RE: Giving the "Why"

RE: Giving the "Why" (Full Version)

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girlygurl -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/16/2009 11:04:46 PM)
My Sir will periodically give me tasks and I never ask why. Depending on what He's asking of me, I can pretty much figure out the why myself. I never think to ask why He wants me to do something for Him. I know He'd never place me in harms way so it's all good.

agirl -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 1:58:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chamberqueen That was my point in asking the original question. By not being able to ask a prospective Master WHY I feel that the chance to build trust is diminished. It's not like this is an established relationship. I don't mind if he wants to give me a task of curling my hair each day or working out to a video. Those are things that will make me feel better about myself and I don't need to ask why, just accept that it pleases him. It shows good faith if I do them and they are not hurting anyone. He has been active in the lifestyle for over 20 years. He knows that I was well trained and may feel that I am capable of moving faster than someone who is brand new to the lifestyle. I would have thought that with that much experience he would understand that trust needs to be built step by step. The task I have been asked to do is not in and of itself dangerous, but if he is not to be trusted than the result of it could be. That is the reason I asked WHY he wanted me to do it. I just wanted to be sure that his motives were pure without coming out and asking that question. Still your reasoning doesn't add up. You've given control to someone who you aren't sure of and you seem to be guessing what he may or may not be thinking and I have to be honest...........20yrs active in the lifestyle can mean everything or nothing. It depends on what he was active doing and how well he was doing it. There are plenty of ways to build trust without injecting 'control' or 'obey' into your interactions when you barely know someone. Why complicate things? Why do you need to show good faith? The fact remains that you were asked to do something that caused you to wonder about his motives because you don't trust him or know him well enough to trust him. He assures you his motives are pure ........and you trust his assurance. There are no shortcuts to trust.........There's no need to show good faith or show you can obey if he already knows you were well-trained, surely? agirl

SassySarijane -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 6:07:58 AM)
The whole 20 years in the lifestyle thing doesn't mean jack shit when said by someone online you've just started talking to and never met face to face. People can tell you anything online. I'd wait until I could verify that claim before believing it straight off from a total stranger which is pretty much what he is at this point and I'd take time for working through the end of a previous relationship and working on me before jumping into a new one. For the most part (yes there are exceptions) they don't work out or end well and add more baggage on top of what you already had.

marie2 -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 6:26:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: ORIGINAL: chamberqueen I am under consideration by a Master who recently gave me a task. The task is not too difficult but will make me a little uncomfortable. His answer was, "because it will please me". He told me that I overthink things, that I am never to ask WHY, just to do what he says and put my full trust in him. Translation: I hold out the carrot of a relationship and you would not believe the shit I can convince women to do. Yup. This is it in a nutshell. I've been burned before in the "under consideration" phase. I was in a relationship where it was the beginning stage, the "under consideration" phase. There was no commitment on the dom's part, yet I was expected to offer complete compliance as if there was already an established ds relationship intact. I went out of my way to prove myself, to trust, to take a risk, to take that leap of faith, to do things that bumped up against healthy boundaries all for the "dangling carrot", all for the moment of final acceptance, only to be told months later "sorry, we're just not a fit". (Yeah ok, not a problem, but don't demand utter submission and expect me to dance to your tune, until you're sure we are a fit.). Of course this was after he got some kinky, no-strings attached sex out of the deal, that he never would have gotten had he not bullshitted me with the "dangling carrot". I guess I should feel like a moron to even admit to being played that way, but whatever. It happened and I learned from it. As a result, I've come to believe that the level of submission should be commensurate with the level of commitment that the dom has to the relationship; the level of devotion on the sub's part should grow in accordance to the level of devotion on the dom's part. There should be a mutual growth taking place that can be felt by both parties. I know that many people would disagree with that, and that's fine. Mine is just another experience thrown into the mix here. And I don't subscribe anymore to the concept of one person proving themselves while the other sits back on a throne waiting to be impressed. After it's been established however, that you're in his life as his submissive and like he's in it for the long haul, then sure, I think it's fine to do things that push beyond limits, and things that take a "leap of faith" and a "don't question me" kind of attitude. But until that type of relationship and level of trust has been established, I personally wouldn't accept this attitude of just blindly obey anything and everything without question, just because he says so. Sounds very weak to me and like someone who just wants ready-made submission and doesn't know how to get it any other way.

