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Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 10:48:17 AM   
Kirata


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Status: offline 		A troubling look at some potential health care implications of measures in the stimulus package...
 
Bloomberg News
 
K.
 
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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 11:00:48 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”...
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt. Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464). The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.

Oh, for christ's sake. Terrific...
Good find, Kirata.



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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 1:33:18 PM   
Cagey18


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.



This is just normal cost-benefit analysis, getting the best bang for your buck.  A rational approach, given finite healthcare dollars.

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 2:18:37 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		Thank you for posting this, Kirata.  That provision is very troubling and should definately be up for discussion on the floor of Congress.

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 2:18:49 PM   
thishereboi


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Status: offline 		Well in that case, I hope your one of the first to be told your too old for that procedure. Just accept that your old and going to die and let someone young use that money to get better. After all why should we waste money on someone who is going to die in the next couple years anyway.

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 2:23:49 PM   
Cagey18


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Well in that case, I hope your one of the first to be told your too old for that procedure. Just accept that your old and going to die and let someone young use that money to get better.

Again, given finite healthcare dollars, I'm totally okay with states allocating their funds that way.  Oregon does it now.

quote:

After all why should we waste money on someone who is going to die in the next couple years anyway.

You're catching on!  Good job!


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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 2:30:10 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Well in that case, I hope your one of the first to be told your too old for that procedure. Just accept that your old and going to die and let someone young use that money to get better.

Again, given finite healthcare dollars, I'm totally okay with states allocating their funds that way.  Oregon does it now.

quote:

After all why should we waste money on someone who is going to die in the next couple years anyway.

You're catching on!  Good job!




Catching on? To how stupid that kind of logic is? To how the libs cry and whine about the right not caring about people and then spouting bs crap like your post? Yea I am catching on.

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 2:36:50 PM   
Cagey18


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Catching on? To how stupid that kind of logic is? To how the libs cry and whine about the right not caring about people and then spouting bs crap like your post? Yea I am catching on.

As a licensed healthcare professional, at this point I'd prescribe herbal tea.  Perhaps chamomile.

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 2:37:57 PM   
Sanity


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No, no, no - according to the great Obama this bill must be rushed right through before anyone gets a chance to look at it, or everything could end up a "catastrophe"  


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Thank you for posting this, Kirata.  That provision is very troubling and should definately be up for discussion on the floor of Congress.


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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 2:39:57 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		What point are you trying to make?

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
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great day, I will tease you all the same."
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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 2:42:23 PM   
Sanity


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That Congress needs to slow down and read this thing before they vote on it, and to listen to their constituents, even against Obama's strict admonitions not to.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

What point are you trying to make?


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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 2:46:55 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		There is a difference between analyzing and listening and balking just for sake of being stubborn and contrary.

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 2:58:22 PM   
Sanity


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You're unaware that Obama wanted this bill rushed through before anyone got a chance to read it?

I was in agreement with you Ven... even if I was being sarcastic towards Obama. You really should try and heed your own words here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

There is a difference between analyzing and listening and balking just for sake of being stubborn and contrary.







< Message edited by Sanity -- 2/10/2009 3:00:32 PM >

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 3:02:42 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Catching on? To how stupid that kind of logic is? To how the libs cry and whine about the right not caring about people and then spouting bs crap like your post? Yea I am catching on.

As a licensed healthcare professional, at this point I'd prescribe herbal tea.  Perhaps chamomile.



You would prescribe something when you have no clue about the patient....do you do this often?

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 3:19:45 PM   
Cagey18


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Joined: 9/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Catching on? To how stupid that kind of logic is? To how the libs cry and whine about the right not caring about people and then spouting bs crap like your post? Yea I am catching on.

As a licensed healthcare professional, at this point I'd prescribe herbal tea.  Perhaps chamomile.



You would prescribe something when you have no clue about the patient....do you do this often?

Not at all...your clues are self-evident.  Including in this very post.

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 3:35:53 PM   
Vendaval


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Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		This stimulus plan has been in discussions since early Janauary and the talks have included both parties.  How does that equal not wanting Congress to read it?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 3:38:31 PM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Catching on? To how stupid that kind of logic is? To how the libs cry and whine about the right not caring about people and then spouting bs crap like your post? Yea I am catching on.

As a licensed healthcare professional, at this point I'd prescribe herbal tea.  Perhaps chamomile.



You would prescribe something when you have no clue about the patient....do you do this often?

Not at all...your clues are self-evident.  Including in this very post.



Well it's a good thing your so knowledgable about prescriptions. You can drink some tea when the doctor tells you your too old to treat. It might not help your condition, but a good cup of tea never hurt anyone. And when you die, you can be comforted by the thought that the money that could have gone to saving you, went to someone more deserving.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 3:45:40 PM   
ArizonaSunSwitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.



This is just normal cost-benefit analysis, getting the best bang for your buck.  A rational approach, given finite healthcare dollars.



Yeah just ducky, if an HMO does that they are evil greedy fucks, even though you can choose a different HMO next year. If a politician does it and you have no where to turn afterward it's "rational". Probably even more rational if the politician checks to make sure the person involved has been loyally donating to the DNC before approving a treatment.

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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 5:50:40 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

A troubling look at some potential health care implications of measures in the stimulus package...
 
Bloomberg News
 
K.
 


This is outrageous and not known by many of the fools in Washington that voted for this legislation.  Arland Spector didn't know this was in the Bill and "is going to have his staff check it out".  Makes even more valid the cry to "go slow" on this bad Bill...what the hell is the rush, and where the hell is the "transparency" this administration keep spouting about on the campaign trail.  How many more of these little beauties are in this legislation??  And yes, I meant "campaign trail".  Mr. Obama is still out there on the road again, town meeting...talking to kids that work in McDonalds, and getting accolades from guy like Chris Matthews who is still getting chills up and down his legs.  In the interim, who is watching the store, Mr. President?  Personally, I think he is afraid to be President and it's starting to hit him that Hillary was correct....he was not ready on "day one", or "day 21" !


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RE: Health measures in stimulus package - 2/10/2009 6:09:52 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

A troubling look at some potential health care implications of measures in the stimulus package...
 
Bloomberg News
 
K.
 


Well, before anyone goes off the deep end over this, read the article carefully.

First, it's a commentary, an opinion piece, not a news story.

Second, if you look carefully, you will find the writer does not supply any direct quotes from Daschle but takes quoted phrases of two or three words out of context and goes on to fill in the blanks supplying her own interpretation.

She also does not quote the relevant legislation directly, only her interpretation of it.

I'm not trying to discount what was said, and if it's true then it is something that should definitely not be made law.  I'm skeptical because something like this would be a pretty major news story that the talking heads would be jumping all over and this is the first I've heard of it.

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