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RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 4:49:11 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Anything that would make me less I would consider abusive. Make me filled with self doubt, drive it into me that no one else would ever want me, that I deserved treatment that I did not consent to; all that for me would make me less capable, less strong, less able to protect myself.

If this sort of treatment is something you knew about, knew you could handle, and consented to prior to it being sprung on you, then it wouldn't be abusive for you.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 5:00:59 PM   
QuixoticErrant


Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming


I call bullshit, newbie. Welcome to CM, where there is no "one true way".

The above are your rules. Not mine. YKINMK. You can make all the rules you want, for your dynamic. Not for everyone else's.

I'll bet posts like yours are exactly why missturbation started her own thread.


Ahhh one of those rude, stoic, self important blow hards who wishes to comment on how "there is no one true way" how we are all special snowflakes, and other forms of PC weakness masquerading as bluster.   Let me guess, you are the one who would never intervene in a club if a submissive were in real physical peril.... NO, let them get their kidneys beaten.... they consented..., or let them get choked out.... their dom has the right to think blue is pretty on them...we can not judge....  You are the one who likes to boldly argue that there is no responsibility to do the right thing because being kinky means not being bound by any morals.... Do I have that correctly?

Congratulations.  This lifestyle is like any other calculated set of risks adults take.  We do not give cars to those who can not drive.  You should not hand a lash to those who do not have control.  And by the way, that does apply universally.

< Message edited by QuixoticErrant -- 2/12/2009 5:08:49 PM >

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 5:21:19 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming


I call bullshit, newbie. Welcome to CM, where there is no "one true way".

The above are your rules. Not mine. YKINMK. You can make all the rules you want, for your dynamic. Not for everyone else's.

I'll bet posts like yours are exactly why missturbation started her own thread.


Ahhh one of those rude, stoic, self important blow hards who wishes to comment on how "there is no one true way" how we are all special snowflakes, and other forms of PC weakness masquerading as bluster.   Let me guess, you are the one who would never intervene in a club if a submissive were in real physical peril.... NO, let them get their kidneys beaten.... they consented..., or let them get choked out.... their dom has the right to think blue is pretty on them...we can not judge....  You are the one who likes to boldly argue that there is no responsibility to do the right thing because being kinky means not being bound by any morals.... Do I have that correctly?

Congratulations.  This lifestyle is like any other calculated set of risks adults take.  We do not give cars to those who can not drive.  You should not hand a lash to those who do not have control.  And by the way, that does apply universally.


"Rude, stoic, self-important blow hard"?!

Wow. Just... Wow.

I liked you better when you were calling me "the worst bitch ever" over on that other thread just then. I'm thinking of using that in my sig line, LOL!

_____________________________

Download SLAVE LOVER. Explicit BDSM porn, with a plot! A love story, on a FemDom planet! http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Lover-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B0031ERBLI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261973416&sr=1

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 5:32:05 PM   
QuixoticErrant


Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming


I call bullshit, newbie. Welcome to CM, where there is no "one true way".

The above are your rules. Not mine. YKINMK. You can make all the rules you want, for your dynamic. Not for everyone else's.

I'll bet posts like yours are exactly why missturbation started her own thread.


Ahhh one of those rude, stoic, self important blow hards who wishes to comment on how "there is no one true way" how we are all special snowflakes, and other forms of PC weakness masquerading as bluster.   Let me guess, you are the one who would never intervene in a club if a submissive were in real physical peril.... NO, let them get their kidneys beaten.... they consented..., or let them get choked out.... their dom has the right to think blue is pretty on them...we can not judge....  You are the one who likes to boldly argue that there is no responsibility to do the right thing because being kinky means not being bound by any morals.... Do I have that correctly?

Congratulations.  This lifestyle is like any other calculated set of risks adults take.  We do not give cars to those who can not drive.  You should not hand a lash to those who do not have control.  And by the way, that does apply universally.


"Rude, stoic, self-important blow hard"?!

Wow. Just... Wow.

I liked you better when you were calling me "the worst bitch ever" over on that other thread just then. I'm thinking of using that in my sig line, LOL!


Actually, I said, "I know the image is worst bitch ever..."  which is to say, I believed you were projecting an image.

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 5:43:45 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming


I call bullshit, newbie. Welcome to CM, where there is no "one true way".

