you sometimes give in because He asks you to? Isn't that a contradiction of honoring "limits"? ...

To my mind there is a huge difference between "doing something that you really don't want to" and a hard limit. Dominant types relish pushing "limits" and knowing that we are doing something we wouldn't otherwise do. I'm not going to guess why, I'm not Dominant so I really don't get it. I do know I need the exchange of power myself, so I'm glad They are the way They are.

As far as sorting out the whole hard limit thing, for me, realizing what I will not do (and there really are way more things than I could ever actually list I'm sure,) meant finding a Dominant who shared my values. There are myriad things I've never done, or don't feel drawn to do, or don't think I will enjoy, that if He wanted I would attempt. Those are not hard limits, and they do not interfere with O/our core values.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bamagirl4u
...I read a lot of profiles about wanting to keep the sub/slave in a box or cage when "not in use". I find it hard to believe that a woman could survive for long in that type of situation. ...

This really does come down to practical matters, there aren't very many men out there who could afford the care of a caged submissive. They typically need us to contribute financially to the running of the household. They also tend to need us to clean and cook and shop and launder and take care of all manner of other things. If They actually had to earn the money, keep the house, and take care of us too They'd quickly run out of time. So it does tend to be a fantasy. If you find one who has worked out all the kinks above, then there is still the issue of visiting parents and other vanilla family, seeing doctors or other necessities which just don't allow us to remain in a cage when "not in use." Now, if they've absolutely worked out all of that stuff and still desire the cage for substantial portions of time, consider that often the cage is not a small little cage as we think of one, but can be a room designated as a "cage" that is comfy and has the things the slave needs to care for herself. I've even heard of the "cage" having books and a TV and a computer for slave to take online college classes. In other words, it really is all in the details, and don't assume anything, ask ask ask.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bamagirl4u
...For me, this lifestyle is not about humiliation, and honestly sometimes I don't know how I feel anymore...

Now I think you've identified one of your core values - a hard limit. You are not OK with humiliation. That's good to identify and something you need to stick to your guns about because there are many people in this lifestyle who love humiliation, both the giving and receiving of it. It doesn't sound like you would be compatible with someone like that. It's FINE to place a hard limit on humiliation - don't let anyone tell you that you aren't really submissive just because you have something that you will not do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bamagirl4u
... With this relationship being new, we have met in r/l once so far, am I setting myself up for failure? I guess there are some that would do "anything", I am just not one of them. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

It's most likely too soon to tell if you're setting yourself up for failure. A lot more getting to know you and time and talking and learning about one another needs to happen. You really can't forget that you are a person first. When the first blush wears off is there anything left for the 2 of you? In between tantalizing and exciting scenes and kinky fun what do you have in common? If there isn't anything shared other than BDSM then I would suggest either developing shared interests or else moving on. On that note, I will say, Master has very nearly recreated me on the shared interests front. As long as your Sir is interested and willing to mold you into a partner for him then fine, as long as you are willing. If either of you don't want to invest the time then this relationship is really not going anywhere. The only way to know is to talk about it and ask questions and work it all out.

Peace
Tapestry

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 8:21:22 PM

beth314

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Sorry ya'll...i was editing my post and we lost power before it posted:( By the time the power came back on...there were already replies to it. hmmm...guess i should have left well enough alone.

IrishMist,
No, your not all a bunch of nut cases.

T1981,
I believe too that there are alot of healthy no limits D/s relationships out there but there again where was the trust established to have the awesome thing they have? Certainly people dont just go into that type of relationship without truly knowing who that person is and how they think and feel, or do they? That maybe a good idea for a new thread:)

agirl,
LMAO :) No steam rollers, really?

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/29/2009 9:48:34 PM

devotedinSD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bamagirl4u

First of all...thanks to everyone that has posted. I think I need to slow down with this relationship. He asked me to change my profile to state that I am owned by him, although I have not accepted his collar. He said this is to stop others from pursuing me. I did it because I like him, but I did it before this other woman question came up either. Again, thanks to everyone that answered...I have read them all and take them all to be valuable as I tread my way through this lifestyle.

Now wouldn't that have meant much more if you had done that yourself? he cheated himself out of it.I don't think he should have asked you to do that.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/30/2009 1:10:02 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beth314

agirl,

LMAO :) No steam rollers, really?

Grins....well, hopefully eh?.....I still eye his power tools with barely suppressed terror...lol

agirl

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/30/2009 2:03:27 AM

colouredin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Beyond that, when it comes to another woman, you have to think about how she would feel. How would you feel if a gay man said he would give you oral sex because he was told to but you needed to know that he finds the whole thing offensive and he isn't attracted to you at all? Would you still tell him to do it?

This is spot on............ How could he put another woman through something that would cause you trauma and her rejection. To be honest I can think of nothing worse.

I think the point here is that the girl has to be aware of the situation. I think personally its something that some people would do. If the girl was unaware of the situation and just used then that to me is horrific, against all the stuff that most of us stand for (consent) and really there is no excusing it.

