RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (Full Version)

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NYLass -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 4:32:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ronnie39

Obama is out of his depth. The man is in way over his head. God help us al!!!!!!!!!!!



Whose Al, and what are his credentials????

Sorry I had to. 





MzMia -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 4:34:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I didn't mean his oratorical skills, Mia.  I mean the doom and gloom and "never" pulling out of the recession unless we pass his package.



well, lol
A healthy dose of gloom and doom is okay!
[8|]
He should have said we are in a DEPRESSION and it will be worse and last 20 years,

without the stimulus package!


Unfortunately, I think the stimulus package is gonna land us in an Depression that will dwarf the Great Depression.

We're in this mess due to decades of spending money we don't have....and now they're trying to fix it by spending more money that we don't have.

Look at the world even...they in many ways copied our failed economic policies of the last 80 years, and now the world is going bankrupt.  Spending money we don't have when we're insolvent as a nation is not the answer.


You may have a point here.
How come no-one rarely mentions the millions of jobs that have been outsourced?
Were those jobs expendable?
I am trying to still wrap my head about a country that outsources many of its jobs to other

countries, than has to create jobs.
[8|]

Outsourcing America's Future

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html

I need someone to tell me we did not NEED these jobs in America, please!




corysub -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 4:49:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NYLass

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ronnie39

Obama is out of his depth. The man is in way over his head. God help us al!!!!!!!!!!!



Whose Al, and what are his credentials????

Sorry I had to. 




If you knew Al  you would never ask about his credentials...although to be PC the question might be about his/her credentials.

There is only one "Madonna" Ven, and a lot of people believe the other one was not a virgin.  There is only one "Bono", one "Gipper" and, of course, one "Al"...Al Gore silly... Al who will save the planet and our country...Although redundant, I share the prayer with Ronnie.."God save us Al"




MsDonnaMia -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 5:48:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDonnaMia
PARANOIA // RUSH LIMBAUGH // FEAR MONGERING // FOX NEWS // PARANOIA // TALK RADIO // FEAR MONGERING


quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama, pressuring lawmakers to urgently approve a massive economic recovery bill, turned his first prime-time news conference Monday night into a determined defense of his emergency plan and an offensive against Republicans who try to "play the usual political games."

He said the recession has left the nation so weak that only the federal government can "jolt our economy back to life." And he declared that failure to act swiftly and boldly "could turn a crisis into a catastrophe."


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090210/D968ER280.html




Yeah..so? Many economists and pundits agree we must act. It doesn't mean passing the plan will spell certain doom and gloom for America. let's not go overboard here.




MsDonnaMia -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 5:50:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDonnaMia


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


We are fucked, there is no getting around that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

The congressional budget office says that this "stimulus" will hurt the gdp more than the recession. nice. 




PARANOIA // RUSH LIMBAUGH // FEAR MONGERING // FOX NEWS // PARANOIA // TALK RADIO // FEAR MONGERING


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cbo-obama-stimulus-harmful-over-long-haul/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/09/the-800-billion-gamble-ec_n_165146.html




Articles expressing concern or calculating possible economic outcomes isn't the same as saying OMG Armageddon, Satan's coming soon!




Sanity -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 5:55:00 AM)

Still don't get it? Here, let me break it down for you a little further...

PARANOIA // FEAR MONGERING // PARANOIA // FEAR MONGERING

B.O.: "...could turn a crisis into a catastrophe."

PARANOIA // FEAR MONGERING // PARANOIA // FEAR MONGERING





starshineowned -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 5:57:14 AM)

Greetings..

What I found interesting is just before the President spoke..Master and I were watching the senators speak about this stimulus bill, and the last one we heard was describing all the ear marks that were in this bill..yet the President profess's there are none.

Hmmm..new fancy golf carts..yes yes..those are definetely a must.

starshine




Crush -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 5:59:48 AM)

So are we headed towards an authoritarian nationalist ideology focused on solving economic, political, and social problems that its supporters see as causing national decline or decadence?  You know, Fascism?

I like Obama...as a person.  I think he would be a great neighbor.  Poker buddy.  Minister.  But his idea of what is and isn't pork.   { yeah, I know, cheap joke about a Muslim not recognizing pork off the pig is in there somewhere.}

After all, earmarks are usually pork, but not all pork is an earmark.

