Lies, Damned lies and statistics.

Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (Full Version)

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Coldwarrior57 -> Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 11:13:02 AM)
The economy is NOT in the tank. Look at the chart , you will see that the job loss was worse in 1974/1981. No bail out then. There should be none now. http://hotair.com/archives/2009/02/10/nancy-pelosis-incomplete-graphics/ They are trying to scare the hell out of every one to get to the tax monies.

domiguy -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 11:20:50 AM)
"Welcome to the world’s first full-service conservative Internet broadcast network!" Right off of the site. Yawn.

Owner59 -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 11:26:11 AM)
So what was your guys at bushco talking about? Was that to the "monies"? <snort>

cjan -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 11:28:43 AM)
Ummm, "job loss" and unemployment were worse in the 30's too...so what ? Are you nostalgic for those days ? Dude, I'm afraid that your and McCain's "the economy is sound " credibility are both circling the shitter drain.

hamster11 -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 11:29:42 AM)
i get a kick out of it all i have to tell you. its not like it hasnt been going on for years. the coprorations have just decided they can get our money now without even having to go under the table. its much easier to get it by simply asking than by having to follow rules or meet criteria for a subsidy.

slvemike4u -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 11:34:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cjan Ummm, "job loss" and unemployment were worse in the 30's too...so what ? Are you nostalgic for those days ? Dude, I'm afraid that your and McCain's "the economy is sound " credibility are both circling the shitter drain. CJ what credibility are you referring to? And where were these post's when Bush,Paulson and co. were running around Washington doing their Chicken Little impersonation.

Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 12:16:47 PM)
The business of america is business. There should have not ever been any bail outs. NONE, doesnt matter if its GM or any bank. they should have crashed n burned.

Vendaval -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 2:33:43 PM)
What are significant trade and tariff changes since 1974-1981? NAFTA, late 1992/early 1993 and GATT -->WTO in 1993/1995.

DomKen -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 2:40:54 PM)
Comparing unemployment rates back to the 70's is incredibly deceptive. The way the rate is calculated, primarily who is considered to be "not seeking employment," has been changed several times since the 1980's with the effect of removing several percentage points from the published unemployment rates.

Vendaval -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 2:45:35 PM)
You live in LA according to your profile. Have you been down to the EDD, Welfare Offices, food banks, thrift stores and homeless shelters lately? From the LA Times, January 24, 2009 - "On Friday, the state Employment Development Department reported that the jobless number jumped almost a full percentage point from 8.4% in November. It stood at 5.9% a year earlier. The rate for Los Angeles County, which like the state number is seasonally adjusted, was 9.9% for December, up from a revised 8.9% for November. Joblessness topped 10% in the Inland Empire, as it did in 31 of California's 58 counties. Alarming as they are, the state's numbers tell only half the story. They don't include the discouraged -- who have given up looking for a job -- the self-employed or people who work for cash, whose wages are not reported." http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-caljobs24-2009jan24,0,6998467.story

MrRodgers -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 2:58:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Coldwarrior57 The business of america is business. There should have not ever been any bail outs. NONE, doesnt matter if its GM or any bank. they should have crashed n burned. Wishful thinking now. The bankers run the show and the plutocracy is in full swing.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 3:09:21 PM)
It seems those charts are meaningless as we don't know where the bottom of the current chart line will end up. So, it is showing current numbers versus the complete dip of previous recessions, yet there is no indicator the current trend is reversing. Oh well, In any case, you can be against the bailouts, without qualifying it, I really don't care if it is better or worse, personally, or will be. The point is the bailouts are a completely unfair, inequitable distribution of wealth, in one form or another to one group to another. Ironic, that the first bailout, which Obama voted for, promoted by Bush, and McCain as well, ended up ripping off the taxpayer by 10's of billions to benefit the poor banks. I'm sure a similar thing will happen with the new round. Government essentially, is terrible at business, it always has been it always will be, and it should be, that is not its function! If you want change, ban government from conducting private/government business as in Fannie Freddie, etc... Riot when the former head of Goldman Sachs is put in charge of a trillion dollars, and decides who gets the money. Restructure the Federal Reserve, or Replace it with a more rational model. The way it is now the government has no limits, as soon as pushed at all, over any crisis. So, anything is possible, with such a reactive government. What's 10 trillion among friends right? I mean we have to save the vested power structure, don't we?

aravain -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 3:10:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Comparing unemployment rates back to the 70's is incredibly deceptive. The way the rate is calculated, primarily who is considered to be "not seeking employment," has been changed several times since the 1980's with the effect of removing several percentage points from the published unemployment rates. Not to mention that we simply have more citizens now... which means that any percentage of the population includes more (raw) people than that same percentage did in the past. Which means... y'know, that it is worse than it was before.

Termyn8or -> RE: Lies, Damned lies and statistics. (2/10/2009 4:52:49 PM)
fr What DK said is abolutely right. Before analysing statics one needs to know their basis'. We have several classes of people in this country. Maybe classes is not the right word but I'll explain. First of all there is a significant number of single Parents who are not seeking employment. They are generally not counted. Belive me if I could live well without working I would. There are people who just get odd jobs, work under the table and even make good money dealing drugs or whatever, they are not counted. I don't know about now, but in the past people on welfare were not counted among the unemployed. The numbers were never right really, because realistically at least a third of the people in this country are involuntarily unemployed, possibly more. Some have a slew of kids, others have disabilities, some are simply retired. Actually I retired at 35, but later found that I could not afford it, and had to go back to work. Now take the case of myself, the government does not even know that I exist anymore. My contract is such that the company pays all the taxes and whatever for me, I negotiated for a net pay amount. They deemed me worth it so I work. But statistically, I am not employed nor unemployed. Then there are still millions of housewives and househusbands, they have no job that is visible, and somehow had to be figured out to exclude such people from that particular statistic. In doing so they slewed the numbers. I can't even really make an accusation of deception in this matter, in certain categories people do not belong in that statistic. What's more there are millions of under the table jobs out there. Those people only exist to statatitioners if they recently worked in a normal job with taxes taken out etc. Some people never do. Some of them get along just fine, others struggle. Some collect cans, or mow grass, shovel snow, whaytever. Then there is DA's dog poop guy (whatever happened to DA anyway ?) once he did the math he claims this guy is making a good living picking up dog poop. If he's listed anywhere he is listed as unemployed. In a complex world such as this, statistics do not tell the whole story. It would be impossible even assuming the best of intentions. And I wouldn't assume the best of intentions either. So yes, we now have a situation in which we can't even "do the math". Stop having five or six damn kids, and maybe in about sixty years we can get a handle on this situation. Hell I didn't even mention students. There's another group, involuntarily unemployed ? I don't think so. The moral of the the story is that you just can't go by the numbers anymore. T

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