The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (Full Version)

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LunaVenus -> The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 5:12:44 AM)

I have 2 questions
1) What are some of the most VILE and REPUGNANT things done in bdsm that you could never see yourself doing?
2) I have a real difficulty understanding the psychology of a sadist or a masochist. Please try to explain your view of what is at the root of such desires to torture or be tortured and view it as love.


To answer my own question.... number one at least, I find most acts in BDSM utterly vile and repugnant. If not they are totally nonsensical at best. Eating shit, drinking urination, inserting pins and needles through body parts just to see what happens, desiring welts on the body from whipping or desiring to give them for that matter, torture in any aspect, cries of agony. As a natural dominant who is not a sadist, these are things I personally view as undesireable.  I can NOT answer question number 2. I can not get my mind around why anyone would equate torture with love. It is certainly not necessary for dominance even.

I would love to hear from others. I may check back eventually.



chezzy71 -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 6:13:59 AM)

I believe in my heart that the best dominants both male or female are the ones who don't have to resort to vile or repugnant things to do to another.It could be only a glance from yourMistress/Master,a certain way they smile,or something as simple as a fingertip lightly tracing your cheek(face) or shoulder and of course the smallest of whispers into one's ear.They know that is all they need to bring you to submit freely and give of yourself.It is one of the reasons why i love this lifestyle.



LadyPact -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 6:28:01 AM)

Answer #1:  Only those things which are on My hard limit list.  Most of which I can't even describe here because they violate TOS.  Most other things, even if I haven't done them to date, are always possibilities.  A lot of the things I could never foresee Myself doing when I first started out, I now thoroughly enjoy.  How in the world would I know which new directions I might grow in the upcoming years?

Answer #2:  I couldn't tell you where the desires come from.  It just happens to be the way I'm wired.  My sub happens to be a masochist.  The bottom line of that is that he enjoys pain being inflicted on him.  For him, it is a way for Me to show him that I love him because it is something he wants, just like other people want other displays of affection.  Kissing him with a dragon tail gives him the warm fuzzies that some people would get from a kiss on the cheek.  I don't know enough about bio-chemistry or genetics to say why we are different from those who don't enjoy these kinds of activities.  We just do.



MissMorrigan -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 7:05:41 AM)


Explaining to you my pathology of why I sate my sexual desires by hurting someone sadistically isn't ever going to answer your questions. You have created a viewpoint of how D/s should be for everyone and that does not include the 'vile and repugnant' who don't fit your cosy image of D/s loveliness.

You were right about one thing though, LunaVenus, one doesn't have to be a dominant or submissive to enjoy sadomasochistic exchanges.



MistressAinCT -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 7:26:41 AM)

I think that most sadists do what they do-the things you call vile and repugnant and you have your opinions-for the reaction they get out of the subject.  It turns them on whether sexual or not.  I for one, love the reaction of a slave after a good spanking or heavy flogging for example.  I also love MY reaction.

For the submissve/slave/subject/bottom its about sensation, release, endorphic high and some people require a higher degree of stimulation than others, hence the "vile and repugnant" issue. And even a willingness to please the Dominant, let's not forget that.  I agree that eating bodily fluids is not only gross but dangerous-IMHO-I embrace the other physical tortures if you will, that get Me going. 

Everyone has different limits and its up to the individuals involved to set and respect those limits.  I find it hard to do anything "soft" or "easy" while someone else might find something hard and intense difficult.

You probably are aware that welts, scars, bruises and the like are looked upon as many as prizes and rewards they cherish as a sign of love from their Dominant.  Some look upon it as "I made it!" a sign of pride and accomplishment, and some just want to give their Dominant something nice to look at. 

I used to feel the way you do, and I didn't nor could I understand it.  But after so many years in the life watching people play at clubs and parties and of course, being a willing participant, I began to understand and embrace what physical BDSM is all about.  When its good, its OH SO HOT...
 
