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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/8/2009 3:05:33 PM   
Twicehappy2x


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pissdoll

i pay no fees to my bank, my credit card company or to atms. ever. does this make me a genius? am i more brilliant than anyone else in town?? hardly. i'm just responsible. i keep track of my balance and don't spend more than i have. i don't charge more than i can afford to pay off at the end of the month . i only use the atm at my bank or places where there is no fee for cash (supermarket). i keep track of due dates and pay my bills on time. if i can't afford it, i don't buy it.

i don't feel the government should have to step in on my behalf should i choose to live beyond my means. i also don't think it's fair to blame THAT aspect of the industry on the banks themselves.



My thoughts and way of doing things exactly!
 
Credit cards? Yes i have them, you almost have to now days, to rent a car, reserve a room etc.
 
But i have NEVER carried a balance.
 
I agree, way too many folks live beyond their means then want big brother to change the rules to cover their assets.

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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/8/2009 3:27:50 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vaughner

I wish to draw from the peanut gallery.  So I will propose this.

First off I am a believer in small government.  That is I believe the government should get involved to solve a problem only when no other entity is capable (or willing) to do so.  One place I believe the government needs to get involved is banking practices.  No I am not refering to the major collapses currently going on, this is a different issue.

Where I see a need to get involved is predatory practices by these banking instutitions.  For example
A credit card says your bill is due the day of the 21st.  On the 21st you call and pay them with a check by phone.  The problem is the 21st is a Saturday, and since they only process on business days your account does not post until Tuesday.  Bam they smack you with a late fee, and raise your rates.  Despite the fact you did make your payment on time.

Another one, where banks withdraw from and overdraft your account should you cash a check that bounces.  You were not the wrong-doer, yet you are now the one being punished fo rit.

Or perhaps these banks that like to overdraft based on your "available balance" rather than your total balance.

These are preadatory practices that bilk people out of untold sums of money each year, with few institutions that do not follow this practice.  In fact the only one I know of that does none of these three is Ford Credit.

If politicians really cared about people, rather than the corporations and the wealthy it seems to me that these are the kinds of banking issues that would be focused on.  Those that are most relevant to the folk, which affect them most.

What sayeth the peanut gallery?


Agree.  Another instance is when a credit card company does not go to the P.O. Box for several days so it can charge late fees.  The U.S. Post Office freely admitted this scam to me and said you should have a tracking number for an important payment to prove that the payment arrived on time since it was well known that they do not go near the box for days attempting to generate late fees.

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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/8/2009 3:30:15 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		One point to consider, sometimes you do need a credit card for paying on certain items such as appliances.  One place where I rented had a very small, crappy refrigerator and the landlord refused to replace it.  As there were 3-5 people in the household depending on how you count roommates and their significant others I bought new one at a local shop for about $500.  I paid that off within about 6 months and when moving out took the fridge with me.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/8/2009 3:47:38 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		The idea of small government in a nation of approx. 305,777,201 persons and growing is rather an oxymoron.
 
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vaughner
First off I am a believer in small government.  That is I believe the government should get involved to solve a problem only when no other entity is capable (or willing) to do so. 


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/8/2009 4:58:49 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

The idea of small government in a nation of approx. 305,777,201 persons and growing is rather an oxymoron.
 
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vaughner
First off I am a believer in small government.  That is I believe the government should get involved to solve a problem only when no other entity is capable (or willing) to do so. 



Are you being serious? Small is a relative term. a 10 story building is small compared to a 200 Story building. 2000 square feet is small compared to 200000 square feet.

Small, for the govenrmentt follows the same thinking. If we had 10000 government employs when the population was 2 million. It would follow the percentage should hold, if it increased in percentage then government is growing. (Those number are illustrative, not factual)

Anyway, It's crazy, to view "small" government as a fixed set of people, but it's not if viewed as a percentage of the workforce, or a percentage of the GDP absorbed in running it, or many other ways.

It is possible for more people to employed in government every year and actually become a smaller government, it depends on the rate of growth of both in comparison to each other.







< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 2/8/2009 5:01:07 PM >

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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/8/2009 5:00:27 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pissdoll

i don't see any predatory practices in what you are describing.


FDIC: Bank overdraft fees hit young, low-income customers ...Overdraft fees are boosting banks' profits at the expense of consumers, especially young and low-income people, finds a new Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. ...
www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2008-12-02-fdic-study-overdraft-fees_N.htm -

•Banks surveyed earned $1.97 billion in overdraft-related fees in 2006, representing 74% of their overall $2.66 billion in service charges on deposit accounts. In total, overdraft-related fees bring in $17.5 billion each year to banks and credit unions, estimates advocacy group Center for Responsible Lending.




USA Today exposes bank overdraft fee schemeUSA Today exposes bank overdraft fee scheme. August 4th, 2008 · 2 Comments. Did you know if you use your debit card you may get an overdraft charge at the ...
paydaypundit.org/2008/08/04/usa-today-exposes-bank-overdraft-fee-scheme/ - 47k -

Last year, the nation's banks and credit unions raked in about $40 billion in overdraft fees on consumers, about a third of that on debit cards, according to Michael Moebs of Moebs Services, an economic research firm.
A 2007 internal memo from Wachovia, one of the nation's largest banks, underscores the banks' addiction to this easy money. The memo, obtained by USA TODAY's Kathy Chu, warned employees not to refund too many overdraft fees because they "make up a big percentage of our revenue" ...........................................................................................
...............Banks say they've made it easier for consumers to track their balances to avoid fees. True, that's the customer's responsibility, and people shouldn't spend more than they have. But the Federal Reserve found that even diligent customers might have trouble keeping track. They don't know, for instance, precisely when a deposit will be made available.


< Message edited by rulemylife -- 2/8/2009 5:03:51 PM >

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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/8/2009 5:28:01 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I was being sarcastic and that did not translate well.  Proportionate government might be a better goal as you illustrate.


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Are you being serious? Small is a relative term. a 10 story building is small compared to a 200 Story building. 2000 square feet is small compared to 200000 square feet.

Small, for the govenrmentt follows the same thinking. If we had 10000 government employs when the population was 2 million. It would follow the percentage should hold, if it increased in percentage then government is growing. (Those number are illustrative, not factual)

Anyway, It's crazy, to view "small" government as a fixed set of people, but it's not if viewed as a percentage of the workforce, or a percentage of the GDP absorbed in running it, or many other ways.

It is possible for more people to employed in government every year and actually become a smaller government, it depends on the rate of growth of both in comparison to each other.


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/8/2009 5:31:16 PM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

One point to consider, sometimes you do need a credit card for paying on certain items such as appliances. 


Grins, guess i am an oddball, i've always kept a fund for making emergency purchases. But, kudos, you paid your credit card off as fast as you could.

quote:

Original Lorr47

Another instance is when a credit card company does not go to the P.O. Box for several days so it can charge late fees.


The cure for this is either set up automatic payments from your bank account, pay your bill online yourself from your bank account or send your payments so they can be tracked by the post office so if need be you can prove the date it arrived to your creditors.
 
quote:

Original rulemylife
 
...............Banks say they've made it easier for consumers to track their balances to avoid fees. True, that's the customer's responsibility, and people shouldn't spend more than they have. But the Federal Reserve found that even diligent customers might have trouble keeping track. They don't know, for instance, precisely when a deposit will be made available.


If folks are having this issue they need to either switch banks to one that gives "x" amount of over draft protection without charging any fees. Or pay attention to their online statement, "available balance" is what you have to spend.
 
Even then, you need to be very aware of when certain bills are due if you use automatic bill payment.
 
I am not saying this stuff is easy, but most of it is not that hard either. 


< Message edited by Twicehappy2x -- 2/8/2009 5:32:48 PM >

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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/8/2009 6:24:10 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

Original rulemylife
 
...............Banks say they've made it easier for consumers to track their balances to avoid fees. True, that's the customer's responsibility, and people shouldn't spend more than they have. But the Federal Reserve found that even diligent customers might have trouble keeping track. They don't know, for instance, precisely when a deposit will be made available.


