Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom

Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (Full Version)

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TwilightsKitten -> Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/22/2009 10:05:03 PM)
I had a discussion with a friend recently, and it brought up a few thoughts that I'd like to share and get opinions on. Now, keep this in mind, this is merely opinion. Our discussion was based on that some activities should not be done by a Dom/Domme as they are seemingly submissive in nature. Or so was his opinion. One discussed activity was holding someone. For him, to be held is a submissive activity, and to me, its merely being the bottom in an activity. Another example is laying with someone in bed. For him, he believes that certain ways of doing it are submissive in nature, such as laying side by side, with one holding the other, and the one being held is submissive. To me, however, its merely being the bottom again. We had a long list of such examples, for each he thought it was a sign of submissiveness, and to me, it was just bottoming. I'm sure there are probably a few but, I don't think coming home after a long day and wanting to curl up with someone makes you submissive, just the bottom for that specific instance. I guess I'm just curious what other people think on the matter. I know Dom/Dommes vary, some don't ever want to be the bottom, some like doing both, and so on. I guess I'm just curious if we just see things differently, or if I am missing something. I realize somethings definately come off as submissive but, I don't think things like that do. They are seemingly harmless and just bottoming to me.

DeathinRevelry -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/22/2009 10:31:24 PM)
I tend to agree with you about holding not being less dominant than anything else. It's like saying that penetration isn't a dominant activity, when it may be if that's what the dominant involved wants. When it all comes down to it, D/s is really defined by the people involved. And really, if it's an order or request that you make of your pet, and they're doing it to please you, then how is holding or snuggling ever bad?

vagabondduo -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/22/2009 10:40:34 PM)
quote: One discussed activity was holding someone. For him, to be held is a submissive activity, and to me, its merely being the bottom in an activity. HUH?? So when those who are not into BDSM get held, that shows they are submissive or bottoming? quote: he believes that certain ways of doing it are submissive in nature, such as laying side by side, with one holding the other, and the one being held is submissive. To me, however, its merely being the bottom again. Again...I believe these are activities that people who share a bed do. Why do you feel the need to categorize a simple human action as bottoming or submitting? Sometimes he holds me. Sometimes I hold him. Even though we have a D/s relationship, the holding or laying side by side has nothing to do with bottoming or submitting. quote: I don't think coming home after a long day and wanting to curl up with someone makes you submissive, just the bottom for that specific instance. People who are not into BDSM do this all the time. There need not be any topping/bottoming/submission/dominance connotations in the action. Not every activity between two people has an ulterior motive such as bottoming or submitting. Sometimes the activity is done for other needs such as the need to feel close or the need to touch or the need to be wanted or whatever. Activities in themselves are NOT bottoming or submitting. It is the motive, the mentality behind an action that can make it submissive or bottoming.

TwilightsKitten -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/22/2009 10:41:33 PM)
Yeah, my feeling is it lies in the eyes of the beholder so to speak. Using your example, penetration could be dominant, or submissive if the guy is tied to the bed and his Mistress climbs on him. I just don't think an activity can be generalized out of context and circumstance. I just don't think you can say anyone being held is submissive. You can say they are the bottom for the activity, but thats about it without knowing the rest of the story. But perhaps its just 2 differing viewpoints and neither me or him are wrong. I honestly just wanted to see what opinions would be offered on this subject, as I find most people here to have honest and interesting ideas that I'm always curious about hearing.

MaamJay -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/22/2009 11:02:26 PM)
I truly don't see specific acts or behaviours as D/s/T or b! A D who loves the sensation of being spanked could order their s to spank them and that D is still in control as they would be likely ordering the s to do it harder, faster, slower etc. With sex, it could easily be assumed that in a Domme/male sub situation the "Dominant" way to have sex would be the Mistress on top. No way in My book, then I have to do all the work LOL! I will happily command him to get up there and do the work as I tell him to and not to stop till I say so! The specific acts in the OP ... no way would I attach any D/s/T/b attributes. I think the OP's friend has a bit of baggage to work through. Maam Jay aka violet[A]

TwilightsKitten -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/22/2009 11:12:24 PM)
Oh, I realize not every activity can be labeled, or even should be. It was merely how our discussion went. And for the purpose of our conversation, top is merely the person doing, and the bottom receiving. That was the definition he used for it. As to my friend having baggage...I think he might be trying to act a little too macho around me, since I freely admit to my cuddly side. I was honestly just curious if people attach tags to activities or if it truly is just in the eye of the beholder.

