quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya

The problem with forgetting the past, is that if you do it repeats itself. I personally am not upset or angry with anyone about slavery.

However, I am irritated with the residual effects that is still has. For example, every 50 years, Congress has to vote on whether or not black people can still have the right to vote. Just a few years ago there was a revote. Why does there have to be a vote on whether we can keep our voting rights?

Why is it that education systems with a high demographic of black students are the ones that are failing? Why are most of the people that are incarcerated people of color?

Why is it that no one has an issue with european immigration to America, but if you are black or latino there is a huge problem.

Why is "ebony" a fetish?

Why is the earning ratio disportionate?

There are a lot of issues that are still inherent in this society, and I don't feel like they should be swept under the rug. I personally don't like being followed around when I enter Lord and Taylor. Would you? I hate being asked,
"Would you like to open a line of credit?", when I walk into a jewelry store. I have money, I pay cash for everything, but the assumption is that I don't have any money.

It is especially irritating when people tell me that I am "so articulate", like that is an anomaly.

What is unfair is that I am still being judged by the color of my skin, when it was my ancestors that built up the wealth of this country. It was my ancestors that raised generations of white children, it was my ancestors that were raped and forced to breed, and it was my ancestors that fought and died in wars; for the paltry rights I sometimes am allowed to enjoy.

~Ashe

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan


In 2007 the bicentennial abolition of the slave trade in the UK was marked by a huge inputting of resources available to our schools, exhibitions and conferences, commemoration coins and art costing millions (I'm not sure of the exact figure) to educate people on this legacy, one which I personally feel this needs to be a reminder lest we forget.

All the while people encounter prejudices in areas of education, the workplace and society in general, old wounds will never heal b/c human rights injustices continue.

I grew up in a multicultural household/background. Grandparents were Irish and Russian Jew. Both my parents are caucasian, but my father was absent largely throughout my childhood. Subsequently, my mother worked three jobs seven days a week. My father was racist. Whenever he visited his family, his visits would normally last a number of days, occasionally weeks, and conversation usually revolved around "Those fucking niggers", "If you ever fuck a nigger you're dead to me." Well, I felt so disconnected with him that I may just as well have been. So where does the multicultural aspect to my family enter apart from the Irish/Russian Jewish? Between visits, my father would be gone sometimes years. Effectively, we were raised by a black family that had arrived in the UK in the early 60s. The mama of the household became my 'Nana'. Her daughter, Patsy, and I were sisters. I grew up in bewilderment in South East London. At home, Nana was kind, but strict, made me eat my rice and beans (I still hate black eye peas but how I crave them and keep them always in the cupboard), we had treats and she'd sing to us, bathe our scraped knees and kiss away our tears, yet people spat at us when we'd board a bus to go shopping in Brockley or farther afield and I'd call her Nana as she held me, "Filthy nigger touching that poor girl." Some people wouldn't be demonstrative vocally, they'd just cast their eyes downward. I never understood.
 
I never understood why we couldn't go to certain places, there wasn't segretation in force legally, but socially it remained. I never understood why such a lovely person that loved and cared for me could have so many people dislike her. I just didn't understand.

My father would revisit and one occasion he even stayed for three months before going off again. When he left I was once again in the safety of Nana's care. Pasty and I had a fight over the vacuum cleaner one day and after she pulled my hair I blurted out, "Nigger!" to her. I knew it was something I should never have said, but I did that to put her down, make her feel less of a person for having hurt me. In that fleeting moment of childish spite I ruined our friendship.Nana stopped our fight, she never told me off for having spoken to Patsy like that, she dried both our tears and when I apologised she said, "It's okay, Janie, some things just are, listen to your nanny and leave them be now." Not exactly those words, it's too long ago for me to be able to recall verbatim, but words to that effect. The one word that did strike me was 'Nanny', not 'Nana'. By using that term she was letting me know she understood her place and that I had to understand mine. We were each other's 'white elephant'.  Today I understand.

So, you see, turn a blind eye, forget it and move on? Not a chance. It is deeply intertwined in the very fabric of our history and just how the hell do we move past something that we as a nation endorsed? Im sure the arguments against that will come in the form of, "Well, we've come a long way since then", and yes we have, but we cannot explain one history without the explanation of the other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     The institution of slavery is a hell of a lot older than the 16th century, Aneirin.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
It's very brave of you to share something which is so intensely personal.  Thanks and well done.  To be honest, I found the story engrossing but more as a piece of personal history than for the light it shed on racism in  the wider sense -- but that's possibly precisely because it was written from  childhood memories, which must have been very powerful to have stayed with you.  It's impossible to interrogate a childhood memory - they just are - so my only question is, what was your relationship to this woman?  Was she a neighbour that your family lodged you with or one engaged as a child minder? -- because they are obviously different arrangements.  But again, thanks for sharing your vivid memories.      

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
then the full facts have to be known, as without truth, how can justice be served.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

Just a fine technical point, but slavery predated the UK by a few millennia.  It also survives the outlawing of slavery by same UK by several centuries, in places like Somalia.  But again, just a fine technical point.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan


In 2007 the bicentennial abolition of the slave trade in the UK was marked by a huge inputting of resources available to our schools, exhibitions and conferences, commemoration coins and art costing millions (I'm not sure of the exact figure) to educate people on this legacy, one which I personally feel this needs to be a reminder lest we forget.

All the while people encounter prejudices in areas of education, the workplace and society in general, old wounds will never heal b/c human rights injustices continue.