The above are your rules. Not mine. YKINMK. You can make all the rules you want, for your dynamic. Not for everyone else's.

I'll bet posts like yours are exactly why missturbation started her own thread.


Ahhh one of those rude, stoic, self important blow hards who wishes to comment on how "there is no one true way" how we are all special snowflakes, and other forms of PC weakness masquerading as bluster.   Let me guess, you are the one who would never intervene in a club if a submissive were in real physical peril.... NO, let them get their kidneys beaten.... they consented..., or let them get choked out.... their dom has the right to think blue is pretty on them...we can not judge....  You are the one who likes to boldly argue that there is no responsibility to do the right thing because being kinky means not being bound by any morals.... Do I have that correctly?

Congratulations.  This lifestyle is like any other calculated set of risks adults take.  We do not give cars to those who can not drive.  You should not hand a lash to those who do not have control.  And by the way, that does apply universally.


"Rude, stoic, self-important blow hard"?!

Wow. Just... Wow.

I liked you better when you were calling me "the worst bitch ever" over on that other thread just then. I'm thinking of using that in my sig line, LOL!


Actually, I said, "I know the image is worst bitch ever..."  which is to say, I believed you were projecting an image.



Oh. I'm not the worst bitch ever? Rats.

Then can I at least be a "special snowflake"?  LOL...  ;o)

_____________________________

Download SLAVE LOVER. Explicit BDSM porn, with a plot! A love story, on a FemDom planet! http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Lover-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B0031ERBLI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261973416&sr=1

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 5:57:24 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming


I call bullshit, newbie. Welcome to CM, where there is no "one true way".

The above are your rules. Not mine. YKINMK. You can make all the rules you want, for your dynamic. Not for everyone else's.

I'll bet posts like yours are exactly why missturbation started her own thread.


Ahhh one of those rude, stoic, self important blow hards who wishes to comment on how "there is no one true way" how we are all special snowflakes, and other forms of PC weakness masquerading as bluster.   Let me guess, you are the one who would never intervene in a club if a submissive were in real physical peril.... NO, let them get their kidneys beaten.... they consented..., or let them get choked out.... their dom has the right to think blue is pretty on them...we can not judge....  You are the one who likes to boldly argue that there is no responsibility to do the right thing because being kinky means not being bound by any morals.... Do I have that correctly?

Congratulations.  This lifestyle is like any other calculated set of risks adults take.  We do not give cars to those who can not drive.  You should not hand a lash to those who do not have control.  And by the way, that does apply universally.


...

All due respect and obligatory emoticon inserted here....but please refrain from "intervening" in any scene im participating in. If i were choked out by...whats the term again??...oh, yes, my Dominant and woke up to find that someone wandered over and interrupted him from monitoring me in order to lecture him on the dangers of breath play....you better believe you would all have to peel me off the ceiling. SSC, RACK...whatever cutesy little acronym you want to apply to it, unless youre the DM, i would prefer you keep your opinions to yourself...and your interventions.

Whose morals, exactly are you ascribing to others? i wanna be on that committee for shore!!!

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 6:03:21 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

It isn't the act or the emotion behind but the ultimate motive.  Are you trying to control someone by the use of fear. 


This would be the crux of it for me.  I can't say I've ever been in a ds relationship where I was hit out of anger, but if I were it would scare the shit out of me to see someone enraged or out of control of themselves to a point where they were gonna hit me until their frustration was relieved.  Not sure what I would do first, piss myself or run.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 6:14:58 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		I grew up being hit out of anger and I don't care to repeat it.  I do consider it abuse. 
If it works for you and yours, rock on, carefully. 
Best wishes, 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 6:27:00 PM   
QuixoticErrant


Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming


I call bullshit, newbie. Welcome to CM, where there is no "one true way".

The above are your rules. Not mine. YKINMK. You can make all the rules you want, for your dynamic. Not for everyone else's.

I'll bet posts like yours are exactly why missturbation started her own thread.


Ahhh one of those rude, stoic, self important blow hards who wishes to comment on how "there is no one true way" how we are all special snowflakes, and other forms of PC weakness masquerading as bluster.   Let me guess, you are the one who would never intervene in a club if a submissive were in real physical peril.... NO, let them get their kidneys beaten.... they consented..., or let them get choked out.... their dom has the right to think blue is pretty on them...we can not judge....  You are the one who likes to boldly argue that there is no responsibility to do the right thing because being kinky means not being bound by any morals.... Do I have that correctly?

