RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them?

RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (Full Version)

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NuevaVida -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/5/2009 12:10:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealSub58 Ya all don't get the point. Human beings who use deal breaker lies to get their way with no regret and no remorse are nothing but lying machines. You have a fat ass woman. Ya know sprog your art is horrible. Who in God's name is gonna say this? Instead~~~~ Ya know woman, your ass looks better in that cute blue dress. Instead ~~~~ Ya know sprog your art work is creative and very fun to look at. It's the perspective one puts on lying. Lying is all tied up in one's trustworthiness, integrity and consciousness If my fat ass looks better in the blue dress than the pink one, then it isn't a lie, it's the truth. [;)] That said, I personally have no issue with someone telling me my ass is fat - - because it is!! In fact, if someone said, "It's really not that big" I would be skeptical of them, because I have eyes and can see that yes, it really is that big. Don't lie to me. I need the truth. Now, that doesn't mean you have to be an asshole in the way you tell the truth - compassion and sensitivity go a long way. But to say "a liar tolerates a liar" implies somehow that if someone is ok with being lied to, then that person must also be a liar. There are all sorts of reasons someone might tolerate being lied to, none of which have anything to do with also being a liar. I used to tolerate being lied to, even though I would speak the truth.

fadwar -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/5/2009 1:02:33 PM)
thankyou so much for all your posts. fadwar means 'self sacrificing'. i am out it and on to new things now happy in my decision and yes will definitely be more careful in future.

IrishMist -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/5/2009 1:56:41 PM)
quote: You have a fat ass woman. Ya know sprog your art is horrible. Who in God's name is gonna say this? I would. I stress to the youngins the importance of always telling me the truth, no matter what...that includes those little answers that in most eyes, are heartbreaking. Yes, I would tell them that their artwork sucks, yes I would tell them that they look fat in a certain kind of clothing, yes I would tell them that their hair or makeup looks like shit....if I expect it from them, they expect it from me...its only fair. HOwever, that does not change my stand...in regards to the op, I would still FIRST want to know WHAT WAS IN MY RELATIONSHIP THAT HE FELT THE NEED TO LIE TO ME about something. Then, and only then, would I decide if I could live with it or not.

agirl -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/5/2009 2:23:53 PM)
I don't need the truth from all and sundry. It's absolutely no skin off my nose if someone wants/needs to lie or embellish something about themselves. I wouldn't get shirty or pissed off about it. It's too easy to be absolute about lying when it's not in any context. I know to what extent I can trust the people close to me, from M and the sprogs to people not so close. I have enormous trust in the sprogs despite knowing they lie to me sometimes. More than once I've walked away from one of my son's bedrroms thinking * Mmmhmmm, yes, I SO believe that you've got NO homework outstanding.. I'm not fooled, I don't care about their lie....sooner or later they'll have to pitch in and get that work done having procrastinated. I have a laid back attitude to these types of truth avoidances*. agirl

YourhandMyAss -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/5/2009 3:50:38 PM)
In our case there was nothing wrong with the relationship he was lying to cover up the fact he was ducking responsibility and refusing to deal with the huge mess of things he made with his land lady. quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist Personally, I would rather want to know what was wrong in my relationships that a partner felt the need to lie *before* walking out the door and possibly throwing away something good.

DavanKael -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/5/2009 8:06:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealSub58 quote: ORIGINAL: DavanKael quote: ORIGINAL: RealSub58 How can anyone quantify lies as deal breakers or not deal breakers.One small lie that is not a deal breaker can snowball into something so huge !! Many lies that are not deal breakers says the person is a lying machine ~~ but its all good?? Nope. This says to me, a liar tolerates a liar. Perhaps you are as polar as this suggests. If that works for you and yours, I say, emphatically, rock on. The issue I am going to raise is your summarily judging (Including name-calling) others and drawing conclusions that may not be correct. Certainly, a constellation of small lies can build up into something massive and deal-breaking but I'd not consider it reasonable to toss a relationship over a lie over whether or not a person did the laundry. Now, a bunch of those tied together across time would evidence a big issue, in my opinion, and likely make the relationship untennable. Finding out that someone is cheating would, for me, be an immediate ticket out the door and, in the words of Russell Crowe from "Gladiator", I would "unleash Hell". Again, what works for you and yours is fine for you and yours, but it's rather off-putting to see something to very judgmental and polar levelled against those who do not relate exactly as you do. Davan wtf Davan, you said EXACTLY what I said, more words and a very different way... So whats up with this crap??Perhaps you are as polar as this suggests. If that works for you and yours, I say, emphatically, rock on. The issue I am going to raise is your summarily judging (Including name-calling) others and drawing conclusions that may not be correct. This is offencive to me to say "Polar" jeeez Ya all don't get the point. Human beings who use deal breaker lies to get their way with no regret and no remorse are nothing but lying machines. You have a fat ass woman. Ya know sprog your art is horrible. Who in God's name is gonna say this? Instead~~~~ Ya know woman, your ass looks better in that cute blue dress. Instead ~~~~ Ya know sprog your art work is creative and very fun to look at. It's the perspective one puts on lying. Lying is all tied up in one's trustworthiness, integrity and consciousness RealSub58---- I have read and agreed with many of your posts. The one to which I replied seemed off-the-wall, extreme, and not really in keeping with what I recall the tone of your usual posts to be. I don't think we said exactly the same thing. What I found most distressing is the assertion that a liar tolerates a liar. Find me a human who says they haven't lied and I'll believe that about as much as I believe someone who says they've never masturbated. I actually agree with you that people who use non-deal breaker lies to get their way are lying machines. I had the extreme displeasure of being in a relationsip with a male whose wife was one of those people and I found the curr extremely distasteful. It's often a bratty manipulation, topping from the bottom, and/or not taking responsibility. Certainly lying as a practice is evidence of a lack of integrity but I found your ultimate conclusion of the first post flawed. Davan

