High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 10:47:41 AM)

       Yahoo News:  Obama Plots Huge Railroad Expansion

      Now this is the kind of economic stimulus proposal I can get behind.  High speed rail is new infrastructure, something that will create new jobs and opportunities far beyond the construction workers and crews.  It will push our technology, spawning God knows what innovation elsewhere.

      I'm not sure what the snarking is about over the LA-Vegas route.  I suspect it is nothing but an ignorant knee-jerk from those determined to oppose President Obama automatically, on every topic.  "Disneyland to Lost Wages" is an excellent place to start building such a network.

     First off, the demand is there (whether the future consumers know it yet, or not).  This thing is going to have to turn a profit, and this is a location where it can.  These are two major western cities, with a huge expanse of inhospitable nothing between them.  One road, horribly congested.  It can be a 4 hour drive, or a 16 hour one, depending on traffic.  If we build it, they will ride. 

      LA-Vegas is also a great route to promote the new technology.  These are both tourist destinations, and firsthand stories will make their way back to other parts of the country as people do exactly the Disneyland/Vegas family vacation some want to sneer at.

     It also makes sense long term, if we are looking to develop a transcontinental network (and I think we should be).  Los Angeles is the second largest city in the country, Las Vegas is the obvious hub for getting over the Rockies to Denver, and a destination in it's own right.  The lines draw pretty well to Salt Lake, and then on to Portland and Seattle.  (San Francisco will probably have to wait a while before getting a connection in Mojave, or maybe a Tahoe/Vegas spur.  Even if the Sierra Nevada weren't such a serious challenge to cross, a more direct route would go through the areas where we tested atomic bombs.)

     Considering that we are setting out to learn how to do this, LA-Vegas is a good place to learn.  No massive mountains to scale (the proposed route even avoids the Cajon Pass completely), the crews won't be getting rained out very often, and while I'm certain the affected property owners and environmental extremists will shriek at every possible opportunity, much of the route is over flat, empty land. 

     Where I find the largest concerns for such a project is in the muskeg of regulations and bureaurocracy it will have to pass through.  I haven't seen much indication that this administration is likely to start slashing that, but after seeing the anti-war bundle, and now the human rights activists get tossed under the bus, perhaps the environmental extremists will get to join them.  I can hope.




FullCircle -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 11:01:59 AM)

Not to mention less planes in the air floating about not a bad thing either.




YoursMistress -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 11:05:45 AM)

Bullet train to Vegas?  G-OBAMA!!!




TheHeretic -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 11:16:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress
G-OBAMA!!!



      

It is amzing what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit.




dcnovice -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 11:18:44 AM)

quote:

It is amzing what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit.


Reagan kept a plaque saying that on his desk, I believe.




YoursMistress -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 11:28:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

It is amzing what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit.


Reagan kept a plaque saying that on his desk, I believe.


Obama, inspired by Reagan?  Just one more reason our greatest president should have his likeness immortalized on Mt. Rushmore. 

yours




DomKen -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 11:36:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

It is amzing what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit.


Reagan kept a plaque saying that on his desk, I believe.


Obama, inspired by Reagan?  Just one more reason our greatest president should have his likeness immortalized on Mt. Rushmore. 

yours


the 2 greatest presidents we've ever had are already up there and there is no room for one of the worst no matter how good his flacks are.




SpinnerofTales -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 11:51:27 AM)

Gee..is this the same bullet train that the Republicans in congress and the senate pointed at as a huge piece of pork? The same train that they used to show how wasteful and inefficient the stimulus bill was? Nahhh...it must have been a different bullet train.


But way to go, Heritic.....it's good to see you actually found something you like in a bill that the current administration put together. 8 billion down, 792 billion to argue over :grin:





GreedyTop -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 12:44:08 PM)

I'd love to see more rail service.  I love riding trains!!




TheHeretic -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 12:46:15 PM)

<Having dirty thoughts ...  biting tongue>




GreedyTop -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 12:54:14 PM)

*snort*




maybemaybenot -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 12:55:36 PM)

Me too, GreedyTop !
It takes me longer to take the train into Boston, than it does to drive. I take the train anyway.[:)] Beides the obvious gas conservation and parking benefits, if I go with friends we can relax and chat, play games, snooze and have a nice relaxing trip into town. Then there is the return trip, no worries about getting pulled over if you happen to have one too many.




MarsBonfire -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 1:22:51 PM)

I've been for more mass transit since the frakkin Carter Administration. How is it that we allowed the automotive industry to take over the railroads, and fuck over our ability to hop a train to either coast? Meanwhile, Japan and Europe build bullets that make our Amtrack liners look like turn of the century steam belchers in comparison...

I watch shows on PBS and on the RFD channels all the time when there are classic train retrospectives on. Imagine what it was like to travel across this beautiful country in one of those greenhouse cars, letting someone else do the driving, getting up and getitng something to eat in the resteraunt car whenever you felt like it... not having to desperately search for a clean looking gas station to take a bathroom break at...  All for 1/3 the cost of an airline ticket... and you don't even have to be strip searched before getting onboard!

