RE: Can you trust again..

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jesiul -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/10/2009 8:30:30 AM)
A person who cheats in a relationship will always do so, they move onto another relationship in which they do not cheat, but they have already decided that the value of the current relationship is not worth what they gain from cheating. Cheating gives them more than they have within the marriage and have little if any remorse about having done the deed. When the cheating is found out they feel bad, but most of that distress, is that they will for sometime be unable to freely continue with the behavior that was giving them such pleasure and satisfaction. Cheaters are liars and will lie to you while cheating, while being caught and as they resume the cheating. The relationship you once had died (for him) a long time ago, it is only you who is trying in vain to give artificial respiration to your relationship. It is now up to you to pronounce the death of your marriage. The end of a marriage is often worse emotionally than having a spouse die. When a spouse dies people understand you are in mourning and lend you support and sympathy, when there is a divorce, the death is that of a relationship and few will understand the devastation it does to the person side swiped. However you can not hold a person to you, who is already gone. You must release yourself from the web of pain that is now your relationship. Do not invest anymore, you have lost enough, it is now time to mourn and begin renewing who you are on a path that will give you inner joy. Don’t let the moments of happiness you have had, fill up the years of disillusionment and sorrow you have had because of his betrayal. Moments do not fill years. ~jesi~

HeavansKeeper -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/10/2009 9:18:06 AM)
Subcassie, You have many people here saying "No trust, no relationship" or some variant. While I don't disagree, I feel that is not applicable advice. You say your master has had two other run-ins with Mistresses in the past, and now a third. You also want him to be open and honest. You're also a self admitted "Natural born submissive who takes the lifestyle seriously". Is this all accurate? I'm a man with a PetGirl who I adore. I also have a submissive side that creeps up on me once every few months. I suspect your master may not be so different. She and I play with a switch female who has helped me satisfy my submissive fantasies one on one, only a handful of times including Pet. I feel terribly guilty when Pet learns about the side I've suppressed through another woman. It's not fair to her, and she so dearly wants me to be happy. The problem is I don't feel comfortable exploring that side with Pet. She has proven to be a fine mistress when I send her to top another female, and eagerly wants me to be fulfilled, but she draws zero pleasure from being my top. Yes, I could order her to top me, but that's not the same: If she takes no pleasure in my submission, then I don't either. How open are you to his needs? If he NEEDS to submit occasionally, are you willing to accept that? Are you willing to accept him having others in his life? You cannot be his everything. 9 years is a long time to be together. Life can easily find a rut in far less time. I'm a big fan of shaking things up. I'm going to offer some advice heavily steeped in male chauvinism. (I doubt this is a problem when your husband is also your master and owner): Put yourself second and get into it. Make him happy. If he's willing to explain what he wants, despite any shame or fear, make it happen. What's better: 1) Sitting on his lap picking out submissives to play with. 2) Sitting on the couch eating a pint of ice cream thinking about who he's out meeting. I've said a lot here, and it may be poorly explained due to keeping it as brief as possible, so I'll recap: 1) Requesting honesty requires you create an atmosphere free of judgment of the truth. 2) Don't be a victim. 3) Consider that you may not be able to satisfy these needs. Now... There is a chance I'm dreadfully wrong. I wouldn't want you (or anyone) staying in an abusive relationship. Cuckoldry loses its luster when the bottom doesn't gain that sick pleasure. You asked if you could ever trust him again. I am submitting that you never solved the problem of why he went outside the relationship the first and second time. Resolve it for real. Edit: Re-reading my post, I realize the potential dangers. If you follow my advice, please also read: The Cycles of Abuse I think it will help keep perspective on the situation.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/10/2009 9:22:33 AM)
If you can live with him continuing to lie to you, without losing your self respect, then more power to you. Stay with him - and start a bank account that he doesn't know about - and contribute as much as you can, as often as you can. Just in case. If you can't live with his lying, get organised to leave. Start a bank account that he knows nothing about, and contribute to it as often, and as much as you can. Put your important papers in a bank. If you don't have a seperate checking account - open one. Apply for a credit card - and use for small purchases and pay off within two months. Be sensible. I don't think, in this case, that couples therapy will work - he has shown no signs that he wants to change. edited for typos