chamberqueen -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 8:08:02 AM)
NuevaVida, I agree. No matter how well trained you may be by one Master, a new Master will want you trained in his own way. That means starting from scratch. LockIt, you are right. The number of years in the lifestyle does not necessarily have anything to do with either the amount of knowledge or the maturity of the person. If anything, I would expect that the more mature a person is the more they would want to build a base of trust. marie2, thank you so much for sharing your experience and you are NOT a moron. To all of you who have cautioned that I should not immediately jump into a new relationship - I wholeheartedly agree with this. I am exploring a possibility to see whether it is best for ME to get back up on the horse that just bucked me off or whether I should just go take a nap for a while. I am not turning over total control to a man I have never met. That would be a foolish risk. I am handing over a small amount of control as a good faith gesture to see what will be done with it. If I feel taken advantage of I will bolt. The reason for this thread was not to look for approval of my actions. It was to get opinions from Masters on whether or not they allow their slaves to ask for the reason behind a task if the slave feels unsure. I have gotten answers ranging from how important that is, especially in the beginning, to "shut the fuck up and do as I say". Most are in between. I just wanted to get a feel for how standard it is (in a totally non-standard community) for the answer to be "just trust me". That's a great answer once a relationship is established and the Master has proven himself not just in the community but TO THAT SLAVE. agirl, you used the perfect phrase - one aspect of the task made me "question his motives". That was the whole reason I asked for clarification. While I long to serve I will not set myself up as a patsy. My value is too great, and if it takes years for someone to see it I would rather wait than live a life without appropriate appreciation for everything that I have to give.

cantilena -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 8:10:38 AM)
~Fast Reply to OP~ I haven't read all the responses, but a fair number of them probably read something along the lines of advice to slow down. This is just a post adding one more voice to that advice, if it was given. Just a gentle reminder, even though you don't know me, is that I think I read you just broke up. That means, by definition, this soon... you're on the rebound. If it were me (and I do realize it's not me, so how do I know), I'd try to take the time to heal first before getting involved in any sort of relationship involving absolute trust. Like it or not, right after an unpleasant breakup, there is bound to be trust baggage... better to put the luggage away a little bit first. It's bound to colour your judgement; right or wrong, decision-making is going to be affected this soon after a painful goodbye. Besides all of the above, it sounds faintly ludicrous to me that any serious dominant would demand trust so quickly. Not having any additional details is hard - maybe you've known this guy as a friend for a long time, who knows? But if not, my hunch is that this won't work for very long.

DesFIP -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 8:13:43 AM)
Giving why works for some and not for others. If you need to know why, especially from someone you are not in a relationship with, do not have enough understanding of to know if he really cares about the effect of this on you or if he's solely interested in getting off on it, then he isn't correct to demand this of you. Me, I needed a lot of why in the beginning because that's how I learned whether or not he had thought things through, and therefore was someone I could trust not to make a major fuck up of my life. Once he had proven to me that he did think things through, then I didn't need to know why. But by then we were committed to each other. The fact that he isn't committed to you yet demands things that are of major concerns would be a red flag to me. YMMV.

marie2 -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 8:27:31 AM)
chamberqueen: As an afterthought---I know it's easy for us to sit here with our recommendations and advice, but when you're in the place you're in, I know the line can be a blurry one, as to where your submission begins and where the self-preservations ends. That line can be in a very different place for each of us. I may be biased because of my own negative experience with such circumstances, but obviously that doesn't necessarily make this the wrong path for someone else. I just wanted to offer another thought, and what I think would be good question for anyone to ask themselves in this type of situation. If it doesn't turn out to be the relationship I'm hoping for, how will I feel about the decisions I made? Will I regret having acquiessed to his will? Or will I regret that I didn't?

persephonee -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 8:29:03 AM)
Generally speaking, in a case where there was very little past action to put your trust in...my first thought would be that the person in question hasnt really thought out a clear answer to "why". The only time ive ever heard the phrase, "trust me" by someone who hadnt been around long enough to develop that level of trust would be from a used car salesman. Just as its not wise to ascribe the negative aspects of a past relationship to your new one...its just as unwise to ascribe the positive ones...your prior Master earned your trust over time...try to allow the new relationship to grow on its own power as opposed to handing over all the trust all at once in the beginning....a prize is only worth how much effort was involved in winning it...or something pithier than that, im sick today.

CrazyCats -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 9:05:42 AM)
To answer the OP: Personally I tend to give out the why's of what I do when asked, and sometimes when not asked if it is a new task. Sometimes I do make the sub wait till after the task is complete, but generally only if the girl is inquisitive by nature. (Which helps them learn that there are times it is ok to ask and times where they need to figure things out for themselves.) I generally subscribe to the theory that we suffer to learn, and if one doesn't learn from the suffering, then it will continue until we learn the right lessons. Much of the time, if I do not give some sort of why, it is because I wish to know what the sub reasons out for herself. (Suffering in this since is more than just "ow! that hurt" sort of suffering.) I always try to answer a sub's questions, because otherwise how is she supposed to learn the stuff that is not always so obvious? There is no fast and hard rule there for me, just something that I generally do. In your situation, the answer given raised new questions, and showed that you were nervous or had an issue. That should have been an indication to the dom that he/she needed to take a little time to figure out what was/is actually wrong and work with you on it.