All I can say about this is... ABOUT FUCKING TIME!




WomenDontRule -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 2:39:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I'd love to see more rail service.  I love riding trains!!


Having run them (freight) for a living, all I can say is the LAST organization you want running any sort of high speed rail operation is Amtrak. The best thing Mr. O can do is kill Amtrak dead as a doornail and start over. Current long distance Amtrak trains (I've run more than a few...) are the greatest waste of taxpayer money there is, barring NONE.

Then, he needs to make sure this new high speed network does not share track with freight trains OR commuter trains - make it a dedicated right of way, as the Japanese and French do (I've ridden both the Bullets and TGV) and no matter how much the freight railroads or commuter agencies whine about it, don't even let them run locals on it or "market" industrial property along it, or claim it will benefit their city traffic etc...etc...etc. TFB

.



.




GreedyTop -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 2:43:39 PM)

My problem with the current rail system is that if I want to take a train from Tampa to Atlanta, I have to go to DC, spend a night, then come back down, unless I want to make two changes in NC.




corysub -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 2:49:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress

Bullet train to Vegas?  G-OBAMA!!!


I think a high speed rail is a great idea..but not between Disneyland and the Las Vegas casino's. Another thread presented a challange for ideas..and I think MHD rail is a wonderful, albeit where have we been for 40 years, project for the country....starting in the northeast..where there is a huge potential for this type of transportation to actually "make money"...a unique idea for a government enterprise..."profit".




WomenDontRule -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 2:51:46 PM)

The reason it works in Europe and Japan, is two things.....

1, The abscence of anything equivalent to the US Interstate Highway system (save for occasional roads like the Autobahn) or any lobbying for it.... and 2. generally shorter travel distances and a lack of sparsely settled regions that cannot generate ridership.

Even with all that, all such high speed rail lines are highly subsidized....but unlike Amtrak's pork barrel long distance trains, the subsidized lines in Europe and Japan provide a useful service that people want and in reality, need - not a nostalgic and energy-inefficient days-long excursion train trip for rail buffs and retirees. Few Amtrak passengers on long distance trains do the entire route - most full trip riders are riders between city pairs between the ends or the afore mentioned route (if there are enough of them, they deserve a high speed line of their own...)  or rail buffs enjoying the trip on their favorite mode of transport. Don't even get me started on the rail buffs....




TreasureKY -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 2:55:39 PM)

To be honest, I've ridden passenger trains and I've found them pretty much on par with buses.  That is, crowded, smelly, noisy and all around a lousy way to travel any distance.  [&:]

I'll admit that my experiences may be limited and unique.  Nevertheless, I did not find them even remotely reminiscent of the romanticized idea of a comfortable and leisurely ride amid scenic splendor. 

Now, Firm and I did enjoy a wonderful evening aboard a dinner train.  The surroundings were luxurious, the scenery breathtaking and the service impeccable... but we ended up where we started from so I'd hardly recommend that as an efficient way to get where you're going.  [;)]




Vendaval -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 2:58:07 PM)

Yeah, the first time I did the road trip from So Cal to Vegas it was a 3 day weekend (Labor Day ?) and there were half a dozen conventions, car shows and the like going on.  We crawled across the desert for hours and only had one of the f......ing!  Thomas square maps for engineers pieces of crap in the car.  That grid system may work in a metro area where you can tell where the streets over-lap but it is a useless when trying to identify random lines of country highways and supposed "short cuts".  Just for kicks and gigles try reading it in semi-darkness with a flashlight and a dumb-ass yelling for clues.
 
All aboard the Sin City Rail Express!  [sm=dancer.gif]




WomenDontRule -> RE: High Speed Rail: All Aboard! (2/22/2009 2:59:08 PM)

Strangely enough, the most recent US Government venture into railroading DID eventually make a profit - so much so that it was able to be (appropriately) sold/spun off to other private carriers. What used to be Conrail, was sold off to Norfolk Southern and CSX, some 24 years after the government bit the bullet and consolidated a number of bankrupt northeast railroads into one system, kept it afloat with tax $ (...taxpayer lobbyists squealed like pigs when Conrail was first proposed, with the usual accompanying "doom" prophesy....but were proven very wrong...) while rationalizing and improving it, then sold it as a profitable venture - as it should have done.

There are also other technologies that need to be explored for this in some places, not necessarily only flanged wheels on rails. The most promising may be MAGLEV....

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress

Bullet train to Vegas?  G-OBAMA!!!


I think a high speed rail is a great idea..but not between Disneyland and the Las Vegas casino's. Another thread presented a challange for ideas..and I think MHD rail is a wonderful, albeit where have we been for 40 years, project for the country....starting in the northeast..where there is a huge potential for this type of transportation to actually "make money"...a unique idea for a government enterprise..."profit".




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