Congratulations.  This lifestyle is like any other calculated set of risks adults take.  We do not give cars to those who can not drive.  You should not hand a lash to those who do not have control.  And by the way, that does apply universally.


...

All due respect and obligatory emoticon inserted here....but please refrain from "intervening" in any scene im participating in. If i were choked out by...whats the term again??...oh, yes, my Dominant and woke up to find that someone wandered over and interrupted him from monitoring me in order to lecture him on the dangers of breath play....you better believe you would all have to peel me off the ceiling. SSC, RACK...whatever cutesy little acronym you want to apply to it, unless youre the DM, i would prefer you keep your opinions to yourself...and your interventions.

Whose morals, exactly are you ascribing to others? i wanna be on that committee for shore!!!


Fine, you would be alive to be pissed at me.  He or She would not be in prison to be pissed at me and I would not be a potential accessory under the law, but rather free to call you both stupid. You will note that I said, real peril.  If there is real peril, there is not time to be indecisive or twitter about courtesy. 

The morals that I am ascribing to others are the basic sorts of things that maintain a civilized society, like do unto others... don't tolerate the abuse of others... Don't let people get choked to death in front of you etc...   Congratulations, this is what is actually expected of you as a civilized person.  Sorry if the notion of social duty offends you.  No one said life was fair.

Now I am well aware about the fine line between consensual play and abuse.  I am not trying to open a giant can of worms by exploring exactly where that boundary is.  It is much like attempts to define pornography.  However, much like pornography, normal and sane people know it when they see it, and, they have a duty to act.

< Message edited by QuixoticErrant -- 2/12/2009 6:28:32 PM >

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 6:31:11 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

The 'anger issues and play' thread has had me thinking. Rather than derail or hijack that thread in any way, i'm starting this one.
 
It seems that most / all agree that to hit out of anger is abuse. I however am going to disagree!! I've been hit out of anger before now and i'm sure i will be again by people i serve. I've been slapped / punched for answering back, not doing something quick enough, failing a task etc etc etc. I've been caned and single tailed for similar offences too, there and then whilst my Sir / Master has still been angry / annoyed.
 
Now by the definition of the other thread that is out and out abuse. To me it was a part of the relationship that i happily consented to.
 
How about non-physical angry reactions? Are they abuse? For example sitting your sub in a corner whilst angry, locking her in a cage whilst angry, sending her away whilst angry, ignoring her whilst angry etc etc. For some non-physical can be just as damaging as the physical.
 
Again personally i would say that for me this is not abuse either as again it is something i consented to.  

For those though who are in the camp of hitting out of anger being abuse, surely they must be in the same camp for non-physical angry reactions?
 
Is hitting out of anger automatically abuse, consent or not?
 
Any other thoughts?
 


SimplyMichael was right as to looking beyond the action and to the motive...and if the motive is to control by intimidation, then that, i could agree, is unhealthy....for me. i am accountable for my own choices in life. If i choose to participate in an unhealthy relationship, then thats on me...honestly, i think i can determine for myself what is healthy and not...and whether i want to be involved in whatever situation im involved with....

While i can say, there but for the grace of....in the circumstance of abuse, its not for a lack of opportunity...i have had plenty of unhealthy or abusive potential partners...potential being the operative word there. If i were involved in something i couldnt extricate myself from, i would have to take it upon myself to ask for help from the outside...operative phrase being...take it upon myself....

What i bristle at is the whole judgemental, overbearing, holier-than-thou Knight in Shining Armor characteristic....i bristle, not because i wouldnt like to be swooped in on and swept away from all this drudgery...cuz i would! Rather, the assumption that is made by said Knight that i am incapable of thinking for myself and that i somehow dont have the right to make my own decisions, good or bad...they are my decisions to make.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 6:34:37 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		Please define the terms, "normal" and "sane" ...and link me to where i apply to be a "decider" {{Bushism}}

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 6:40:26 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		QuixoticErrant,

I believe the issue is that you have decided you know what is best for someone beyond what they themselves deem to be best for them.

