RE: 3 simple questions (Full Version)

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VanDarksyd -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 2:04:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach


3.)  Nuke 'em till they glow then shoot 'em in the dark.




DesFIP -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 5:06:48 AM)

I would decline kingship. I am a great believer in checks and balances and a kingship such as in 1776 does not limit the ruler's powers sufficiency.

Of course I would go home. I'm a mother. My ums are the most important thing on earth to me.

Not enough info on the bomb question. Harry Truman didn't really know about the radioactive fallout that resulted from using the bomb. If I didn't know enough about it, I probably would use it. If I had known, I may not have. However considering the fact that tens of thousands more Americans would have died if the Pacific War continued, it is hard to say.



Dnomyar -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 5:40:30 AM)

While we are on Washington read his farewell speach.

If I recall a King in France was beheaded.

Droping a bomb is a no brainer.



hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 6:37:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You know the answers to the first two questions will be the same for everyone...at least if they are serious and human.


Serious about my answer - absolutely.  Completely human? Eh... that one is frequently up for debate. 
 
However, you don't seem to take into account that not everyone has some sort of happy, sharing, congenial relationship with their family or have spawn at home to contend with.
 
Some of us, Butch, are simply honest enough to acknowledge that our family doesn't hold that high a place in our lives.  Mine USED to do so - but that was several years ago, and what "used to be" doesn't pertain to "now."  The portions of my family that I would go to that sort of trouble for are pretty much all Dead.  The remaining portions I Honestly wouldn't walk across the street to piss on if they were on fire.
 
I also could give a flying rat's fart what's best for "everyone else" most of the time.  Frankly - what's "best for everyone" seems to differ by opinion of which part of "everyone" you're talking to.   So no, I'm not interested in doing what's best for "everyone" and subsequently waffling back and forth on what I do based on who happens to be yelling the loudest at the time.  My home is not a democracy - it's a dictatorship - usually with a Benevolant dictator, but a dictatorship nonetheless.  I'm not on some sort of high-minded political correctness binge - I'd rather be honest and hated for my honesty than lie to make everyone happy or think I'm just like them - and then hated when I do what *I want, not what's Expected of me.



kdsub -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 8:11:12 AM)

I'm sorry to hear that Rhi...I have family problems as well but if it were life and death I'd overlook those differences...But I do understand some differences can not be overlooked.

Butch



IrishMist -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 10:11:03 AM)

Yes
No
No



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 10:29:03 AM)

OK, I'm obviously a little dense sometimes, but I'm confused by the people who are answering "yes" or "no" to Question #2. It's an either/or question. Which of the two questions are you answering "yes" or "no" to?



Hippiekinkster -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 11:36:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
3. I'd have done it differently. I would have shipped film of the A-bomb tests and let them know what was coming if they did not capitulate. After that, I don't know what action I would take. If I had more than two bombs built, I'd explode one in Tokyo Bay, then send a communique to the Emperor and the top brass. Only then would I consider using the bomb on a strategic industrial area.


I don't often disagree with you, ol' buddy, but I'm afraid I have to here. Your sentiments are certainly in the right place (as they always are), but I would point out that even after we annihilated one of their major cities, a city full of Japanese citizens, they still didn't surrender until we incinerated a second one. I think it's highly unlikely a film or even a demonstration blast would have had any greater effect on their intransigence.

Yes, I know. Difficult question for me. So many innocents lost their lives. The US military and Truman knew what destruction the bomb could wreak. I still think I would have given them an out before taking such action, but I wouldn't have used a bomb on Hagasaki or Hiroshima. Ground Zero would have been the Japanese High Command HQ.

I just found, because my interest was piqued, this:
"Could both the dropping of the atomic bombs or an invasion of Japan have been prevented through a loosening of the surrender terms? Professor Skates does not discuss this in any great detail, but in July 1945, the Japanese had attempted to use both the Swedish and Soviet governments as intermediaries to end the war with the United States. Both President Truman and Secretary Stimson were aware of these Japanese feelers, but Truman still refused to approve of any private or public modification of the unconditional surrender terms. Instead, on July 25, while at the Potsdam Conference with Churchill and Stalin, Truman issued orders that the first atomic bomb was to be dropped any time after August 3. On July 26, the Potsdam Declaration was issued, stating: "We call upon the Government of Japan to proclaim unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces. . . . The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction.""
http://www.fff.org/freedom/1195f.asp

"What if " is an interesting game to play. What if Truman had responded to Japan's feelers through Sweden and the USSR? What if things were done my way? We'll never know.

Not an easy question for me to answer at all.



Vendaval -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 5:00:29 PM)

Whether or not to launch a nuclear attack is the hardest question here.  Warfare will cause casualties in the civilian populations even with the best technology and intelligence information.
 