To get me to agree about this bill is quite simple.  Short term fixes.  Long term policy changes. Help those that need it short term.

THEN come back and let's debate the other issues such as health care that have been stuck in this bill under a long term vision.

I don't care that the previous congress and bush did it wrong.   We know that.  I want to see a vision that I can agree to as the best for our country.  In the discrete steps towards a realistic vision of the USA's future.

Ed to add: 
We now KNOW for certain that B.O. isn't Muslim ... look at all the pork he's putting into the "Stimulus bill" and expecting us to eat it up...




Sanity -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 6:03:15 AM)


True.

quote:


FACT CHECK: Obama has it both ways on pork



WASHINGTON (AP) - At least Route 31 is a road to somewhere. President Barack Obama had it both ways Monday when he promoted his stimulus plan in Indiana. He bragged about getting Congress to produce a package with no pork, yet boasted it will do good things for a Hoosier highway and a downtown overpass, just the kind of local projects lawmakers lard into big spending bills.

Obama's sales pitch on the enormous package he wants Congress to make law has sizzle as well as steak. He's projecting job creation numbers that may be impossible to verify and glossing over some ethical problems that bedeviled his team.

Full article here






MsDonnaMia -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 6:07:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Still don't get it? Here, let me break it down for you a little further...

PARANOIA // FEAR MONGERING // PARANOIA // FEAR MONGERING

B.O.: "...could turn a crisis into a catastrophe."

PARANOIA // FEAR MONGERING // PARANOIA // FEAR MONGERING





So you're quoting Obama about failure to act. It's not an appraisal of the failure of the act. Mild difference there, dont ya think?

Yeah but... PARANOIA // FEAR MONGERING // SOUR GRAPES // TALK RADIO // FOX NEWS // RUSH LIMBAUGH // PARANOIA




RacerJim -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 6:14:23 AM)

My thoughts on NObama's speech last night?   BAMBOOZLING BUSH-BASHING BULLSHIT...nothing less, nothing more...just like his campaign.




Sanity -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 6:17:52 AM)


The point is that the Barack Obama is your fearmongerer. What he was claiming in that quote is that if he doesn't get his way RIGHT NOW we're in for a catastrophe.

Do you know what a catastrophe is?

quote:



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/catastrophe

1: the final event of the dramatic action especially of a tragedy
2: a momentous tragic event ranging from extreme misfortune to utter overthrow or ruin
3 a: a violent and sudden change in a feature of the earth b: a violent usually destructive natural event (as a supernova)
4: utter failure : fiasco <the party was a catastrophe>













ElectraGlide -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 6:27:00 AM)

The Democrats just dont get it, and never will. They are so jealous of the rich and want to tax and screw them anyway they can. I am sorry but we work work for the rich, dont fuck with them, they will sit on their money, like they are now, and make us feel the pain. The economy collapsed because we knew a Democrat was going to get elected with a fossil running against him. Obama and his Union support stance, will beat us further in the ground. All major companies have their eyes on Mexico and Canada to save their hides, I dont blame them. The next 4 years will be rough, hang on and take a bad ride.




MsDonnaMia -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 6:36:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The point is that the Barack Obama is your fearmongerer. What he was claiming in that quote is that if he doesn't get his way RIGHT NOW we're in for a catastrophe.

Do you know what a catastrophe is?


Have you looked at the job loss ratings for January? If his policies work, we will be in a better place. If not, I'll be next to you bitching him out, I promise.




Sanity -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 6:42:33 AM)


Presidents don't create jobs, they take money from people who do through taxation so that government bureaucrats can piss it away building bridges to nowhere.

If you think that the government is the answer you're sadly mistaken - government is what got us into this mess.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDonnaMia

Have you looked at the job loss ratings for January? If his policies work, we will be in a better place. If not, I'll be next to you bitching him out, I promise.