Again, that is MHO.



PeonForHer -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 7:28:13 AM)

Fast Reply: I don't know if this makes an impact on the discussion, but LunaVenus's profile seems to have vanished.



thishereboi -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 8:23:01 AM)

Well I don't know if I would say it is vile or repugnant, but one of the things I really hate are posters who start threads with no other purpose than to put other people and their kinks down. If you find most BDSM acts "utterly vile and repugnant" maybe your on the wrong forum.



thetammyjo -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 8:25:55 AM)

I separate people who call themselves sadists and masochists from those who could/would be diagnosed by a mental health care professional in such a category. They are quite different in motivation and desires and it is a sad fact that we still use these terms to refer to things that need to be mutual consented upon to be BDSM in my very strong opinion.

Thus is our vocabulary at this time.



Andalusite -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 9:15:18 AM)

When I am sadistic, it is because I enjoy their reactions. I don't consider it torture as long as they are enjoying it, on some level, and have consented to it. I like it when they cry, yelp, moan. I like watching their skin change colour and leaving marks where I have been. I like the little jumps and writhing. It's yummy.

On the bottom side, I usually only enjoy what I personally consider "good pain," pain that doesn't overwhelm the endorphin rush at the time, that I get something out of, even if not arousal. I enjoy getting to see welts and bruises as they fade over the course of a week or so, they're pretty reminders of a lot of fun. In my last relationship, I explored submission more, taking pain that I didn't experience as intrinsically good. It didn't usually leave marks. I got some good out of it, I enjoyed his reactions, feeling I was pleasing him by taking it, feeling tough, but the sensations themselves weren't inherently enjoyable.



velvetears -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 9:24:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chezzy71

I believe in my heart that the best dominants both male or female are the ones who don't have to resort to vile or repugnant things to do to another.


Well as a masochist who adores pain, if my dominant did not "resort" to the activities that caused me pain he wouldn't be the best dominant for me.  Just  because you can't understand the beauty and rapture of SM does not mean it's repugnant or vile.  Open up the mind a little and stop seeing everything from your sole persepctive of what YOU like and enjoy. 



Lynnxz -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 9:46:44 AM)

Well this is certainly a snotty little question.

If you wanted to know the answer, you'd just ask, not gush on about how repugnant things are, and then mention you MIGHT... just MIGHT come back if you don't have anything better to do.





LaTigresse -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 10:40:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaVenus

I have 2 questions
1) What are some of the most VILE and REPUGNANT things done in bdsm that you could never see yourself doing?
2) I have a real difficulty understanding the psychology of a sadist or a masochist. Please try to explain your view of what is at the root of such desires to torture or be tortured and view it as love.


To answer my own question.... number one at least, I find most acts in BDSM utterly vile and repugnant. If not they are totally nonsensical at best. Eating shit, drinking urination, inserting pins and needles through body parts just to see what happens, desiring welts on the body from whipping or desiring to give them for that matter, torture in any aspect, cries of agony. As a natural dominant who is not a sadist, these are things I personally view as undesireable.  I can NOT answer question number 2. I can not get my mind around why anyone would equate torture with love. It is certainly not necessary for dominance even.

I would love to hear from others. I may check back eventually.


I find your tone VILE and REPUGNANT.

There are a lot of things other people do, that I cannot imagine myself doing. Some of them may be vile and repugnant to ME. However, I am not going to make a blanket statement saying so. I think turnips are vile and repugnant, but I am fully aware some people love them (not sure what sick twisted individual that may beeee.........but..)

I love beets but hate turnips, should I start a thread discussing how vile and repugnant turnips are but how cool I am for loving beets? Taking the tone that anyone that likes turnips or hates beets is wrong?

In addition, a few of the things you listed as vile and repugnant, I quite enjoy. Does that also make me vile and repugnant? Or, does it just make me a woman with different tastes and thrills than you?



marie2 -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 10:54:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaVenus

I have 2 questions
1) What are some of the most VILE and REPUGNANT things done in bdsm that you could never see yourself doing?