If folks are having this issue they need to either switch banks to one that gives "x" amount of over draft protection without charging any fees. Or pay attention to their online statement, "available balance" is what you have to spend.
 
Even then, you need to be very aware of when certain bills are due if you use automatic bill payment.
 
I am not saying this stuff is easy, but most of it is not that hard either. 



First and most obvious, if the FDIC is getting involved, and condemning the banks' practices, there must a valid reason to suspect that deceptive practices are being employed.

Read the links I provided or research the many other articles there are about the subject.

I think most people are pretty capable of managing simple banking practices, yet one article states that 50% of all bank customers are hit with at least one overdraft fee per year. 

Do you really believe 50% do not understand what you've just stated, or are there other factors involved here?


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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/8/2009 7:00:19 PM   
popeye1250


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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I totally agree with you, as does about 90% of the American people. The problem is that the banking industry has a much better lobby than the American  people.


I've been saying that we need to outlaw lobbyists for years now!
One thing is for sure, it's not the working people who need "oversight," the more "degrees" a person has the more supervision they need it would seem from the News reports these days.
After all, you can steal a lot more money with a pen than you can with a gun.

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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/9/2009 4:28:06 AM   
Twicehappy2x


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife 

I think most people are pretty capable of managing simple banking practices, yet one article states that 50% of all bank customers are hit with at least one overdraft fee per year. 

Do you really believe 50% do not understand what you've just stated, or are there other factors involved here?


Not understand? No, i think most understand the the way banks are set up.
 
 Pay enough attention to what is going on with their account? I think a great majority of those having this type of issue just are not paying close enough attention. Or are living above their means to start with.
 
I have never had an over draft, for that matter in the three years i've been here i've never seen Scooter have one either.
 
I am not saying some banks/credit companies do practice deceptive policies.
 
But i am saying it is incumbent on the consumer to check out who they are doing business with, and to monitor their own spending carefully.

_____________________________

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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/9/2009 5:35:32 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Here is what pisses me off about banks. 

When I write a check to a store or whatever, it clears that evening.  I check my account and the money is gone.  Ok, nothing wrong with that.

However, when I deposit a check, it takes 2-3 days for it to clear and the money to be available.  Why the delay????  They take the money out instantly, but take a few days to add it to your account.

When I make a large deposit by check, (over $5000) they tell me it will be 10-18 days before the full amonut is available, WTF!!!!  I have even wrote checks from one bank account to another bank account and the money cleared that evening but the total amount was not applied for several days.  It was the same F%#king bank...when I brought this to the managers attention, he said the delay was to insure the funds where there..  I'm like it's the same bank asshole.  (I closed all the accounts at that bank and moved to another) 

Yea, banks are honest my ass. 


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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/9/2009 5:52:31 AM   
4u2spoil


Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline 		Citibank is doing this too. I have a good payment history with them on a card that I've had for years now. In January I saw that my interest charges were much higher than normal. Reason? They raised my rate from a manageable 6.99% to 24.9%!

With no missed or late payments, no over limit problems or anything else. I rejected the terms and have a few more years to pay the card off, but that they could jack my rate up to something so utterly ridiculous really pissed me off.

There definitely need to be banking reforms, but Washington is so firmly in bed with the banks that it's difficult to get any real reform. I think there was a rep from NY (Carolyn something) who tried to get a bill through that would give consumers better credit card rights. Guess what? Still stuck in the house.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vaughner

And on top of that some of these agencies such as HSBC who back numerous specialty credit cards (Alienware, Best Buy, Home Depot, Lowe's etc) is now forcing customers to accept a major increase in minimum rates regardless of payment history or have their accounts closed.  All of this while they are being showered with money from Washington.

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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/9/2009 6:17:58 AM   
4u2spoil


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

 Pay enough attention to what is going on with their account? I think a great majority of those having this type of issue just are not paying close enough attention. Or are living above their means to start with.
 