This is one of the biggest reasons why I don't Scene at play parties. The Guy with the Black Arm Band as a rule doesn't know me or my play and should he or anyone for that matter intervien "On My Behalf" they in most cases are causing more danger to the situation than they know.

I know how my slave will react and my slave knows how I will react what neither of us know is how the stranger getting involved will react.

However you will never be forced to get involved in my particular world because I don't happen to practice SSC or RACK

I Practice KWYADACTGDB which although not as witty and pretty and easy to Chant as the other two I find it to be more realistic.

It stands for Know What You Are Doing And Close The God Damned Blinds. My world should never need saving from the likes of Captain Save-a-Hoe nor will it know the Tryany of Sinister Sir Know-better-than-you.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 6:44:48 PM   
Chrisdeb7478


Posts: 23
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline 		I personally would prefer Daddy to beat my ass than ignore me when He is mad at me. i trust Him to know when He has hit His limit as He is afraid of hurting me so that is not really an issue. Have i sometimes egged on to the the contact YES. do i get freaked outsides Yes. Interupting a play session well depends on if things got out of control.. asking the other person may ground them if things are getting severe. Last public play session we had someone got nervous that since i had been quiet through most of the session that things was going wrong when i got loud. things happen not all of them bad . Abuse is bad but consent is so wonderful

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 6:46:44 PM   
QuixoticErrant


Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

Please define the terms, "normal" and "sane" ...and link me to where i apply to be a "decider" {{Bushism}}


Well, if you really want to get philosophical, let us first assume that human beings have free will.  If they do not, the entire conversation is pointless anyway.

However, I believe they do and the fact that you used the term "consenting adult" earlier means you believe that as well.  One without free will can not consent to anything. 

Since you have free will - Congratulations!  You already are a "decider."

Now that is covered, we will cover the notion of responsibility for choices.

Sane people are capable of perceiving the consequences of their actions in a rational and logical manner.  Insane people can not do such reasoning.  Many sane people refuse to look at consequences because that can put a serious bummer on a good time and they may choose to act against their best interests, but, they were indeed capable of reasoning out that such consequences might follow.

Normal in this context means that one has the capacity to perceive things according to some bulk average of the population.  And no, I am not getting into a values discussion, I am going for something much more basic.  I mean that anyone above the age of puberty, with a normally functioning body can tell Hustler is a porno mag.   It does not matter if they like Hustler - they still know it is porn.  It does not matter if they hate Hustler, they still know it is porn.  It does not matter if they think that porn is good or that it is evil, they still know that Hustler is porn.

Does this help?

< Message edited by QuixoticErrant -- 2/12/2009 7:07:21 PM >

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 6:49:07 PM   
QuixoticErrant


Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

QuixoticErrant,

I believe the issue is that you have decided you know what is best for someone beyond what they themselves deem to be best for them.

This is one of the biggest reasons why I don't Scene at play parties. The Guy with the Black Arm Band as a rule doesn't know me or my play and should he or anyone for that matter intervien "On My Behalf" they in most cases are causing more danger to the situation than they know.

I know how my slave will react and my slave knows how I will react what neither of us know is how the stranger getting involved will react.

However you will never be forced to get involved in my particular world because I don't happen to practice SSC or RACK

I Practice KWYADACTGDB which although not as witty and pretty and easy to Chant as the other two I find it to be more realistic.

It stands for Know What You Are Doing And Close The God Damned Blinds. My world should never need saving from the likes of Captain Save-a-Hoe nor will it know the Tryany of Sinister Sir Know-better-than-you.

Steel


Steel be fair.  If you saw a guy who was into knife play, seriously fuck up, seriously cut someone, right, the artery is now spurting, he wants to cut more... do you do nothing or not?

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 7:09:13 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

Steel be fair.  If you saw a guy who was into knife play, seriously fuck up, seriously cut someone, right, the artery is now spurting, he wants to cut more... do you do nothing or not?



My Honest Answer? I would have my Trusty First Aid Kit and offer to help close the wound. I have been in situations were carrying my own sucher kit came in handy it was because the slave cut her hand cutting Strawberries and it was very deep she didn't have insurance so I sewed her up. It was UGLY and left a Nasty Scar but it didn't cost her or her Master a dime, they just cooked me dinner the following night.

Now you be honest, how many people are going to fuck up like that in Public and not want to cover thier Ass?