DavanKael -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/5/2009 8:08:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss In our case there was nothing wrong with the relationship he was lying to cover up the fact he was ducking responsibility and refusing to deal with the huge mess of things he made with his land lady. quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist Personally, I would rather want to know what was wrong in my relationships that a partner felt the need to lie *before* walking out the door and possibly throwing away something good. YHMA---- I'd say that that is evidence of problems in your relationship but each unto their own. Davan

agirl -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/6/2009 10:08:07 AM)
Lying as a practice is a great description of something that'd inhibit my trust in a person in ways. I also know that someone close to melies their arse off and yet I still have a certain trust in them. That's because I know WHY and where they do it. They DO have a lack of integrity in ways that I don't and we are BOTH liars in our own *ways. I can't be arsed to spend my time working out who's lying to me in what way and who's not. I've never been able to work out WHY it matters to people so much. agirl

Anastasia25 -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/7/2009 6:28:22 PM)
DEEP TRUST is necessary for me to submit to a Dom. After all, how can I substitute my will with his own if he is not trustworthy? And if he is not trustworthy, he is not worthy to be my Dom. And that's all there is to it...

RealSub58 -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/7/2009 8:07:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavanKael RealSub58---- I have read and agreed with many of your posts. The one to which I replied seemed off-the-wall, extreme, and not really in keeping with what I recall the tone of your usual posts to be. I don't think we said exactly the same thing. What I found most distressing is the assertion that a liar tolerates a liar. Why is it distressing and so extreme? The conversation has been about deal breaking lies or not deal breaking lies. If someone is gonna lie to me all the time and I cannot tell when the truth is coming out, is that not tolerating the lies? Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf? Is that a deal or no deal lie? I am someone touchy about this because a dom who I belonged to couldn't tell me something without me wondering "is he lying again?" After about 18 months I learned a no deal vs deal breaker lie. Yes, it took me a while but I walked. I didn't need to ask for release. Find me a human who says they haven't lied and I'll believe that about as much as I believe someone who says they've never masturbated. I agree with you. I am not saying I have NEVER told either sort of lie. But let me tell you I DO KNOW quilt and shame from not telling the truth. I actually agree with you that people who use non-deal breaker lies to get their way are lying machines. I had the extreme displeasure of being in a relationsip with a male whose wife was one of those people and I found the curr extremely distasteful. It's often a bratty manipulation, topping from the bottom, and/or not taking responsibility. Certainly lying as a practice is evidence of a lack of integrity but I found your ultimate conclusion of the first post flawed. Davan If its flawed, I really don't care. I have had enough manipulations and liars in my own family let alone outside my family to believe deeply what I write. And NO I do not masturbate. That is God's truth. But I have a reason I do not. Pssssst....... the reason has nothing to do with my Sir saying I can or can't. [:)]

oceanwynds -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/7/2009 8:17:37 PM)
When trust is broken it is extremely hard to ever get it back. So to have stayed with him, most likely that element of trust would be non-existent. Please reconsider that you were not enough for him. Most likely that wasn't the case. I not sure what the lies were about, i can only guess, but nothing gives an okay to repeating lies. That is the situation; the repeat lies. Please also be good to yourself during this time. Don't be beating yourself up with what ifs blessings oceanwynds

Serenelysmiles -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/8/2009 1:52:54 PM)
I'm kind of black and white on this subject. I can't even lie to children about Santa Claus (had to avoid this conversation at all costs with Master's children this year. Luckily, He interceded on the occasions it did come up). I think that I could get past a white lie about something insignificant, but even that would make me doubt the other person's veracity, or at least, plant the seeds of doubt, which amounts to the same thing. A blatant, or harmful deception would cause me to walk away, no questions asked. I wouldn't take the time to ask for release as that would be an indicator I still had respect for that person, and viewed them in some regard as my Master. Anyone that would lie in that way is not Master of even himself, let alone of me.

Serenelysmiles -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/8/2009 1:55:19 PM)
I agree with Oceanwynds, as well. Never think you weren't enough for him. His lies were his problem, and not based on anything that you did. Don't carry someone else's baggage for them.

Claryce -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/8/2009 7:15:27 PM)
Some people are just habitual liars.

thegirlincharge -> RE: what would other subbies do if their Master lied to them? (2/8/2009 7:18:01 PM)
A Master who is a habitual liar? Sounds like he is not a Master...just a lying guy.

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