SilverMark -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 7:00:14 AM)

I suppose those that are so highly critical have the answers?...Perhaps we just sit and wait and allow for 20% plus unemployment?
I see nothing new here, only the same tired rhetoric I saw during the election. Sanity, you are correct in your statement that Obama is speaking in terms of fear, it is one scary time and for all of the posturing of Congress perhaps a little shock is needed. As I watch my competitors drop one by one, as I read the numbers of layoffs and closings as I watch my own business slowly die I want something done!.... The stimulus as it is proposed is much better than what her highness Ms. Pelosi proposed and Obama has tried to get bi-partisan support while those from the right sit and criticize without much input or compromise I believe his press conference was a great effort. I do not believe the Government by itself can right the wrongs of the past but, I do believe that some movement from them is needed. Those who think the man is in over his head after 22 days in office, would say the same about anyone who happened to fill the Oval Office. Funny to watch some who criticize the efforts to bring something to the table for everyone yet can spend billions on Iraq, give billions to the banks and they sit on the sidelines now? Amazing times, and a lack of action from those who can only oppose and yet offer nothing only re-enforces why it is that side of the aisle is in the minority.





DarkSteven -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 7:04:03 AM)

The solution to the problem is obvious.  A healthy, diversified economy, in which people have good jobs, and earn enough to both support the economy and also pay takes to support the government.

The tricky part is getting there.

Traditional conservative solutions idolize small, nimble companies that grab market gaps and fill needs, while paying the company owners and officers well and paying minimum wage to the workers.  Traditional liberal solutions idolize white collar workers and union labor.





MsDonnaMia -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 7:28:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Presidents don't create jobs, they take money from people who do through taxation so that government bureaucrats can piss it away building bridges to nowhere.

If you think that the government is the answer you're sadly mistaken - government is what got us into this mess.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDonnaMia

Have you looked at the job loss ratings for January? If his policies work, we will be in a better place. If not, I'll be next to you bitching him out, I promise.




Yes, a locked up right-wing government and a near useless Congress got us here. The Clinton years weren't all that bad from my memory. Let's see if we can get back on track again, rather than just bitching endlessly.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 7:29:52 AM)

~ Fast Reply ~
 
This isn't as much about specifics as it is the 'big picture'. To see the big picture - you have to take a step or two back from it.

The economy has no confidence in this Administration and especially in this Congress. While on specifics, does anyone know what they are based upon last night? Vague references to construction initiatives, but the specifics? That points to specific Congressmen saying they have no idea what's in the plan, "it took 3 seconds", and a "we have to do something" attitude. Based upon these comments, yes - I'd say until you have a specific plan doing nothing would be preferred.

Not surprised that lacking a plan, fear is used as the motivating factor. Fear projected to the mostly naive and uninformed public is a great tactic. The President seems to want to keep it at a base level addressing his constituency. He has them afraid, and needs 'faith-based' acceptance, as he had during his campaign, to keep his popularity. Why use fear if your plan is so good? Why already have a 'whoops - sorry' strategy in the plan by announcing it with apologetic, and projecting failure buzz by saying; "This isn't perfect." and  "We don't have all the answers." It seems that if we were keeping with the FDR model of creating a name for this, like the 'New Deal', it would be; "We had to try something!"

He also added a good dose of unverifiable goals.
quote:

OBAMA: "The plan that we've put forward will save or create 3 million to 4 million jobs over the next two years." THE FACTS: Job creation projections are uncertain even in stable times, and some of the economists relied on by Obama in making his forecast acknowledge a great deal of uncertainty in their numbers. Beyond that, it's unlikely the nation will ever know how many jobs are saved as a result of the stimulus. While it's clear when jobs are abolished, there's no economic gauge that tracks job preservation. Source: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090209/D968BMTO0.html 

There are definite jobs included in the plan. A new department or two of bureaucracy such as the new 'National Coordinator of Health Information Technology', are to be created. New bureaucrats and more drains to tax dollars in a time when they are scarce. Good time for that huh? Can't figure out if those are part of the 600,000 new bureaucrats to be hired that were a campaign promise.

Businesses, the viable ones not the failures getting hand outs, won't be adding employees, spending money, or making expansion plans as long as expanding government is the goal of this administration. Every government job adds to the problem of a greater deficit, and a greater tax burden.

BTW - Where was Iraq last night? Do we still have troops there? Is Iraq still costing us money? 

Edited to add:
More important than any of our thoughts - the people and money who could effect change thought this. At the opening DOW is down 110 points. That's the 'score' beyond the rhetoric.




ShhhImNotHere -> RE: Thoughts on President Obama's speech tonight? (2/10/2009 7:36:52 AM)

Missed the speech.
Watched the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show instead.




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