Anger issues and play (Full Version)

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MistressAinCT -> Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 5:04:13 AM)

I posted this on another board on another site, so I'm interested in what you have to say about it.  I left it in General so everyone can post.


I have always believed that hitting someone in a rage is not a good idea no matter who I'm angry with. I think this can cause great injury if someone is beaten or hit when I'm seeing RED. It's best a person leave Me alone for an undetermined amount of time, especially when My anger is directed at them. I'm not talking about "punishing" a slave, I'm talking about having maybe a shitty day then taking it out on him/her.

I have seen some posts on this and some other site where people use play as "getting out their aggressions" and I was wondering what others thought about it. I have heard slaves say "take your bad day out on me" which I know is a cry for play/attention, but do they REALLY want Me to do that?

I had one slave tell Me he wanted to be beaten so badly that he wouldn't be able to stand up after (a fantasy, I know, but he was SERIOUS). I told him to go home, that NO responsible person would do no matter how sadistic they were but alas, I have seen it with My own two eyes at clubs. I agree whole heartedly that SSC is compromised-hell, COMMON SENSE is compromised- and yet, it still exists where someone somewhere will take an implement and wail on some poor, unsuspecting sub just because something pissed them off that day.

If a person has such anger issues they feel they have to BEAT another human being, or HIT just for the sake of hitting, they should probably not be into BDSM. We know that even the lightest play can cause serious problems like internal bleeding, deep black and blue marks, kidney bruising, etc. Imagine what an all out assualt would bring. Anger Management is better.

What if a Dominant is having more than just ONE bad day-what if its a bad WEEK (been there, done that) or month or YEAR?

As a Dominant and Top, I have seen subs/bottoms go into subspace during some intense play-and its wonderful. However, I have to know when to STOP when they can't safe because their adrenaline or endorphins are running. That is MY responsibility as a safe player. I don't care if it disappoints them, I am in charge. And I have to keep a cool head. If I push those limits because I am  ANGRY, who is going to suffer the most? If I lose that perspective because some asshole driver cut Me off and I was pissed, what is going to happen?

Bottoms/submissives have to TRUST the tops to stop when either has too much, but if you are enraged and can't judge, a safeword could make you ANGRIER! Your sub might say "take it out on me" but he or she also knows that you will stop if it gets too much: what if you can't? 

When does it stop being loving play, and start becomming all out brutality just to satisfy a Dominant's need to vent?
Is BDSM an excuse sometimes, to hit another human being without repercussions?



chezzy71 -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 5:33:42 AM)

I saw a woman(submissive)get a beating from her Master(husband)that was so severe..well let's just say it wasn't pretty.I was upset by it.I don't care if you are a couple or not..there was no call for what she went through.I know she probably wished for it to happen,but when you are applying bandages to stop the bleeding..that is way too much for my liking.As a submissive myself,i know in my heart Mistress would never do that to me.In fact,she would consider it rude among other things that are obvious.Now a good spanking or flogging with aftercare...that's the ticket and if two cannot scene..a good hug will do.



DesFIP -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 5:45:20 AM)

There's a difference between being tense because of anger and stress and being in a blind rage. If he had the drive from hell and is in a bad mood as a result, and that spanks me hard thus getting out a lot of his stress plus channeling the rest into sex, that's a lot different from picking up a chair and breaking it over my head because I missed removing something red from the load of whites.

Not all anger is rage. Not all people are out of control when angry. Anger, like every other emotions, comes in different amounts.



MistressAinCT -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 5:46:51 AM)

Chezzy-I have seen that as well, and in a club until it was finally stopped. It was between a  butch lesbian and her very femme submissive.  When it was all over-thanks to the DM-the sub actually crawled on her hands and knees to kiss the feet of the Top, and huddled there the rest of the night as the Top socialized as if the sub wasn't even there.  I don't know if this was done out of anger, but it sure looked like it.

Someone said, "its what the sub wants" but I don't know-sometimes subs THINK its what they want until its happening, then they can't safe (especially in public!) because they might embarrass the Top (whom I guess, they love). 

I don't think anyone REALLY wants to be beaten to that extent no matter how masochistic or intense they want it.  Punishment is one thing, but all out brutality is quite another.



persephonee -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 5:46:57 AM)

i would not want anyone to scene me if they were frustrated or angry in any way. Once things get started, i have been known to beg for things that would not be so great...for anyone involved. i need someone to have some sort of sense, otherwise its a freeforall...