utahSteelsandi -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/22/2009 11:23:52 PM)
deleted (I really need to pay more attention before I post)

SteelofUtah -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/22/2009 11:28:44 PM)
I like being held, it is comforting, but I do not believe it to be submissive. Webster defined Submissive as: Main Entry: sub·mis·sive Pronunciation: s&b-'mis-iv Function: adjective : characterized by tendencies to yield to the will or authority ofothers submissive personality with strong parental attachments> —sub·mis·sive·ness noun Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. I do not believe when I am beinh held I fall into this catagory I do however believe it falls under: comforted adjective made comfortable or more comfortable in a time of distress; "the news make her feel comforted" To soothe in time of affliction or distress. To ease physically; relieve. A condition or feeling of pleasurable ease, well-being, and contentment. Solace in time of grief or fear. Help; assistance: gave comfort to the enemy. One that brings or provides comfort. The capacity to give physical ease and well-being: enjoying the comfort of my favorite chair. Chiefly Southern & Lower Northern U.S. A quilted bedcover; a comforter. WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

TwilightsKitten -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/22/2009 11:36:56 PM)
Good point Steel

Voodali -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/22/2009 11:55:54 PM)
If cuddling is bottoming, then I guess I like bottoming from the top. I disagree with the notion that Dom/mes must at all times be unfeeling, cold, ruthless bitches. If I were to adopt that persona 24/7, I would be catering to the sub's kink 24/7 and as a result become exhausted and depleted. Cuddling and closeness are some of my #1 needs. It seems only natural that a sub should indulge all my needs. Besides, if I cuddle him after creating welts, I can remind him of those welts.

DesFIP -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/23/2009 3:45:17 AM)
So if the top is the person doing and the bottom is the person receiving, then obviously he can't ever receive oral sex. Or ask his sub to rub his feet when they hurt. Or have them wash his back in the shower. Here it's really easy. When he says "Honey do this" then he is exerting his dominance because he is making the decision. Doesn't matter if it's "honey, get us some ice cream" and I enjoy it as much as he does. It's all based on who gets to make the decision. Even if he tells me to decide, the power is still in his hands because he decided I had to choose.

Knite064 -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/23/2009 4:38:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwilightsKitten I had a discussion with a friend recently, and it brought up a few thoughts that I'd like to share and get opinions on. Now, keep this in mind, this is merely opinion. Our discussion was based on that some activities should not be done by a Dom/Domme as they are seemingly submissive in nature. Or so was his opinion. One discussed activity was holding someone. For him, to be held is a submissive activity, and to me, its merely being the bottom in an activity. Another example is laying with someone in bed. For him, he believes that certain ways of doing it are submissive in nature, such as laying side by side, with one holding the other, and the one being held is submissive. To me, however, its merely being the bottom again. We had a long list of such examples, for each he thought it was a sign of submissiveness, and to me, it was just bottoming. I'm sure there are probably a few but, I don't think coming home after a long day and wanting to curl up with someone makes you submissive, just the bottom for that specific instance. I guess I'm just curious what other people think on the matter. I know Dom/Dommes vary, some don't ever want to be the bottom, some like doing both, and so on. I guess I'm just curious if we just see things differently, or if I am missing something. I realize somethings definately come off as submissive but, I don't think things like that do. They are seemingly harmless and just bottoming to me. For me the categories are too limited (if indeed there should be any categories at all) If my submissive comes home from a hard days work and i can see a foot rub would help relax her i would happily give her one(i picked giving a foot rub as it could be easily described as a very submissive act) would i feel submissive doing that? nope i really would nt would i feel i was bottoming? no not in the slightest would i feel i was caring for someone i cared about?yep i would Two extremes : slave gives a foot rub to master/mistress because slave is a good slave and doing as he/she is instructed........master/mistress gives a foot rub to look after there propery both spiritualy and physically....same act different motivations behind the act Its all a mindset and ones own motivation for doing anything in this lifestyle that denotes whether an act is submissive or not.......whilst categories help give a very broad outline to someones orientation things get way to complicated to label as you and your friend attempted. be well

TwilightsKitten -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/23/2009 4:43:58 AM)
Yeah, I'm thinking its really just in the eye of the beholder and trying to label it wasn't exactly a good idea. But, in our discussion, there wasn't much choice other then to try and call it something.

