RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs first..."

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/20/2009 12:22:20 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965
G'morning all:
What you perceive as bitterness is your own misinterpretation. Some female dominants, myself included, are just tired of others cramming their self righteous beliefs down our throats that we should have begun our BDSM journeys on the other side of the flogger. Simply because they did. Goodie for them. Makes it right for them, not for others. The fact that you've become defensive about "Old Guard" is an indicator of your own insecurity, no one else's. If it suited you, fine. It doesn't suit everyone.

Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...
Bella

M

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/20/2009 4:29:04 AM

Aeroil

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I have conducted extensive case studies, field tests, and experiements on this matter, you'll find my research is extraordinarily well-documented and irrefutable.

Female Dominant Points (FDP) are as we all know the primary factor for measuring skill at spanking people for those individuals who have breasts. The question here is do individuals who have earned Female Submission Points (FSP) have a higher FDP rating, that is to say, are FSP and FDP growth ratios directly or indirectly related. The answer is that yes, they in fact are indirectly related, and through careful derivation I have come up with the following formula that you can use to calculate the expected level of FDP considering their previous experience of accruing FSP

Tan (2*FDP) = 1 + Sin (2 * FSP)

I hope this clears up the issue.

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/20/2009 4:36:08 AM

MsDonnaMia

Posts: 95
Joined: 6/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: femdommistress

Hello! I have some question for Dommes and switches on CM.

I'll bet most of You have heard this opinion, that people who were slaves once, can be better Mistresses/Masters later, because they know from their own experience what it's like to be a sub in D/s relationship. And this experience seems to help them in understanding slave's psyche and emotions.

I'm wondering, what is Your opinion in this case. Do You agree with above sentence, or rather believe it's false? Or maybe You think, that sometimes this method is working out, and sometimes not?

Greetings, Lilith

I've never really been submissive (I gotten topped a few times, though - - amusing!), but I can tell you not having been submissive doesn't give me any trouble. personally I like the fact I never did really submit at all..it keeps me consistent! lol

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/20/2009 4:55:10 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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Absolutely it does clear things up.

Thank God you came Aeroil. M

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The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/20/2009 10:18:35 AM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
I am not against a self-initiated process of exploration. However, when you tell someone who already knows their orientation that they have to suffer extremely unpleasant and NON-CONSENSUAL experiences before they "earn" the right to be themselves, I really, seriously have to wonder about your agenda.

"Teacher" is just yet another position of power and authority to be abused--and many in the BDSM community do abuse it, if you let them. And just as an aside, if it's always oh-so-educational to learn BDSM by NOT being yourself, why is never the submissives who have to prove themselves by dominating? Why do submissives not have to "earn" the right to be submissives by learning to be a decent top first? Why is a submissive's "submissive nature" sacred and organic, while mine as a dominant has to be achieved by ordeal?

Umm, I'm not sure how you got that from my post - I'm not suggesting that Dom/mes need to submit or bottom first. You said that nobody tells heterosexual men to bottom or submit first, and I just thought I'd mention that I was aware of a few men who did take that approach.

I've been involved with a few people who were interested in BDSM, but hadn't actually tried it, so they weren't sure what they wanted. Usually I started out with very light switching, and they fairly quickly determined which side they were drawn to. They were willing to keep switching with me *IF* I had wanted them to, but only one or the other was what they enjoyed. So, we stuck to that, once they discovered what they wanted. I wasn't pressuring them. I didn't set myself up as some formal teacher, I was their girlfriend.

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/20/2009 10:33:22 AM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilKitty

Wow, y'all seem to have suffered some real jerks in your time! The bitterness is palpable.

Anyone who tries to persaude a person who will never enjoy submission into doing it on principle is a world-class jerk, in my opinion. I find it creepy and disgusting to try and manipulate someone's insecurities to take advantage of them sexually--which is basically what you're doing when you take a newbie dominant and tell him or her "You have to bend over first before you get to hold the flogger. 'Cause that's the club rule."

The one commonality I see in all of the people who are here talking about what wonderful dommes they became by submitting first, is that they CHOSE submission, usually within a community context, either because they were pressured by community standards or because they honestly did not know what they really wanted or needed. They gained something valuable in the end because they chose to suffer, for reasons of their own--as every sub does--and they got something edifying out of the experience. I've suffered through many self-inflicted ordeals in my lifetime and gotten edifying results as well; they just weren't sexual ordeals. Because I do not need one.