Lockit -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/10/2009 9:29:13 AM)
It is clear that a poly situation was not agreed to in the first place. It is clear he promises not to do it again when caught... not doing what a responsible human being and dominant would in explaining his needs and what he must do to meet them and now what changes he expects in the relationship. To tell someone to understand someone or something, they cannot go on assumptions and as a dominant I believe it would be my job to inform my submissive and get to it in assuring her/him that I am handling the problems... not covering them up. You cannot hold a submissive or anyone accountable or expect them to change a situation in any way when the dominant is not holding up his end of things. THAT is abuse. You make the submissive feel as if they are not providing something they should... you make them deal with a situation with a serious lack of consideration for them and honesty. That is poor domination to say the least. It is also not a very aware dominant and one who is cruel and subjects the submissive to unfair emotional things which result in many lacks of trust, feeling safe and open to any change a responsible dominant could bring about. The responsiblity here in my opinion belongs to the dominant not doing what he should as a dominant and as a partner/husband/decent human being. I place this right in the hands of the dominant who isn't a very good dominant if he isn't expressing his true feelings and needs and who is acting out like a sex addict with no concern for his wife and submissive. It starts with the big dog... and since the big dog is all bite and no real alpha leadership... he has nothing but teeth and is dangerous and does harm.

MasterTslave -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/10/2009 10:07:23 AM)
JMO...BUT, you asked for it..I don't think you need to worry about ever being able to trust him again...I would think you should worry if you are ABLE to trust him again..sounds like a giant jerk to me.

HeavansKeeper -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/10/2009 10:43:54 AM)
Lockit, I'm not sure if your response was directly to me or the "general you." I agree that this situation needs a change, and that it isn't fair to the slave to bear all the painful changes. Failing to change who you are to fit the fancies of someone else is not failing them. Also, I agree that if one is willing to bear the responsibility and joy of owning another, one must be centered first. My traditional advice for relationships is to not sink a ship because the hull is scratched, but take a moment to see if there's structural damage. More directly, nine years is a long time to be together. I'm sure there was more good than bad, even with three counts of adultery. I know I'm saying something something unpopular and potentially dangerous. I'm merely suggesting the possibility that the three indiscretions are the same problem, which was never dealt with. Promising "ok, next time I'll be honest and open" without making any change to why one couldn't be honest and open the first time is a bandaid. Bandaids don't fix broken bones. See if there's an amicable solution to the problem. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. If Subcassie doesn't want to find a solution, then she loses her master. (Which might, sadly, be a good thing). If she's willing to dig into the root of the problem and make a solution, not just a promise of change, then there's a 50-50* chance of staying together. (Which, again, may not be such a good thing). Assuming the goal is to fix the relationship, 50% chance is better than 0% chance. Assuming the goal is the escape abuse (and the relationship constitutes abuse) then the 100% is better than the 50%. *When odds are unknown, setting them to 50-50 makes gives the statistician the same odds of being right as wrong, which is the best we can hope for in a guessing game.

Lockit -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/10/2009 12:33:52 PM)
Thank you HeavensKeeper. I do understand your position and not just in understanding what you are saying. We often rush to kill something that isn't quite dead yet and it is a shame in many situations. I take a look at these things from a number of different places that I have been both personally and professionally. One is... a stand of woman, hear me roar... a man who cheats and lies to his best friend will lie to and cheat anyone and a liar rarely changes. Another is coming from counseling for domestic abuse, marital issues, life issues, parenting and so forth. Running a shelter one can become a bit jaded and I have worked to not be quick on the draw... but there are certain signs as red flags I would rather not risk in deciding what needs to be done. Another is the emotional places crisis in a relationship can take you. Before the cheating spouse can or should be considered, the one cheated on must have some attention and focus. They are often shattered emotionally by betrayal and feeling very vulnerable and insecure which can lead to a lot of different emotions. They can blame themselves or feel as if they were not enough... they can get stuck on a pity party.. they can lay blame and not see any part they might have... they can ask, why, why, why and be crushed in victim mode. There are more... but I say these for an example. In most relationships where things were worked out, I saw that a break in the situation had to take place and an evening out of the emotions and a time when every moment of every day, the people had to be calm and dealing with one another. Typically they would separate until they could talk, the cheater knew he wasn't getting away with things this time and could evaluate many things. The one cheated on could get through that panic of loss and betrayal a bit easier as he/she wasn't in their face each and every day. Sure it was hell at first... but sometimes you have to walk through fire to get to heaven. To stay together often brought on little comments or actions that worked on the over sensitive and real emotional pain and explosion resulted. Sometimes it is better to walk from an argument when too upset and this is one of those situations where there is a lot of upset. Sometimes a break, even if only for a week, is needed. Anyone who is so selfish that they would repeatedly disregaurd the well being of someone they claim to love is someone I would not encourage someone to stay with. Emotional pain can cause all sorts of emotional problems as well as physical problems and the stress is too much at what point? A week down the road with headaches and such or ten years down the road after dealing with many years of marriage and mulitple times of cheating and hurt? If a person stays with someone who repeatedly treats them badly.. even if not on a daily basis and just a once in a while thing, loses respect for the bad guy, but also themselves. It is best to get support systems lined up... people who will not be jaded in how they advise or support and don't have an agenda and build the self esteem up so that they can set boundaries that will protect them if the person who should be protecting them out of love, isn't doing so. Otherwise... you just might have a doormat maker situation and that is not good for anyone and creates an enviornment that a cheater can florish in and justify him/herself in.