I have never had an over draft, for that matter in the three years i've been here i've never seen Scooter have one either.
 
I am not saying some banks/credit companies do practice deceptive policies.
 
But i am saying it is incumbent on the consumer to check out who they are doing business with, and to monitor their own spending carefully.


I'd be willing to bet that certain banks have more overdrafts than others though. When I was with Bank of America (and granted, this was in college where I was check to check from my part time jobs) I was always getting hit with maintenance fees at jussst the right time to overdraw my account by $2 or something. Then I'd get hit with the over limit fees, plus another over limit fee for the overlimit fee they'd just charged. And more often than not I'm paying them more in fees than I can put into the account. The thing that got me is that before almost any purchase, I'd go to an ATM to do a balance check so that I wouldn't spend more than I had available. Didn't make a difference.

While still in college, I switched to the bank I'm currently with today, and have never run into the same problems. No timing issues - what I had available was what I had available, and I never spent or withdrew any more than that. It took a while to build my account up, but not having ridiculous fees along the way certainly helped with that.

< Message edited by 4u2spoil -- 2/9/2009 6:25:37 AM >

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RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/9/2009 6:30:15 AM   
4u2spoil


Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline 		BofA did that to me too. I had a check for $10k,  but it was from BofA. The first person I went to tried to tell me it may be a week or two because the account was in a different state. I couldn't wrap my head around that. I'm like, I don't care if the account is in my back yard, if it's the same bank and you have a computer to verify that, why does it take up to 2 weeks to make the money available?

That's when I changed banks also. Between the fees for being a college student without a trust fund, and the delay in actually giving me money when I had it, I couldn't believe that what they were doing was legal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Here is what pisses me off about banks. 

When I write a check to a store or whatever, it clears that evening.  I check my account and the money is gone.  Ok, nothing wrong with that.

However, when I deposit a check, it takes 2-3 days for it to clear and the money to be available.  Why the delay????  They take the money out instantly, but take a few days to add it to your account.

When I make a large deposit by check, (over $5000) they tell me it will be 10-18 days before the full amonut is available, WTF!!!!  I have even wrote checks from one bank account to another bank account and the money cleared that evening but the total amount was not applied for several days.  It was the same F%#king bank...when I brought this to the managers attention, he said the delay was to insure the funds where there..  I'm like it's the same bank asshole.  (I closed all the accounts at that bank and moved to another) 

Yea, banks are honest my ass. 



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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Where the government should get involved - 2/9/2009 7:44:38 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		fr

Deal with the devil. I am extremely cautious when it comes to bank dealings. I am one of the last people on Earth who has an ATM card without a MC or Visa logo. That means it cannot be used at point of sale without the PIN, and that is exactly how I want it.

I have bounced one check in my entire life, and that happened because I literally thought a person I had written another check to had died or something. My cousin had these Cerwin Vega speakers and I just had to have them. This other check did not clear for like six months. I write the check and guess what ! The fucker must've popped out of the grave and cashed my check, leaving me about $1.47 short in the account. They did not pat the check, I made it good by just giving my cousin the cash about a week later. Why do I owe the bank money ? They did not pay out.

I have a unique situation now, and for good reason. I deal very little with banks. My checks are cashed at work, and per my contract they pay all my taxes. Money is only put in the bank to cover the checks to be written that month, and other times the balance might be about a hundred bucks.

But it'snice that this subject got brought up. Consider it an abject lesson in how money is made these days. It seems funny because we produce damnear nothing in this country, but that's the way it is. Used to be the industrialists had the money. Something killed them off. Are you recieving me ? Something killed them off.

And now we stand here. The most lucrative jobs in this country involve holding people's money for them or spending money you don't have. There is no output, no product, nothing anyone wants to buy. Good thing Henry Ford's grave is soundproof, because I don't think he would just roll over, I think he would claw his way out of it and start killing people. Who do you think he would start with ?

T

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