Knite064 -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/23/2009 4:57:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwilightsKitten Yeah, I'm thinking its really just in the eye of the beholder and trying to label it wasn't exactly a good idea. But, in our discussion, there wasn't much choice other then to try and call it something. Labels are like dogs....they help identify the breed of dog but not whether the dog will bite you on the ass or not. Enjoy your day :)

eyesopened -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/23/2009 5:05:30 AM)
My Master is Dominant. Period. He doesn't become submissive to me if He wants to be held, if He wants me to sleep at His side, all these things are His choice, His wants, His desires. My job is to see to His happiness. He has assigned me with the primary task of making sure He always presents Himself at His best. That means making sure He takes medicine or goes to the doctor is He is sick, that means making sure He is comforted if He's had a hard day at work, or making sure He has His slave available in His bed. There are no Dominant or submissive acts, Dominant or submissive is a state of being. I would venture to suggest that someone who is worried that placing their slave on top during sex makes them submissive, is probably submissive already.

SirJ40 -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/23/2009 7:27:19 AM)
The SuperHuman Dominant doesn't really exist.. we're all human. If the OP wanted to take the concept to the extreme, then loving a sub would be submissive.. because doing loving things would be submissive. And that is BS. If I choose to treat her with love and tenderness, that's just part of a healthy relationship. Some people express these feelings differently, or experience them differently, but they are simply feelings nonetheless. If I've had a shitty day at work and come home and want a hug, I'm not being submissive.. I'm wanting the comfort and familiarity of the embrace of the woman who loves Me. And for someone who is truly in need of comfort.. say, maybe they've experienced a death of a loved one or something equally horrid... then it's about people caring for each other, not BDSM or D/s or any of that. And where's the balance if I never show a kindness, or treat her like she's special? She IS special, to Me... and part of being in the relationship is letting her know that she's dear to Me. I can always balance that with a healthy flogging later.

feydeplume -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/23/2009 7:39:41 AM)
I have nothing productive to say on this. I am thrilled to see so many people putting their relationship, their love, their human needs, before strict social roles. I mean it's that what was wrong with "marriage" before woman's lib and men's lib? embracing that people come before the social role. But anyhoo... I am giggling my ass off since to me Top and Bottom are SM labels meant only for defining who is receiving and who is giving in a particular scene. So unless there is, and i have no doubt that there is, whole new levels of sado-masochism that involved loving touches, the actual debate of terms is one of apples and oranges. PS in old school SM Bottoms were in charge of the scene, not the top really so even looked that THAT way, getting hugs is an "i want" act rather than "may i do for you" act.

SassySarijane -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/23/2009 7:45:12 AM)
As far as I'm concerned the act itself isn't dominant or submissive in and of itself. The mindset of the one doing it can make it either, or just an act done no matter what it is. Quick example off the top of my head: A submissive male completely bathes his mistress, dries her, brushes her hair, etc. Is that a submissive act? A dominant male completely bathes his submissive, dries her, brushes her hair, etc. Is that also a submissive act? Both are doing the exact same thing, both want to, both get a lot of pleasure from it. So what is the act, submissive or dominant?

Sfortzando -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/23/2009 7:46:13 AM)
"I'm just curious if we just see things differently..." Ding ding ding!!! You just nailed it. Everyone is going to have a different opinion regarding what is submissive behavior and what is dominant. As far as I'm concerned, anything a Domme initiates, whether ist's a spanking or a cuddle session is a dominant activity because she's the one calling the shots. But, Dommes shouldn't be cuddled because it's submissive? Gimme a break! Dommes are people, too, and sometimes people like to be held. Doesn't make 'em any less dominant. In fact, I'd be little bit freaked out if my Domme didn't want me to hold her once in a while.

Andalusite -> RE: Thoughts on D/s and Top/Bottom (2/23/2009 9:30:03 AM)
Holding someone while laying next to them in bed is generally vanilla, not D/s or BDSM, unless you're holding their wrists or doing something else to make it fun. It's lovely, and I like including it in relationships, on either/both sides, but it's not inherently kinky. Someone can be a dominant masochist, a submissive sadist, or a pure top/bottom switch without any power exchange occuring at all. I felt submissively toward one other switch before, even when I was actively topping him (ie. flogging/paddling/tying him up). I specifically complied with any changes he wanted to make, but it had more to do with how I felt about/reacted to him.

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