There aren't too many that I can say I'm sure I'd never do. But there are a couple.  And what's vile to me isn't vile to someone else.  In other words, what makes someone else feel humiliated for example, might gross me out, but I can understand a desire to be humiliated, and if doing xyz gets it done for someone, and it takes abc to get it done for me, it's all really the same thing in a fundamental sense, regardless of the specific act.


quote:

2) I have a real difficulty understanding the psychology of a sadist or a masochist. Please try to explain your view of what is at the root of such desires to torture or be tortured and view it as love.


I don't think there's one answer that fits all people.  For me, it's about a particular intimacy that is felt when I engage in sadomasochistic actions.  It's something that I feel with the person who I'm engaging with, and it's something that I can't really experience in any other way.  Part of it is the vulnerability and the loss of control and the level of trust it takes to put that in someone else's hands.  And part of it is enjoying all those different and sometimes conflicting emotions that are occuring.   


quote:

To answer my own question.... number one at least, I find most acts in BDSM utterly vile and repugnant. If not they are totally nonsensical at best. Eating shit, drinking urination, inserting pins and needles through body parts just to see what happens, desiring welts on the body from whipping or desiring to give them for that matter, torture in any aspect, cries of agony.


Again, it's not so much about the specific acts, I think.  It's more about the feelings that those acts evoke.  Everyone has different associations with different acts.  It's not about getting pissed or shit on (or whatever) in and of itself.  It's not like "ooh yeah, I love getting peed on for the sake of getting peed on", it's more like "I love how it reduces me", "I love how it makes me feel marked as his" "I love how it makes me feel small" "I love how it pleases him to do that to me" etc etc.  It's what the act represents.

quote:

 As a natural dominant who is not a sadist, these are things I personally view as undesireable.  I can NOT answer question number 2. I can not get my mind around why anyone would equate torture with love. It is certainly not necessary for dominance even.


Love can be interpreted and expressed in so many various ways.  If you can wrap around that, then you can wrap around how someone can equate "torture with love".   Also, not everyone experiences, looks for, or expects love in their relationships. 

Anyway, I'm sure I don't speak for everyone, but this is my take on it, in very short and general terms.  




ShaktiSama -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 11:12:45 AM)

Yikes. I'll just ditto that the tone of the question is at least as much of a turn-off as most of the things that could make it onto any potential list of my Hard Limits.

I don't find anything done in BDSM any more VILE AND REPUGNANT than a food I don't like or a type of music or a television show I find really stupid or offensive. If something fits into the definition of BDSM, it involves mutually consenting partners and thereafter becomes a matter of taste--no matter how bizarre or incomprehensible I might find someone else's tastes.

As for understanding the mind of the sadist or the masochist--the key to the understanding is to simply watch someone sit down and eat, slowly and with great relish, a whole plate full of food that you absolutely hate. You may not be able to empathize with their pleasure in the specific details of the meal, but you should be at least able to intellectually understand that they are getting to same pleasure from hot peppers and sauerkraut that you would get from ice cream.

As for the "mind" of the sadist and the masochist, I can't speak for all of us by any means. The masochists *I* enjoy playing with ENJOY the pain--it arouses them and it feels GOOD, and in fact feels fantastic, in some cases better than virtually anything else you can do to their bodies. They have a wonderful endocrine system which allows them to turn extreme sensations like the impact of a flogger or the penetration of a needle into a rush of endorphins--literally it has been compared to the injection of heroin, a drug rush that is all-natural but still incredibly addictive and powerful and pleasurable.

If the person I am playing with can't perform this transformation--if they are not able to "process" the pain I am inflicting, whether because they are emotionally blocked or physically unwell--I stop immediately. Pain which is just pain does not interest me in the slightest, and is, in fact, not to my tastes--I might even call it "vile and repugnant", in the same vein that I really don't like okra and "Married with Children".