Yes, I have made my own experiments with bottoming over the years, on my own terms. Not least out of curiosity and the sneaking suspicion that bottoms really have all the fun in BDSM! I discovered that this was a dry well for me, of course, but I didn't have to suffer horribly before that became perfectly clear. Bondage is amusing for exactly as long as no one is touching me in ANY way I don't like. Hitting me is a damn good way to get hit yourself, unless I love you very much--in which case it is just a damn good way to make sure I love you a lot less in the future. And honestly, if I tried to gauge the force that should be exerted on another person's body, or the pain I should inflict strictly by the standard of what my own body can endure, I would probably be a real monster.

The upshot here is: this is not a path that would work for me, for various reasons. What occasions real bitterness is when people in this community try to force the submission I have already rejected on me once again, when the creepy and horrible patriarchal society I live in has been trying to force it on me all of my life. Jesus Christ, people--how many times does a woman have to say NO before the world can fucking hear it and believe it?

I am also somewhat nettled when people declare that the path they've taken is "better", when it's obvious by definition they cannot judge any other. From my point of view, basic safety and technique with ANY tool can be taught very competently and adequately by an experienced person without being subjected to it. Anyone can test a cane or riding crop on her own arm or leg to see roughly how hard it bites. As for the pain of a "mis-strike" with a whip--dear Christ, can I possibly be the only one who has popped MYSELF with the stupid single-tail while practicing over-enthusiastically?

I don't deny it is important to empathize with your submissive and masochistic partners. What I don't understand is why caring how they feel, listening to them when they speak and connecting deeply with their bodies is not a good enough answer. The lessons that most people learn by submission are lessons not about their future partners, but about themselves. Some of us acquire the same information by other means. *shrug*

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/20/2009 1:05:51 PM

beeble

Posts: 799
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quote:

Aeroil wrote:
The question here is do individuals who have earned Female Submission Points (FSP) have a higher FDP rating, that is to say, are FSP and FDP growth ratios directly or indirectly related. [...]

Tan (2*FDP) = 1 + Sin (2 * FSP)

Hmm. So, what you're saying is that, for all women, FDP lies between 0 and about 0.55? I guess female dominance is a myth, after all...

beeble.

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/20/2009 2:04:18 PM

hardbodysub

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I disagree completely with the statement in the OP, for more than one reason.

(1) One person doesn't necessarily experience things in the same way as another. Different pain tolerances, different likes/dislikes, all kinds of things can create different experiences. So just having spent time as a sub doesn't necessarily make a person any better at knowing what another sub is feeling.

(2) A "good" domme (whatever that is) doesn't really need to know exactly what her sub is feeling, anyway. Many dommes succeed by focusing on their own needs and wants. Knowing the sub's likes and dislikes, what makes him weak in the knees, what arouses him sexually, how he tolerates pain, and what "makes him tick", physically and psychologically, can obviously help her control him. But she doesn't need to know precisely what he feels, as long as she knows what works.

(3) I think that spending time as a bottom may help someone be a better top, because the emphasis seems to be more on physical play, technique, and sensation - although with caveat to (1) above. The sub/dom issue seems much more an issue of psychological orientation.

< Message edited by hardbodysub -- 2/20/2009 2:05:29 PM >

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/20/2009 2:42:28 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

I disagree completely with the statement in the OP, for more than one reason.

(1) One person doesn't necessarily experience things in the same way as another. Different pain tolerances, different likes/dislikes, all kinds of things can create different experiences. So just having spent time as a sub doesn't necessarily make a person any better at knowing what another sub is feeling.

(2) A "good" domme (whatever that is) doesn't really need to know exactly what her sub is feeling, anyway. Many dommes succeed by focusing on their own needs and wants. Knowing the sub's likes and dislikes, what makes him weak in the knees, what arouses him sexually, how he tolerates pain, and what "makes him tick", physically and psychologically, can obviously help her control him. But she doesn't need to know precisely what he feels, as long as she knows what works.

(3) I think that spending time as a bottom may help someone be a better top, because the emphasis seems to be more on physical play, technique, and sensation - although with caveat to (1) above. The sub/dom issue seems much more an issue of psychological orientation.

I pretty much agree with that, I know some fantastic tops who never submitted, some who have and some who switch, hey I even know a few tops who are submissives, most of them are great but I don't think you need to submit to be a better top, it's more what you feel comfortable with. I tried to submit a few times out of curiosity and because I really wanted to try, didn't work but it was amusing sitting around tied up and the top was serving me, like giving me a drink, bringing me another pillow, we decided it's not quite a successful experiment and gave up, took me a while to accept that I can only play as top, but hey, can't have everything in life. Whatever floats your boat, it doesn't mean I can't be emphatic....

As for 3. I am a firm believer in trying out what I dish out and how it feels, but that's just common sense.

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