To the OP
There is a differance to me between limits and 'stuff I dont want to do' I have very few limits and lots of stuff I dont want to do. That doesnt mean I dont do it, in fact doing stuff i dont want to can be totally delicious, finding yourself enjoying something that you would never choose to do, something that in your head is odd or whatever is an amazing feeling.

Of course hard limits are differant, they wont ever be pushed, I have removed some of my hard limits over time but not because they were pushed instead because my mind was opened to other stuff through conversation and demos etc. I am pretty sure that if any of my hard limits were pushed I would really struggle with that. It has taken me a long time to be able to trust other people, it wasnt an easy journy and I am not there yet. If someone broke my trust in such a huge way I think it would put me back to the beginning again if not worse.

But having said that the biggest thing for me is apprication. I dont want to be always considered a 'toy' or as the op said put away when not in use because I am a human being. I want to do stuff that I dont want to becuase it makes them happy and probably to make them like me more, yeah thats a terrible admission.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/30/2009 5:27:22 AM

feydeplume

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Limits come in many forms. I have a few hard limits that have proved truly HARD over time. I will not betray my D's secrets. Ever. No matter how it ended or how long it has been. I will not be pleasant or friendly with toxic people. Ever. Even if they are family or the boss. I will not endanger the lives of others knowingly. EVER. I think licking slugs is probably more of a soft limit for me, I don't *think* i would barf. But I am with you on that steam roller thing.

So yeah i am not a "no limits" slave.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/30/2009 6:36:43 AM

OmegaG

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Now the way I read the original text is this:

Guy is getting to know girl, he asks a question about something that is interesting to him (probably to determine compatability) according to her he's not pushing it. Now she wants to know why he isn't respecting her limits, but honestly, the way she told him that she'd rather not didn't appear to me to be a deffinative negative for the activity, in fact, she said she'd think about it.

If it's a limit, you say "no" or even "oh, hell no". But to tell him that you will think about it signials to me that he's not pushing your limits, you are being wishy-washy about them-- maybe you think that if you tell this new relationship what you really think that he will move on to someone more compatible? Only you can decide what is a deal breaker and what behaviours or expectations are beyond what you desire in a functional dynamic. If being with a girl will make you squick, tell him, if he bolts then he frees you up to look for someone more suited to you.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/30/2009 10:59:13 AM

Honsoku

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bamagirl4u

As a submissive with a fairly new relationship happening, I find myself wondering something? He asked me recently if I had ever been with another woman, my answer was no. He asked me if I would? I told Him it was not something I would ever want, but I would think on it. He isn't pressing, just curious I guess.

As a matter of course I will ask dozens nay, hundreds of hypothetical questions (not all at once mind you) as a way to understand how a person determines what they like or dislike and their current stance on things. Most people, especially relatively new people, have a very limited set of things that they think they like and not all of it is accurate. Everybody's list will change with time and experience as like/disliking something is very very dependent on circumstance. I'm sure there are people here who can regale you with tales of how there was this thing that they never liked before a certain person, loved it with that person, and have never been interested in it since. Anybody can willingly and enjoyably do anything that's physically possible, given the right set of circumstances and motivation. It is just that some of those things are a lot easier for that person than others and some may leave lasting harm/confusion afterwards. When anybody says that they "will never do x", and "x" is physically possible, all that really means is that they currently can't see themselves ever doing x.

quote:

My question is this? If you are asked to do something that you really don't want to, do you sometimes give in because He asks you to? Isn't that a contradiction of honoring "limits"? I understand that Dom is usually going to push your limits, but what about ones you already have in place?

Depends. Do you value being obedient and/or pleasing your dominant more than you dislike doing "x" and/or the perceived/known after effects of "x"? If not, you don't do it.

quote:

I read a lot of profiles about wanting to keep the sub/slave in a box or cage when "not in use". I find it hard to believe that a woman could survive for long in that type of situation.

This is almost entirely fantasy. Don't dwell on it.

quote:

For me, this lifestyle is not about humiliation, and honestly sometimes I don't know how I feel anymore.

Sounds like it is something that falls strongly in the "Don't go there" category for now, so seek out people that aren't interested in that sort of thing. Another option would be to seek out someone who is very skilled with it, and attempt to expand your horizons.

quote:

I have only had one other Dom since becoming active in this lifestyle, (I don't count the wannabe--another story), but He never once pushed me to do something I didn't want to. I have limits (hard) on anal, and He respected them. I guess I am just feeling a little confused. With this relationship being new, we have met in r/l once so far, am I setting myself up for failure? I guess there are some that would do "anything", I am just not one of them. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

I think you may be overreacting at this point. Remember that it is nearly impossible to actually force anyone to do anything. When you lead a horse to water, you can beat the horse, insult the horse, whisper sweet nothings into the horse's ear, promise the horse bags of feed, and even rub his nose in the stream, but by George, you can't make the horse drink.

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RE: Frustrated with limits and/or the lack of.... - 1/30/2009 4:03:33 PM

oceanwynds