quote:

At the close, the Dow was down more than 297.81 points, at 7,552.60 points, a drop of 3.79 percent. Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/17/business/18marketsA.php 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Well, say this, for President Obama, the source of the quote, he didn't say "Mission Accomplished" on the tarmac in Denver. The balance of the similarities weren't lost upon me. The big multiple pen signing photo-op. You could almost hear the money being paid out and exchanged from all the election 'special interest' groups who will be paid off with this fiasco of a program.

Winners - well, unless you are like me and part of a 'short-sale' investment group -

quote:

At the close, the Dow was down more than 297.81 points, at 7,552.60 points, a drop of 3.79 percent. Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/17/business/18marketsA.php 

there were the usual suspects.

Number one winner? - Public employee (government) unions. Guaranteed that not one of them is looking at the 'help wanted' ads, worried that a lay off, or salary cut is pending. Nope - with almost a Trillion of entitlements and specious programs approved and with money in the pipeline - government is a boom industry! Too bad you can't buy any stock in that. Well technically we all have but the only benefit and dividend you can count on is a ballooning deficit that, if it works, will take your grand-children's income to payoff. If it doesn't work? Well....

Next stop another look at the foreclosure/mortgage issue. In about a week every one of us who have paid their mortgages is going to feel very foolish. Hell, that's not news; those looking around for "CHANGE!" have to be feeling that already. Rewarding the failures of foreclosure with 'moratorium' or direct payments will eliminate the last, and largest, reserve of private equity - real estate. Bad enough for individuals, but considering the implications on the Banking and Insurance Industry; it has catastrophic implications. However, this too may be another deliberate action to achieve a state creating a reliance on the government to provide the basic necessities of shelter, food, work, and life itself.

The government already employees more than any other entity; producing nothing but more government bureaucracy. In Vegas this weekend you could buy a prime condo for ten cents on the dollar of face value. The New City project is virtually bankrupt; requiring the sale of Treasure Island and the 'for sale' sign on the Mirage to fund just the interest payment due. Caesars closed construction on their latest tower with no re-start planned.

With all the money going to fund failures - there's apparently is none left to fund any successful ventures. All the assets of the country seem to be committed to maintaining government union jobs, and funding failure. Where will the successes come from to use the new roads? What private investor sees this plan 'working' and willing to put up their money into a project based upon a mandate of bloating government bureaucracy and spending? 

Anyone who is interested in seeing this model of economics play out to its logical conclusion; look no further than my home State - California. Ahead of the curve in bureaucratic entitlement programs, today we are a State with no money to send out tax refunds. Businesses either have plans in the works to leave, or have left already. A HUGE insurance/finance entity will be announcing closing of all the servicing from CA - moving it to Texas by spring; another 10,000 or so middle class income jobs relocate with them. They aren't unique.

I'd be remiss to point out one accomplishment of this administration that I could never anticipate and never thought I'd see as citizen of the USA. We not have, and accept, government setting salary structure in the private sector. Imagine that? I know I couldn't, even in the dark ages of Nixon's price/wage freeze, salaries were frozen not dictated. 

Amazing tool - failure; I'm impressed at how well it was used to achieve a goal. Hold out bait and you'd be surprised at how many dumb fish you catch. Here we have executives who should have been allowed to go down with their antiquated and obsolete ships, grasp at the life preserver of government 'bail-out'. The hook was buried well and "mission accomplished" to nationalization of the financial service industry. BRILLIANT! Without a revolution and without a shot fired, a key cornerstone of US Capitalism removed.

In many ways today in Denver is President Obama's "...sweeping economic package.." IS "Mission Accomplished!" All that was missing was a carrier landing and jumpsuit.

...'And the crowd goes wild!!!'  

• Bush isn't President
  
• This isn't the 'good old days' of 2005
  
• Not that it should be personally focused any more than it should be political party focus, but - I never supported any of President Bush's spending programs; including the occupation of Iraq.

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Has the propaganda so distorted our view of what govt. should and shouldn't do, that we now let partisan poison corrupt our newly selective outrage ?