As for upsetting or intense scenes that are hard to watch...thats a matter of personal taste and experience. i have had to walk out on more than one scene and go get something to drink, either for myself or for the bottom i couldnt finish watching...if i find myself hiding behind my hands or otherwise showing outward signs of upset at the intensity of a scene, i remove myself from the area.



MistressAinCT -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 5:48:10 AM)

DesFip: what if it doesn't "channel" to sex?  Is it still all right?



Lynnxz -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 5:48:25 AM)

Interesting topic. While he would never hit me out of anger, a little stress relief is never bad, whether I give him a massage, or I hand him the cane.

We *have* been throwing around the idea of getting those huge foam hulk hands they make for kids, and smacking eachother around... hey they even have sound effects! :D



allthatjaz -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 6:18:05 AM)

As someone who has both promoted and worked as a DM in BDSM clubs I will say that I was asked on many occasions to intervene in a scene. Most of those scenes were totally consensual and I would say to whoever reported it, 'move away if its not your thing because its clearly there thing'. Only twice was I involved in breaking up a scene over anger and on both those occasions the female was at serious risk of getting badly hurt.
We have scened in clubs and stopped the whole dungeon because it could well look unconsensual and its going to be shocking but we always forewarn the DM's who so far have been very good in guarding us.

I go along with what DesFip when she says, 'not all anger is out of control' but I also believe that if you are not in control of your temper then you need to stay well clear of your sub when things go tits up.



CatdeMedici -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 6:27:36 AM)

There are 4 combinations I never mix:
 
Anger and My UM
Anger and My submissive
Anger and My martinis
Anger and My animals
 
 
bad juju.



feydeplume -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 6:44:17 AM)

I used to hit out of anger. Please keep in mind that i am a slave and no i have not hit my M (except once when i was flailing around scared to death of the needle the doctor was about to use on me). There is no excuse for hitting in anger for the sake of the anger. It has been a hard lesson that has taken me time to work through. It helped me to think of my anger as an intense emotion, just an intense emotion. There are lots of ways to deal with intense emotion, so you have way more options on how to express it.





MsFlutter -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 6:47:56 AM)

I wouldnt dare pick up a toy/instrument when I am angry. It takes a great deal to GET me that way but it would be irresponsible and thoughtless of me to do so while incensed. 
 
There's been only one person in my life in the last decade that had the ability to get me that angry and he was dumbfounded when I locked the toycase away until the veins in my forehead stopped standing out. It made a greater statement than my having caned him til he safeworded. He very richly deserved it and may even have been hoping that would be the end result but I forced myself to be bigger than the provocation.
 
Taking the edge off with a happy round of play is one thing. Beating someone senseless while you're blinded with anger is a level of stupidity I'm unable to comprehend. 



missturbation -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 7:13:59 AM)

quote:

I had one slave tell Me he wanted to be beaten so badly that he wouldn't be able to stand up after (a fantasy, I know, but he was SERIOUS). I told him to go home, that NO responsible person would do no matter how sadistic they were but alas, I have seen it with My own two eyes at clubs.


I'm going to call BS on this one. I personally would say that only the RESPONSIBLE should be playing to this level. Those who take the time to discuss, research and weigh up the possible consequences of such play.
 
How do you know that the scene you witnessed in the club was out of anger? Is it not possible that it was just a scene two people were enjoying very much done in love?
 
quote:

When does it stop being loving play, and start becomming all out brutality just to satisfy a Dominant's need to vent?


I would say when it becomes nonconsensual on the submissives part or Doms that is fine to vent on them.
 
quote:

Is BDSM an excuse sometimes, to hit another human being without repercussions?


Yes of course. Many an abuser will come into this lifestyle because they think it gives them free reign to abuse someone.



kiwisub12 -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 7:43:02 AM)

When i came into our relationship, my Sir promised to never punish me when he was angry - with impliaments or otherwise.
It gave me a feeling of safety with him that was absent with my marriage, and allowed me to surrender to his desires that much faster.

Very smart move on his part! [:D]



MasterMoon1978 -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 8:10:24 AM)

I think it all depends on the couple. If a slave is owned or collared then they should know their slave and not take their anger out on them just cuz they are having a bad day. Now if the slave has done something wrong to upset their owner then they should know they will be punished to their owner's pleasure



MsDDom -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 8:29:21 AM)

quote:

When does it stop being loving play, and start becomming all out brutality just to satisfy a Dominant's need to vent?
Is BDSM an excuse sometimes, to hit another human being without repercussions?


first...as u stated in ur post, i too know subs/slaves that want to be beaten...additionally, will ask if ur day was bad or if u r angry w/ someone and will offer themselves as a "punching bag" of sorts to allow u to get ur  frustrations out. so, hmmm...

to the quote above, it becomes brutality when u have the intent to harm, mame, or injury someone...when play has long left the "scene". yet keep in mind, not only would a Dom (who enjoys brutality) "get off", but equally a sub may be getting off as well.

bdsm is seen as permission to hit someone...in vanilla, u will get the cops called for assault...but in bdsm, it is play.