Knowing what we do now about what happened both short term and long term to the civilian populations in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I would not be able to use nuclear weapons.


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
     I would like to think the answers are yes, yes and yes, but only one of those been tested in any fashion.



Louve00 -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 7:06:37 PM)

This is a hypothetical question that reflects more a person's intentions, than his actual reactions.  I would be more inclined to agree with kittinSol.  And really, I'm not even sure most people know exactly how they'd react, when actually having to make the panicked decision.  But, to play along....
1. yes
2. no
3. yes



blacksword404 -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 8:34:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

This catastrophic hypothesis reminds me of the Titanic thread on Gor. Everybody imagines what they would do and comes up with justifications for their own (imaginary) actions. In the end though, it's nothing but speculation and macho posturing. 


Well I thought it was about leadership and self-sacrifice. But what do I know? If you really know yourself well enough you could be pretty accurate.

Macho posturing huh? Say whatever you have to, do whatever you have to, to not have to make those hard decisions. Explain it away if it makes you feel better.



blacksword404 -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 8:49:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

1. That's a difficult question. I certainly wouldn't be inclined to use my position to amass a fortune, as my needs are few, and my wants aren't extravagent. I think I would use what power I had to try and make life easier and more rewarding for my fellow citizens, beginning with those most in need, and I'd play hardball to achieve those goals.
2. I'd have to try to be with my family.
3. I'd have done it differently. I would have shipped film of the A-bomb tests and let them know what was coming if they did not capitulate. After that, I don't know what action I would take. If I had more than two bombs built, I'd explode one in Tokyo Bay, then send a communique to the Emperor and the top brass. Only then would I consider using the bomb on a strategic industrial area.


No diverting hippie. But an interesting scenario. You might end up only having to use 1 bomb.



blacksword404 -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 8:57:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You know the answers to the first two questions will be the same for everyone...at least if they are serious and human.

For the third...NEVER DROP THE BOMB... The WWII bombs were necessary...if they were not used we would have no measure of the destruction. There would have already been a nuclear war without those examples.

Now we know what it will do…there is no excuse to use a bomb even for self-preservation. It is too indiscriminate and destructive. Its use could set off a series of events that could destroy life as we know it.

War should not be quick or easy...If you are worried about your legacy in such a decision you are NOT worthy to make it.

Butch


Even if in the case you don't the casualty rate for the enemy will be 55% higher, and your own will be 36% higher? You are leader, you can decide however you like but there are consequences either way you choose. One you alone will have to bear.



blacksword404 -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 9:01:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
1.Would you have the will,or the willpower to resist all that power and do what
was likely best for your country rather than yourself?


I certainly hope that I would,  but I'm certainly glad that I'll never have to find out for sure.



quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
2. Do you stay where you are and save your own life or do you risk it to go be with your family?


There's no choice here. If my family is going to die, I'd rather die with them than live without them.



quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404
3. You have decide that it is necessary to drop them in order to bring the fighting to a close. But you still have to decide if you will give the order to
drop them or not. Knowing how you will be treated in the end if you do. Do you drop those bombs?


Yes. And then take cyanide.



I don't like the cyanide part but I can envision why you might do it.



kdsub -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/3/2009 9:11:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You know the answers to the first two questions will be the same for everyone...at least if they are serious and human.

For the third...NEVER DROP THE BOMB... The WWII bombs were necessary...if they were not used we would have no measure of the destruction. There would have already been a nuclear war without those examples.

Now we know what it will do…there is no excuse to use a bomb even for self-preservation. It is too indiscriminate and destructive. Its use could set off a series of events that could destroy life as we know it.

War should not be quick or easy...If you are worried about your legacy in such a decision you are NOT worthy to make it.

Butch


Even if in the case you don't the casualty rate for the enemy will be 55% higher, and your own will be 36% higher? You are leader, you can decide however you like but there are consequences either way you choose. One you alone will have to bear.


Even if it would mean possible defeat if I didn't... one is a sure thing... kill many thousands and make a part of the earth uninhabitable... the other is a maybe... realistically you could not know at the time of the decision which would result in more deaths.

But you would open the way for retaliation. You can’t expect a reasoned answer with your scenario because it would never happen in that way.

Butch



Termyn8or -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/4/2009 6:28:10 AM)

"they still didn't surrender until we incinerated a second one"

Actually that's not true, Japan did surrender to Russia but Russia kept word of it under their hat,,,,,, for a time. Nice folk over there then eh ?

T

Edited to add; Sorry I stepped on you HK, because I wanted to use the "reply to" button I didn't see that you had already covered that.

T



blacksword404 -> RE: 3 simple questions (2/5/2009 8:58:21 PM)

To the first question I would have to say no I probably would not say no to the Crown.
To the second I would go home. That one was tested when we had that tornado come thru Atlanta.
And for the third, The bombs would get dropped.



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