My Point here is that the situations we are all discussing are things I don't think many of us have actually WITNESSED before I know may people who CLAIM to have witnessed these kinds of horrible things but you know I know a few people who claim to have met Elvis at a Disco. The fact of the matter is that although I understand what you are saying and your desire if Noble it is usually unnecessary and there for a mute point in discussion.

As for the Abuse of a slave, I have learned to keep my nose out of other people business. I got involved one to many times and found out that those we often think need saving don't offten want to be saved nor do they think they need any saying.

Steel

< Message edited by SteelofUtah -- 2/12/2009 7:11:41 PM >

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 7:17:43 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		see post #30.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 8:31:26 PM   
QuixoticErrant


Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

Steel be fair.  If you saw a guy who was into knife play, seriously fuck up, seriously cut someone, right, the artery is now spurting, he wants to cut more... do you do nothing or not?



My Honest Answer? I would have my Trusty First Aid Kit and offer to help close the wound. I have been in situations were carrying my own sucher kit came in handy it was because the slave cut her hand cutting Strawberries and it was very deep she didn't have insurance so I sewed her up. It was UGLY and left a Nasty Scar but it didn't cost her or her Master a dime, they just cooked me dinner the following night.

Now you be honest, how many people are going to fuck up like that in Public and not want to cover thier Ass?

My Point here is that the situations we are all discussing are things I don't think many of us have actually WITNESSED before I know may people who CLAIM to have witnessed these kinds of horrible things but you know I know a few people who claim to have met Elvis at a Disco. The fact of the matter is that although I understand what you are saying and your desire if Noble it is usually unnecessary and there for a mute point in discussion.

As for the Abuse of a slave, I have learned to keep my nose out of other people business. I got involved one to many times and found out that those we often think need saving don't offten want to be saved nor do they think they need any saying.

Steel



Respectfully, that is not a good idea.  Unless you are an MD or combat medic, you have no business stitching an artery. It's gross irresponsibility and very likely that you would make matters worse medically.  Welcome to manslaughter if you really botch up. Of less importance, if you try that, you have just opened yourself for a world of legal hurt. 

What you do is stop Mr. Ripper from getting his jollies, by force if necessary, apply pressure to the wound and call 911.

If you are afraid that you can not overcome Mr. Ripper, and no one else there is willing to help you, then you call 911 immediately after getting the hell out of there.  Time would be of the essence in saving the girl's life.

Now admittedly, I made a case that was extreme and unlikely to be seen.  However, you see my point that if such a case arose, you would need to do something.  Now that is established, we can start the real debate of where the line is that you need to do something.  Like I said, my standard here is clear peril.  What clear peril means is subjective, but it does not include anything I have ever seen in a club or a party yet.  Truly, I can not realistically see encountering a case as bad as the one I hypothesized.  However, if I were to see something that flipped my sense of "holy shit" sufficiently, I would do something.  If I err on the side of caution and I am wrong, then ok, some pissed off people complain that ruined their scene.  Yeah that sucks and they will hate me.  That is much less bad then if I was right and did nothing.

A more realistic case, he has no real idea what he is doing, but he is caning her spine or kidneys again and again after she has passed out...  Are you really going to just watch that?  Would you hope that the DM comes along, and therefore you have no responsibility?  Suppose our wannabe Dom thinks he knows what he is doing with a bull whip but doesn't...  Same questions apply.



< Message edited by QuixoticErrant -- 2/12/2009 8:53:43 PM >

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 8:49:26 PM   
QuixoticErrant


Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

see post #30.


See my reply to Steel.  Let me ask you then.  Suppose that you see something clearly of the not good at all variety where someone is either getting or very likely to get seriously hurt.  Let's not play dumb.  Come up with a suitable mental image of clearly not good at all for yourself.  OK, there is someone in real trouble in front of you.  Is that picture in your mind?  What do you do?

< Message edited by QuixoticErrant -- 2/12/2009 8:56:47 PM >

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Anger, physical, non-physical, consent, abuse - 2/12/2009 8:55:41 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

If you are afraid that you can not overcome Mr. Ripper

[ot] I'll assume you haven't had the pleasure of meeting Steel, QE [/ot]


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(in reply to QuixoticErrant)
Profile   Post #: 40
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