IronBear -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 9:22:20 AM)
If a girlorboy asksme why I want something done in a specific way, I pick up a copy of the home manifesto (Which details all such tasks,how and why they are to be done including the times I expect them to be completed); bound in leather over wood and swat their arse hard and instruct them to read it after they are finished for the night or instead of partaking in the next meal. Ther are then asked a number of questions regarding this at my leasure.. No one has ever asked such a question twice. Having laid some one out cold when I hit them on the head after throwing a similar weighted book (A military training manual) at them. I don't throw books because I have far too much respect for books.

maybemaybenot -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 2:39:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chamberqueen To all of you who have cautioned that I should not immediately jump into a new relationship - I wholeheartedly agree with this. I am exploring a possibility to see whether it is best for ME to get back up on the horse that just bucked me off or whether I should just go take a nap for a while. I am not turning over total control to a man I have never met. That would be a foolish risk. I am handing over a small amount of control as a good faith gesture to see what will be done with it. If I feel taken advantage of I will bolt. Why would you turn ANY control over to some one you don't know at all. All you know is that he has a computer, can type words and maybe has a phone he talks to you on. That describes almost everyone who is on the internet. You are indeed turning control over to a man you never met. Either you are or you aren't; and you clearly state you are turning " a small amount of control". Well, that is turning control over. White wash it all you want, you are giving up part of yourself to a complete stranger. If that is your thing, go for it. Just don't cry when it doesn't work out the way you hoped. Why do you need to show any good faith measures ? The fact that you respond, chat, or whatever you do, should be sufficient to show you are interested in him. Why do you feel the need to do circus tricks to show good faith ? Any jack ass can do do silly tasks. It doesn't prove your slave/sub ness at all. In my world, my word is the good faith measure when we are just getting to know each other. < edited to add: > Even in an established relationship, my word is the primamry show of good faith. The tasks, chores, obedience and all the other whistles and bells are just re enforcement of my word. Outward symbols, in other words. As for getting thrown from the horse < BDSM>, I have no problem jumping back on, but I am going to do it better next time. I'm going to figure out why I got thrown, what I can do to prevent being thrown again, learn as much as I can about the horses personality and tendancies, get a feel for the horse and which one is best suited to my riding skills. What you are doing is going into the barn, with a blindfold on, hearing one of the horses whinney and saying " saddle me up, I'm going for a ride". I ride horses, and personally I wouldn't get on any old nag that happens to be in the barn. mbmbn

MasterLark -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/17/2009 5:40:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chamberqueen Thank you, MasterLark, for your insight. The only reason that I was concerned at all about the task is that I felt that one facet of it had the potential to put me at risk. It is to be done in preparation for a first meeting and I did not want to give mixed signals. While talking on the phone, using the internet, etc., can help you to learn about a potential partner, the first face to face meeting is very important and I did not want to give the impression that with my compliance in fulfilling every aspect of the task that I was giving up the right to sit down and talk and get to know each other before I make the decision of whether or not to share my body. That is why I respectfully asked WHY the task was given. I needed to make sure that it was completely understood that during this time of consideration only that my rights to my body remained mine. I wanted to know that by doing as told that he did not feel that I was giving that up. you are welcome. you have been careful not to reveal the task, and that is fine. you do say one facet of it had the potential to put you at risk. I don't know what that means, but if he is requiring you to do something that puts you at risk and he is not present to ensure you will be safe, do not do it. you note that: "That is why I respectfully asked WHY the task was given. I needed to make sure that it was completely understood that during this time of consideration only that my rights to my body remained mine. I wanted to know that by doing as told that he did not feel that I was giving that up." Just curious, did you tell him that? If you did and he brushed it off, red flag. One more curiosity if I may, why do you sign your message "mastersbutterfly"?

chamberqueen -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/18/2009 5:47:47 AM)
MasterLark, I was given the name mastersbutterfly to use while under consideration because the Master felt that he could help me to emerge from my current troubles (after having been dismissed) and become a beautiful butterfly. He feels that he can bring out the best in me and help me to turn into an exquisite creature. I no longer have an account on CM because I have been hounded by a cyberstalker. I am going to have a slave friend of mine contact you and give you my regular email address. I would like to answer your other questions but not publicly. I could use a reality check from another Master right now because I am getting a lot of mixed signals.