I grew up in a multicultural household/background. Grandparents were Irish and Russian Jew. Both my parents are caucasian, but my father was absent largely throughout my childhood. Subsequently, my mother worked three jobs seven days a week. My father was racist. Whenever he visited his family, his visits would normally last a number of days, occasionally weeks, and conversation usually revolved around "Those fucking niggers", "If you ever fuck a nigger you're dead to me." Well, I felt so disconnected with him that I may just as well have been. So where does the multicultural aspect to my family enter apart from the Irish/Russian Jewish? Between visits, my father would be gone sometimes years. Effectively, we were raised by a black family that had arrived in the UK in the early 60s. The mama of the household became my 'Nana'. Her daughter, Patsy, and I were sisters. I grew up in bewilderment in South East London. At home, Nana was kind, but strict, made me eat my rice and beans (I still hate black eye peas but how I crave them and keep them always in the cupboard), we had treats and she'd sing to us, bathe our scraped knees and kiss away our tears, yet people spat at us when we'd board a bus to go shopping in Brockley or farther afield and I'd call her Nana as she held me, "Filthy nigger touching that poor girl." Some people wouldn't be demonstrative vocally, they'd just cast their eyes downward. I never understood.
 
I never understood why we couldn't go to certain places, there wasn't segretation in force legally, but socially it remained. I never understood why such a lovely person that loved and cared for me could have so many people dislike her. I just didn't understand.

My father would revisit and one occasion he even stayed for three months before going off again. When he left I was once again in the safety of Nana's care. Pasty and I had a fight over the vacuum cleaner one day and after she pulled my hair I blurted out, "Nigger!" to her. I knew it was something I should never have said, but I did that to put her down, make her feel less of a person for having hurt me. In that fleeting moment of childish spite I ruined our friendship.Nana stopped our fight, she never told me off for having spoken to Patsy like that, she dried both our tears and when I apologised she said, "It's okay, Janie, some things just are, listen to your nanny and leave them be now." Not exactly those words, it's too long ago for me to be able to recall verbatim, but words to that effect. The one word that did strike me was 'Nanny', not 'Nana'. By using that term she was letting me know she understood her place and that I had to understand mine. We were each other's 'white elephant'.  Today I understand.

So, you see, turn a blind eye, forget it and move on? Not a chance. It is deeply intertwined in the very fabric of our history and just how the hell do we move past something that we as a nation endorsed? Im sure the arguments against that will come in the form of, "Well, we've come a long way since then", and yes we have, but we cannot explain one history without the explanation of the other.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's very brave of you to share something which is so intensely personal.  Thanks and well done.  To be honest, I found the story engrossing but more as a piece of personal history than for the light it shed on racism in  the wider sense -- but that's possibly precisely because it was written from  childhood memories, which must have been very powerful to have stayed with you.  It's impossible to interrogate a childhood memory - they just are - so my only question is, what was your relationship to this woman?  Was she a neighbour that your family lodged you with or one engaged as a child minder? -- because they are obviously different arrangements.  But again, thanks for sharing your vivid memories.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             To the OP - what did you mean by the term "existing representatives" of the slave-owners, which you used in your post?  I recall we debated this in rather a different form here and I wondered what had changed to make you view slavery as an "abomination" today, when a few months ago you clearly thought quite differently?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Also, it would help if I knew whether you were - as I had assumed - talking about the triangle trade, the transatlantic slave trade and not ancient slave societies.  A few posters have made reference to forms of slavery which existed before the formulation of the idea of "race" (which of course was adapted, if not invented, to justify slavery) and I wondered whether you felt they had any relevance to your burning quest for the truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Existing representatives of the slave owners, I am sure you have already worked that one out, I tried to keep colour out of it, as it seems, mention black, or white on here, and a race row ensues. But in the case of ''existing representatives'', I am refferring to the current white population of the UK, as it was my experience that following the College lecture, the anger felt by one who was black I felt was accusing of us, the present people who are white, as if we are the same now as we ever were. Now, it could be that I am oversensitive, or this person was wrong in her implication, so I came here and asked the questions I asked to hopefully arrive at a better understanding based upon a larger base line.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
I do have a special interest in this, something that wears quite hard, for it is known my ancestors built some of the fucking ships and others crewed them, you try living with that, I feel guilty for my ancestors actions, one of the disadvantages of geneaology, skeletons in cupboards. But should I feel guilty for what my ancestors did in the past, is that a reflection on my present generation?

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

But surely if you see the white UK population of today as the "representatives" of the slave-traders, it's legitimate for your black colleague to do the same?  I have real problems with the idea of losing an argument to someone and then coming online to have your ego assuaged; you might want to re-think that.   You can't blame him because you feel you are on the wrong side of the argument.                                                                                                                                                     Does your university not have a library?  That might be the best place to start your enquiries, although it will take much more time and trouble than fannying about on collarme.  Why don't you give us the names of the texts your lecturer has given you in connection with this topic, I'm sure many posters on here will be very glad to suggest many more - but there's no point if you know them already.                                                                                                                                                                 Next, bear in mind that in Early Colonial America it was not unheard of for black farmers to own white indentured servants.  Exploitation was as colour-blind as a Gap advert.  But in time, the adoption of the notion of white supremacy changed this - this is the era in which today's concept of race was formalised.  Most European settlers were religious and ideological exiles, so they needed a quasi-religious rationale to justify engaging in their heinous crime.  A way to wipe away the guilt you still feel today.  This idea is known as "race".                                                                                                                                                                                         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu6blXHALrw                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm feeling incredibly generous today.  May your enquiries bring you both what you seek and what you need.