The analogous insight into my sadistic mindset: I do not have any fantasies about being a genuine torturer in a prison camp or what-not, with unconsenting victims being harmed by my actions. My sadistic fantasies always revolve around my masochistic partner and the identities and scenarios I can explore with him or her. I would not enjoy being sadistic with a non-masochist, or "training" my non-masochistic submissive to take pain. I have no need need to lash out regardless of whether it is wanted or needed by my partner.

*shrug* I mention this because I know this is different from how some other dominants and sadists feel, and I fully recognize that some players might regard me as less "Twue" of a sadist because of it. I have not ever in my life raised my hand against a sexual partner or used an implement before I knew it was desired. I have never in my life "persuaded", "converted", or "surprised" a partner with some sadistic game. Why? I suppose because my sense of the Vile and Repugnant revolves around lack of consent and abuse of power, rather than the superficial details of sensation play or the exchange of power.

Real rape, torture etc in real life are vile and repugnant things to me, and I feel the need to do something about them as a responsible citizen of the world. But BDSM, at the end of the day, is just a way of playing and loving others, and if there is some game I don't like I just don't participate. In much the same way I pass on the okra and change the channel to avoid "reality tv".




SassySarijane -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 11:17:10 AM)

~Fast Reply~

So is it the acts you find VILE and REPUGNANT and nonsensical or does that extend to those that enjoy the acts you find VILE and REPUGNANT and nonsensical?

What if someone finds your way of doing things VILE and REPUGNANT and nonsensical?

Some things you listed are things I very much enjoy. There is nothing VILE or REPUGNANT, nonsensical or bad or wrong about them to me. I am a masochist. Pain actually feels good to me, pleasureable. Marks from play remind me of experiencing it, what I did/was done to me, how it felt when I got those marks and I enjoy them. Play is not torture for many. I don't equate play or lack of with dominance/submission or lack of dominance/submission. It's simply one aspect of bdsm that many enjoy. Some are wired for it and some are not, but that doesn't make anyone and their way of doing it better or worse than another.



MsDDom -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 12:41:33 PM)

quote:

I have 2 questions
1) What are some of the most VILE and REPUGNANT things done in bdsm that you could never see yourself doing?
2) I have a real difficulty understanding the psychology of a sadist or a masochist. Please try to explain your view of what is at the root of such desires to torture or be tortured and view it as love.

for me...
1) it would definitely be those things that encompass my hard limits (scat, guns, blood, needles, kids, animals)...
2) often it is hard for others to understand the thrill s&m brings to individuals. simply, it is a rush...like things that have a thresholds, that is where the delight is derived or felt. i think without the masochist, there is no sadist...the sadist depends on there being someone who enjoys pain (if that makes sense). then again, can a masochist turn one into a sadist...hmm.
nevertheless, can it be as simple as me not understanding why people eat steak rare? then again, i dont eat beef at all.
it is all preferences, desires, excitement, and joys.



jasada89 -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/13/2009 5:11:28 PM)

as a slave to my mistress and we are somewhat sadistic right now. We havent tried everything. She has of course done CBT on me shes stood on my chest. I just like the feeling of being overpowered and and at the will of the opposite sex it just satisfies her and I. I mean all the toys out there werent invented to just look at like ball crushers etc. if u dont like it then thats fine but i dont think u should ask or put down those who do and are comfortable enough to do it.



LunaVenus -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/14/2009 4:20:08 AM)

Thanks for all your help. I do whip, paddle, spank, flog etc but I try to not leave the huge RAISED welts and permanent scars that some like. That's more what I was asking about. When I discipline it does not PLEASE me but is just necessary in behavior modification and up to the limits of not permanently scaring or disfiguring my sub. I like to do no permanent harm.