SassySarijane -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 8:31:43 AM)

~Fast Reply~

To the OP:

BDSM is not an excuse to abuse.

To the posters who have commented on scenes that have upset them, some to the point of needing bandages in places after:

Not everything is the way you perceive it to be. I have bottomed in scenes where I needed first aid for breaking the skin after. I have had people go to the group leader with concern for my well being and safety because of what they saw when I played. I play hard and intensely usually and to someone who does not know me, it can look very abusive.

It is not. It is what I want, even need, at times and I enjoy it, even when it can feel overwhelming. Those I play with know my limits, know what I can take, know what I like and know when to stop; and if I have a problem that requires play to pause or stop sooner, I indicate so to the top and they immediately check to make sure I'm ok and to help me.

If a person cannot handle seeing intense play or play outside their comfort zone then stepping away from sight and sound of it might be best for their own peace of mind.



LaTigresse -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 8:33:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

There are 4 combinations I never mix:
 
Anger and My UM
Anger and My submissive
Anger and My martinis
Anger and My animals
 
 
bad juju.


I think this says it very well for me! And the bad juju, made me smile too!



Andalusite -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 8:51:08 AM)

To me, there is a huge difference between angry (I could play with someone in this headspace) and enraged/out of control (I would not be comfortable around them at all, much less playing). It's funny - there seems to be much more "permission" for submissives and bottoms to feel anger, or other negative emotions, but tops and Dom/mes are expected to be happy-happy-joy-joy all the time.

I can sometimes get into a feral/agressive headspace when playfighting, especially if I am nominally the bottom, but I am still very much in control of my actions (unless they tickle me, in which case I'm likely to flail around wildly, kick the wall, fall off the bed, or just turn into a puddle on the floor).

As to being beaten until you can't stand up, I thought that was routine! It has nothing to do with hurting too much, it just means I'm floating too high to have muscle control yet!



bound4more -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 8:56:51 AM)

I'd like to add a slightly different spin to this. As a sub and having been a slave, I've experienced a deep depth of submission at times. During those times my desire to please and serve is so strong that I don't feel a sense of choice. I used to wonder how anyone could permit themself to be abused. But after experiencing the depth of surrender I have, I understood it. And here's where I personally do differentiate between the mindset of a slave and the mindset of a sub. But I won't get into all that. In my own experience, as a slave, I've experienced such an intense, deep level of surrender that I understood how it was possible to be abused, harmed and not have the ability to fight back, stop it or protect myself. The surrender is so intense.
 
Power exchange I think oftentimes is controlled power exchange in that the s relinquishes only as much control as they wish.  In my experience, there have been times when it goes beyond my control and all I think about, want and crave is to please, serve and be used in whatever manner my Owner wishes. It's been a rare experience, this depth of surrender, but in it I realized how slaves and subs could very easily permit themselves to be abused by one they feel devoted to. So I, for one, very much feel it's the D's responsibility to be in control of what goes on. Even in a relationship where the s is property and objectified, only an out of control D would do something damaging to their possession.
 
I think the request to take aggression out on the s is not necessarily a plea for attention or whatever on the s's part. It could be a genuine wish to be of utmost use to the D. But it comes with deep trust attached, that being used in that manner will not result in being harmed and made unserviceable.



feydeplume -> RE: Anger issues and play (2/10/2009 8:58:20 AM)

I think that "freedom to be angry" is because we are rarely holding the whip, cane, flogger, spatula of doom or what have you. And i like to think that bottom/sub/slaves don't pull out the emotional equivalent of said pain giver, but i know that is not true. It's a shame to think what we do and say to our top/D/M when we are in a bad mood, pissy about something, or just having catharsis after a good endorphin rush.

I guess that shame part is that we don't always own up to it or spontaneously apologize or try to heal the breach and often the T/D/M has to bring it up, call us on it, listen to us whine and make excuses, explain why we are in the wrong AGAIN, and Finally get the apology they deserve and all that goes with it.




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