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doing so while times were getting worse for labor

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They would give up two paid state holidays -- Lincoln's Birthday and Columbus Day. State offices would be open for business on those days and employees who work them would not be paid overtime. In return, union workers would receive two additional personal days off. Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-union15-2009feb15,0,7911622.story 

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Why is that only now that I see on these boards a micrscopic parsing of one spending bill that is and will be further dwarded by handouts to wall street and their cronies

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Ok ok. So maybe I am missing something...

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Well, say this, for President Obama, the source of the quote, he didn't say "Mission Accomplished" on the tarmac in Denver. The balance of the similarities weren't lost upon me. The big multiple pen signing photo-op. You could almost hear the money being paid out and exchanged from all the election 'special interest' groups who will be paid off with this fiasco of a program.

Winners - well, unless you are like me and part of a 'short-sale' investment group -

quote:

At the close, the Dow was down more than 297.81 points, at 7,552.60 points, a drop of 3.79 percent. Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/17/business/18marketsA.php 

there were the usual suspects.

Number one winner? - Public employee (government) unions. Guaranteed that not one of them is looking at the 'help wanted' ads, worried that a lay off, or salary cut is pending. Nope - with almost a Trillion of entitlements and specious programs approved and with money in the pipeline - government is a boom industry! Too bad you can't buy any stock in that. Well technically we all have but the only benefit and dividend you can count on is a ballooning deficit that, if it works, will take your grand-children's income to payoff. If it doesn't work? Well....

Next stop another look at the foreclosure/mortgage issue. In about a week every one of us who have paid their mortgages is going to feel very foolish. Hell, that's not news; those looking around for "CHANGE!" have to be feeling that already. Rewarding the failures of foreclosure with 'moratorium' or direct payments will eliminate the last, and largest, reserve of private equity - real estate. Bad enough for individuals, but considering the implications on the Banking and Insurance Industry; it has catastrophic implications. However, this too may be another deliberate action to achieve a state creating a reliance on the government to provide the basic necessities of shelter, food, work, and life itself.

The government already employees more than any other entity; producing nothing but more government bureaucracy. In Vegas this weekend you could buy a prime condo for ten cents on the dollar of face value. The New City project is virtually bankrupt; requiring the sale of Treasure Island and the 'for sale' sign on the Mirage to fund just the interest payment due. Caesars closed construction on their latest tower with no re-start planned.

With all the money going to fund failures - there's apparently is none left to fund any successful ventures. All the assets of the country seem to be committed to maintaining government union jobs, and funding failure. Where will the successes come from to use the new roads? What private investor sees this plan 'working' and willing to put up their money into a project based upon a mandate of bloating government bureaucracy and spending? 

Anyone who is interested in seeing this model of economics play out to its logical conclusion; look no further than my home State - California. Ahead of the curve in bureaucratic entitlement programs, today we are a State with no money to send out tax refunds. Businesses either have plans in the works to leave, or have left already. A HUGE insurance/finance entity will be announcing closing of all the servicing from CA - moving it to Texas by spring; another 10,000 or so middle class income jobs relocate with them. They aren't unique.

I'd be remiss to point out one accomplishment of this administration that I could never anticipate and never thought I'd see as citizen of the USA. We not have, and accept, government setting salary structure in the private sector. Imagine that? I know I couldn't, even in the dark ages of Nixon's price/wage freeze, salaries were frozen not dictated. 

Amazing tool - failure; I'm impressed at how well it was used to achieve a goal. Hold out bait and you'd be surprised at how many dumb fish you catch. Here we have executives who should have been allowed to go down with their antiquated and obsolete ships, grasp at the life preserver of government 'bail-out'. The hook was buried well and "mission accomplished" to nationalization of the financial service industry. BRILLIANT! Without a revolution and without a shot fired, a key cornerstone of US Capitalism removed.

In many ways today in Denver is President Obama's "...sweeping economic package.." IS "Mission Accomplished!" All that was missing was a carrier landing and jumpsuit.