My confusion is when it goes way beyond and does cause more permanent harm. And also what happens when the punishment is no longer punishment capable of disciplining .... but rather the slave actually looks forward to punishment so it is then an ineffective tool for training. It then is their reward to disobey you. At that point I find it quite confusing.

The vile and repugnant question was basically asking your hard limits, nothing more.
Happy Valentine's Day all.



thetammyjo -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/14/2009 7:13:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaVenus

Thanks for all your help. I do whip, paddle, spank, flog etc but I try to not leave the huge RAISED welts and permanent scars that some like. That's more what I was asking about. When I discipline it does not PLEASE me but is just necessary in behavior modification and up to the limits of not permanently scaring or disfiguring my sub. I like to do no permanent harm.

My confusion is when it goes way beyond and does cause more permanent harm. And also what happens when the punishment is no longer punishment capable of disciplining .... but rather the slave actually looks forward to punishment so it is then an ineffective tool for training. It then is their reward to disobey you. At that point I find it quite confusing.

The vile and repugnant question was basically asking your hard limits, nothing more.
Happy Valentine's Day all.


My hard limits are anything that harms my sub/slave. That harm can be mental or physical. I will hurt him but hurting is not necessarily harming someone. I stub my toe, it hurts but it doesn't harm my toe -- I break my toe it both hurts and harms my toe. See the difference?

I also have limits based on what I enjoy and am willing to learn to do in the safest manner possible. I learned via the apprenticeship model so I don't just try things out but look for a mentor/teacher to learn from, hands on. If don't have training to do something bondage or SM, then I don't do it. Period.

For me, SM is much like bondage in that I cause changes to my partner's mind and body but since I'm not a clinicial sadist I do it for his and my benefit wit his consent.

None of this comes from me thinking that anything is vile or evil merely that it does not mesh with my desires, my abilities or my personal codes of ethics and morals. Above all of that though is a selfish reason: If I break my toys what will I have to play with next? If I'm in jail, how is that fulfilling my life's potential?

I am, at my core, very selfish about how I judge what is and is not appropriate for me and those in my household.



MadameMarque -> RE: The mind of a Sadist /Vile and Repugnant (2/14/2009 8:28:39 AM)

For real?  First you say

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaVenus

I have a real difficulty understanding the psychology of a sadist or a masochist. Please try to explain your view of what is at the root of such desires to torture or be tortured and view it as love.
[clip]
I can not get my mind around why anyone would equate torture with love. It is certainly not necessary for dominance even.



...and then this
quote:

I do whip, paddle, spank, flog etc but I try to not leave the huge RAISED welts and permanent scars that some like. That's more what I was asking about. When I discipline it does not PLEASE me but is just necessary in behavior modification and up to the limits of not permanently scaring or disfiguring my sub. I like to do no permanent harm.


and
quote:

My confusion is when it goes way beyond and does cause more permanent harm. And also what happens when the punishment is no longer punishment capable of disciplining .... but rather the slave actually looks forward to punishment so it is then an ineffective tool for training. It then is their reward to disobey you. At that point I find it quite confusing.

???

You only beat your slave because it's "necessary"?  When you're beating your slave, trying hard to make sure it's not the least pleasurable, so that your slave will suffer for displeasing you, since of course, you put your own desires above those of the slave and your slave's suffering is a small price to pay for their doing everything you want....do you ever find that just an eensy bit sadistic?  And your slave, for voluntarily submitting to your punishment - instead of finding someone who *ah!* doesn't beat them at all - just a shade masochistic?

Here I was, thinking you couldn't imagine what sadomasochism is.

So "torture," with a sadist and masochist who both enjoy it, isn't necessary, but "punishment," in which you train your slave to your liking and they don't enjoy it - and well, supposedly, you don't enjoy it, either, you just have to - that's necessary.

Foreplay's not "necessary," either.  Disgusting.


P.S. - Please note: Punishing your slave is not necessary.  It is optional.

"You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means."
- from The Princess Bride, screenplay by William Goldman



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