SirDarkside357 -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/23/2009 2:28:48 AM)
Personally, I don't give such tasks until trust has been established.... but once it has been, I seldom explain the why up front....only after the lesson has been learned do I explain, if then....but then, that's just my way.

SirJ40 -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/23/2009 7:34:03 AM)
I will give the why or not, depending on if it will be helpful/useful in the completion of the task or duty. Sometimes, knowing the 'why' means that the lesson is properly learned, the point is made, and such things never have to be repeated. The 'why' can be useful.

Jeptha -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/23/2009 11:17:51 AM)
So, if we're talking about tasks that the dominant asks you to perform in his absence, then I'd say that it's ok to hope that the things you are asked to do make some fucking sense. "Because I want you to" can be a reason, but it doesn't necessarily satisfy the conditions of reason or of being reasonable. (Which I would hope even "Masters" are subject to, at least sometimes.) Asking "why", on the other hand, can be overdone. ~Like the college student who has just enough psychology to question everyone else's motives, but not enough to examine her own. Sometimes I want to forge connections and associations through action, or repetition, not through explanations. Sometimes overthinking a simple task can get in the way of learning it well. But, actions where you might need reassurance I would want to be there to help walk you through; and if I am absent, tasks aren't going to be terribly inconvenient and are probably mostly symbolic or a reminder of some sort. If it is because you are genuinely unsure about something, though, then "why?" is always a legitimate question.

akisha -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/23/2009 3:31:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chamberqueen <snip> The next morning I called him and respectfully asked if I might ask WHY the task was given to me. His answer was, "because it will please me". I cautiously proceeded and said that I knew that some Masters would find that such a task would excite their slaves, that some would enjoy the humiliation of the slave, and that for others it would simply mean easy access to them. He told me that I overthink things, that I am never to ask WHY, just to do what he says and put my full trust in him. <snip> If you have concerns you ask questions, if he won't answer the questions and says "Just do as your told" my response would be "go piss up a rope and goodbye" But hey to each his own. You can only do what you are comfortable with. seeing as you were just released about a week or so ago I'm going to guess you barely know this guy so how much trust can you actually have in him yet? If I just did as I was told by ever supposed Dominant I started talking to, I'm pretty sure I would have done alot of things I was really really not comfortable with. Considering I had one guy that wanted me to be itimate with him and his grown daughter at the same time, and another guy that wanted me to meet him alone in an isolated place so we could "connect" better rriiiigggghhttttttt.

chamberqueen -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/23/2009 4:40:35 PM)
I have decided not to more forward with the relationship because things were going way too fast. Now I feel that I can reveal the task. Along with being told how to dress for the initial meeting I was told to wear no panties and to wear panty hose with the crotch cut out. I would have gladly dressed as requested, even gone without panties, but I was afraid that showing up with the crotch cut out of my panties was a sign that anything that happened from that point on was consensual whether it was or not. That's the reason I asked WHY. I wanted to know if he just wanted me to feel hot at the idea of traveling that way, whether he was hoping that it would make me suffer some humiliation, or whether he thought that it meant that I was automatically open to any type of touch. "Because it is my pleasure to have you that way" was not a good enough answer for me. If he were to have overpowered me and the police found out that I showed up that way then it could be taken as a sexual invitation and thus rape charges might not stick. I was not concerned about something petty, but something that I felt might endanger me. When I asked if I may share my fears his reaction was to accuse me of calling him crass, I felt was over the top. I accused him of nothing, only told him of my fear of being misundertood. He ended the conversation with, "fine, do what you want". This showed me a huge lack of maturity. So - I did what I wanted. I watched his actions and words over the next few days and continued to feel greater and greater pressure from him and called the whole thing off. I'm going to just take time to heal and consider no Masters until I know that I am back in a good physical and emotional state. I was so scared that no one would consider me after being dismissed that I was simply flattered by the attention and had high hopes. I know now that I'm not ready. I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to share their comments with me. I feel like I learned a lot, and if I ever get to the point where I am considered a new Master I will definitely be asking him if he allows a slave to ask WHY. It will tell me a lot about him. : )

SassySarijane -> RE: Giving the "Why" (2/23/2009 4:53:36 PM)
I can't say I'm surprised that it turned out that way, had a feeling, but I am glad you chose to end it and want to take some time to heal and work on you. That's the best thing and is much more likely to contribute to your happiness in the long run. It just came off wrong to me even with you not naming the task. The things you did say were enough. My best to you. [:)]

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