Something that Could Be Important

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Something that Could Be Important

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Something that Could Be Important

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Something that Could Be Important - 2/21/2009 1:40:59 PM

anthrosub

Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline

I was watching a science program on the History Channel the other night. I think it was called, "The Known Universe" and this segment focused on what we know about the sun. It was discussing a solar storm that occurred in 2005. The storm was strong enough to knock out the power in Montreal, Canada for a few days and the Aurora was seen much further south than usual.

But what really got my attention was the mention of a previous solar storm that occurred in 1859 (known as the Carrington Event). It was so strong, the Aurora was seen as far south as the Carribean and the night sky was so bright, people could read the newspaper at night in London. The storm knocked out all telegraph service in Europe and North America. Telegraph operators reported electrocutions and even papers on their desks catching fire.

If another storm like the one in 1859 or greater were to hit today...all electricity in the northern hemisphere would be knocked out for a minimum of 3 months. Why? Because all the generators would need to be replaced and it would take that long for them to be manufactured and installed.

In essence, we would be sent back to the Stone Age. No cell phones, TV, radio, refrigeration, fresh water, sewage treatment, everything we take for granted that depends on electriciy would be gone. Hospitals would be seriously compromised. Gas stations would have to pump gas with a hand pump (never mind getting a resupply). The list of things impacted is enormous. It would definitely destroy the world economy as we know it and governments around the world would be hard pressed to contain the chaos.

This is not a fairy tale like the supposed end of the world in December, 2012. This could really happen.

It's a known fact that people tend to ignore such things as this. Historically we have built towns and cities on fertile flood plains and then scratch our head when the river rises every 50 to 75 years. People in California have large neighborhoods right on the San Andreas fault or cliffs that let go with mud slides. Others build in areas prone to hurricanes (New Orleans) or tornados...and so on.

But this solar storm issue. This would be a global event that has nothing to do with location!

It might be a good idea to learn some survival skills you can use and pass on to the kiddies because one day this could be reality!

< Message edited by anthrosub -- 2/21/2009 2:27:33 PM >

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

Profile

Post #: 1

RE: Something that Could Be Important - 2/21/2009 2:07:34 PM

thornhappy

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I was watching a science program on the History Channel the other night. I think it was called, "The Known Universe" and this segment focused on what we know about the sun. It was discussing a solar storm that occurred in 2005. The storm was strong enough to knock out the power in Montreal, Canada for a few days and the Aurora was seen much further south than usual.

The Hydro-Quebec outage was in March of 1989, and there's a cool web page about it here.

That storm in the 1800s was really something; telegraph operators in Maine commented that the telegraph worked "by celestial batteries alone" - so much current was dumped into the transmission lines that the liquid cell batteries weren't necessary for operation.

For info on real-time space weather, check out the Space Environment Center. Things are kind of dull now, because we're in a solar minimum.

thornhappy

(in reply to anthrosub)

Profile

Post #: 2

RE: Something that Could Be Important - 2/21/2009 2:25:02 PM

anthrosub

Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline

Hmmm...I don't doubt your date but wonder what the show I was watching was talking about in 2005 then. Also, I believe the next period of solar activity begins in 2012 based on some of the stuff I've read on the Net. I know the spots occur every 11 years but have not been paying much attention to anything else.

The show mentioned two events that are linked together. One was the solar flare which was followed by a "CME" which I think stands for "Coronal Mass Ejection". The one in 1859 took just under 18 hours to reach Earth when it normally takes 4 days. I will have to learn more about this.

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to thornhappy)

Profile

Post #: 3

RE: Something that Could Be Important - 2/21/2009 2:46:43 PM

MarsBonfire

Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

The scenario you're talking about is quite possible. However, we've found that the sun does tend to give off signs that a solar "burp" is about to take place. The charged particles that cause these sorts of disturbances travel much more slowly than light. So, if a CME were to take place, warnings would be sent out and utilities would have time to shunt off the excess charge. There would still be excess damage to the electrical infrastructure, sure. But I don't think it would be "back to the stone age."

If you're the type who likes to read stuff that keeps him awake at night, I'd suggest getting copies of "Death From the Skies" by Dr. Phil Plait, and a book called "Red Zone" about biological dangers.

Sleep tight! :)

(in reply to anthrosub)

Profile

Post #: 4

RE: Something that Could Be Important - 2/21/2009 2:49:38 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

And do read these types of books late at night so that your subconscious will have a chance to create scenarios of catastrophic magnitude.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

Profile

Post #: 5

RE: Something that Could Be Important - 2/21/2009 2:59:26 PM

thornhappy

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

Jeez, you're a mean one!

Oh yeah, IEEE Spectrum had a major article on Hydro-Quebec along with the damage done in the Northeast due to high geomagnetically induced current. It dumped DC into AC transformers and took down a multi-million dollar one. Not only was that sucker expensive, it took something like a year to make!

Makes ya wonder if there was warranty service...

< Message edited by thornhappy -- 2/21/2009 3:02:11 PM >

(in reply to Vendaval)

Profile

Post #: 6

RE: Something that Could Be Important - 2/21/2009 3:01:40 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Telegraph wires were very primitive, essentially a bare conducter, and were very vulnerable to solar activity. Modern transmission lines and generator stations are not. We had a strong storm in 1989 and had some capacitor failures, most notably in Quebec, from the same sort of induction problems as were faced by the telegraphs in the 19th century but we had no generator failures and power was restored within about 24 hours in even the worst hit areas.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Profile

Post #: 7

RE: Something that Could Be Important - 2/21/2009 4:03:47 PM

anthrosub

Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline

Well, just to get everyone in sync, I'm not the doom and gloom type and only pay attention to things that have some good evidence behind them. From some of the replies here, there doesn't seem much to be worried about. But there's always the chance another storm could occur that is even bigger than the 1859 event. One that would overwhelm even our modern technology. Remember...this is what is usually behind the real catastrophies. People not expecting the unexpected. The studies done on solar storms only goes back about 500 years. Who knows what cycles are in motion that we don't know about.

Remember the flood plain example. That one gets us all the time.

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to DomKen)

Profile

Post #: 8

RE: Something that Could Be Important - 2/21/2009 5:21:24 PM

MasterG2kTR

Posts: 6677
Joined: 8/7/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline

There is a simple solution to this potential problem. It would require governments of the world along with power companies to be notified by scientists of such catastrophic events as soon as they occur (and before reaching earth). That way we would have time to create intentional man-made blackouts which would ultimately protect power systems from damage, and can then be powered back up in less than 24 hours (in most cases), thus preventing the months of primitive living.

The big question in all this is whether or not anyone has the balls to make such a call. My gut instinct says that power companies will not agree to such common sense, because they are greedy and if they shut down even for a few hours they will lose revenue. I say better to err on the side of caution and lose a little cashflow, rather than make a huge mistake by playing the odds.

(in reply to anthrosub)

Profile

Post #: 9