...'And the crowd goes wild!!!'  

quote:

Davis went on to say in his talk that while government officials marketed the program as a way to entice banks to lend again, TARP actually was designed to give solid banks like U.S. Bancorp some extra cash to buy weaker banks in the system. U.S. Bancorp did just that late last year when it acquired the assets of two failed banks in California, Downey Savings and Loan and PFF Bank & Trust. "We were told to take it so that we could help Darwin synthesize the weaker banks and acquire those and put them under different leadership," he said. "We are not even allowed to mention that. ... We were supposed to say the TARP money was used for lending."
Source: U.S Bancorp 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Next stop another look at the foreclosure/mortgage issue. In about a week every one of us who have paid their mortgages is going to feel very foolish. Hell, that's not news; those looking around for "CHANGE!" have to be feeling that already. Rewarding the failures of foreclosure with 'moratorium' or direct payments will eliminate the last, and largest, reserve of private equity - real estate. Bad enough for individuals, but considering the implications on the Banking and Insurance Industry; it has catastrophic implications. However, this too may be another deliberate action to achieve a state creating a reliance on the government to provide the basic necessities of shelter, food, work, and life itself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Better luck next time  . 

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Thus, most of the foreclosures that have happened in the past few years, and most of those that will be happening in the next few, are unlawful and illegal.

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Hold the parties that violated and broke laws accountable.

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Citizens are loosing across the board as a result of the illegal behavior on the part of lenders, et. al. Some are having their equity and property stolen from them completely. Others are having their equity vanish as a result of lowering property values. Others find themselves in an upside down position. There are no circumstances under which any of this is right.

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Blaming the victim is certainly the wrong solution.

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I don't intend to be flippant or argumentative. Neither do I have the time to completely explain my positions to you if you are not already familiar with the governing statutes and regulations.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

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Hold the parties that violated and broke laws accountable.

Who exactly are they and how? Would that include the members of the oversight committee in Congress? Again how?

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Citizens are loosing across the board as a result of the illegal behavior on the part of lenders, et. al. Some are having their equity and property stolen from them completely. Others are having their equity vanish as a result of lowering property values. Others find themselves in an upside down position. There are no circumstances under which any of this is right.

Dealing daily with ECOA, and Truth in Lending; every "illegal" document I've read details what can happen. If it didn't the courts void the contract. The problem is another clause in almost, if not all, mortgage documents. It says that if one provision of this contract is deemed by a court of law to be unenforceable the balance of the contract provisions remain as obligations. In other words you still have to pay your mortgage. You don't get to live there for free and you have an obligation to the person, or entity, which provided the capital necessary for you to live in your home.

However, as reasonable as your position may be to you, it's not the position of the Administration. They aren't considering individual circumstances or contractual language. Their position isn't concerned about why, or how, you can't pay. It's enough that you failed. Their goal is to reward you for that, circumstances as to why don't enter into any picture that I've read. Don't pay - the government will. Upside-down in your equity - walk away and the government will pick up and pay back the lender. Where in the policy of this rewarding failure program are the issues you raise being addressed?

What specifically was the "illegal behavior"? Access? Advertising? 'Bait & Switch'? Sitting with my lender I had about 50 options, including many that had a 'worst case' that would raise my payment considerably. Was it "illegal" to offer it and let me say yes or no? As a mortgage lender in the secondary market, some people would say they wanted fewer points and take a higher APR, some wanted to negotiate the other way. As you know, manipulating those two variables produces the exact same net yield if paid over the same time. Was it illegal to not show them the calculation as proof they got the same deal either way? 

I'll take it further - show me the exact "illegal" language or act universally committed and present in every case of mortgage default and I'll join your side of the battle.

Homeownership is NOT an entitlement. Equity is NOT a provision in the loan document. The house was worth what it was as of that date of sale. You bought it. Tomorrow it can be worth 50% less or 50% more. Where is it a responsibility of government to insure that can always afford the house, and always live there?

Do you call people "victims" who, when they moved into a home the property tax was $900 per year, but after 10 years its $9,000? Should those people not have to pay? 

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Blaming the victim is certainly the wrong solution.

Blame is wrong across the board if the resources necessary to determine exactly who it is take away from resources necessary to implement a solution.

Does you position limit the definition of "victim" to misinformed home buyer? What of the Bank stock investor? What of the insurance company who bought Fannie Mae 'guaranteed assets' which should have not qualified for the program?

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I don't intend to be flippant or argumentative. Neither do I have the time to completely explain my positions to you if you are not already familiar with the governing statutes and regulations.

UN,
Nor do I.

To me this is more important. If you choose to answer one question please let it be this one; where is the solution in your position?