windchymes -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/10/2009 2:36:59 PM)
I'd trust him about as far as I could pick him up and throw him.

HeavansKeeper -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/10/2009 3:06:40 PM)
Lockit brings up what is often a sad truth, and more likely than not, the presiding course of events about to unfold. Nine years is a lot of time and investment to shake... But 9 decent years is no reason to spend 40 in pain.

Subcassie -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/11/2009 9:53:57 AM)
Hi Thank you all for your comments they have really helped me, and one that really hit home was 'Wait, he's proved himself a liar and a cheat...repeatedly....and now HE"S not sure he wants to be with YOU????' It will not be easy leaving him after 9 years and those of you who have been here before know the pain, panic and fear that sets in and you think how can I go on without him, where do I go now, what will I do now with my life , how can I stop loving him etc etc. I only wish I knew the answers to these questions, but one thing is for sure he does not deserve me. Thank you all once again for taking the time to help me its really appreciated.

Lockit -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/11/2009 10:02:42 AM)
I wish you well subcassie... my heart hurts for you knowing the type of pain you feel... but life does go on and there is a lot that could happen! I think a lot of us here are proof that there is happiness to be found after a painful relationship. This may be an ending... but it is also a beginning. Hugs!

SailingBum -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/11/2009 8:28:46 PM)
3 times and yer out....Why in the world would you want to trust him again? If you can't live without him, learn how to deal with the affairs. BadOne

Huntertn -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/11/2009 9:28:04 PM)
other than seeing the Dommies..and the subs..has he lied about anything else? the reason I ask..is maybe he will contiue to see them..so yo might have to either accept it..or leave...? Huntertn

FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/11/2009 11:41:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Subcassie He is not sure whether he still wants to be with me as we have been through some stressful times This is the biggest problem you have in my view, if the only thing he has been dishonest about, is dating other mistresses/subs... And I think this because you say quote: believe it or not I adore him and cannot imagine life without him so only time will tell. I wonder if I could ever trust him again... Please help.... If you cannot imagine life without him, I'm guessing you imagine you are able to stay with a master who lies to, and cheats on you. It's unfortunate when relationships that you've invested in come to an end... But unfortunately for you, it sounds like he has lost all respect for you and doesn't care about how you feel. I hope things turn out okay for you, M

MoGa -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/12/2009 12:32:14 AM)
Everyone has said alot of great things and given some very good advice. I just have one thing to point out. Whoever he is fucking, you are also fucking. I would be more concerned over what kind of disease he may bring home to you, than I would as to whether you can trust him or anyone again. Yes, I am blunt. But the truth often is. MoGa

BondageBarbieX -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/12/2009 4:40:13 PM)
If this is a constant problem I doubt he will stop...if you can not live with out him you might have to be willing to have an open relationship.

Aneirin -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/12/2009 5:52:46 PM)
Every amicable relationship is based upon trust, once the trust has gone, what is left ? One may ask why stay with a person when trust is gone, well their are many excuses used, but at the end of the day it is down to yourself and what you want out of life, your existence as it is now, or something better. But, do not make the mistake that people in this lifestyle are anything better than others, where people are involved, and people in partnership with another, anything goes, here there is no difference , be someone dom, domme, sub, slave , switch or anything in between, they are still people and as people they are subject to whatever is best for them. Maybe it is rare to find a truly selfless person, maybe it is wrong for a person to be selfless, because selflessness can hide unhappiness.

antipode -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/12/2009 8:51:23 PM)
quote: I wonder if I could ever trust him again. You can't imagine life without him. You sound like a victim, I am afraid, going back for more abuse. Find a women's self help group.

SirDarkside357 -> RE: Can you trust again.. (2/23/2009 3:21:47 AM)
Hummmm, he lied to you....apparently more than once.... why would you want to trust him again... to be lied to...again...cut your loses...kick him to the curb....and yes, I am a heartless bastard.

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