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Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/19/2006 7:31:29 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		Well, I've been prowling around now for awhile, and can someone explain what the conceptual difference between being collared, and putting a ring on a womans finger in marriage. It seems the differences aren't that much. It seems to me both make a commitment to each other, both in the case of people seeking long term relationships plan to be together forever. It seems that the ring has been replaced by the collar but beyond that what's the difference. So, why not just get married? I mean you could write your marriage vows however you want.

I'm not saying it's bad or good, it just perplexes me, that it appears another form of marriage like union seems to exist in the bdsm community. So there must be a reason why one would prefer to be collared and not married? Is it just the legal part, or what?
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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/19/2006 8:08:55 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		It's a -lot- different in our house, where there are multiple dominant individuals and multiple servants, and where the relationship may have no romantic connotations whatsoever, or may be -very- romantic, or may be romantic with some individuals and not with others, or may be strictly service based, a spiritual journey, or (something new that I'm enjoying) an opportunity to relax and train our very first human "pet", as in a "puppy-girl"... and where being owned is heart-deep, with or without a physical collar in place.

I suppose a marriage could contain some of these aspects, but it would be a -very- unusual marriage that would contain all of them, and even then, the marriage could only (in the US) be between a man and a woman -- everything else that makes us who we are couldn't be described under the term "marriage".

As far as commitment, marriage is sort of wrapped around commitment, but I've known individuals in this lifestyle for whom the collar went on for playtime with whomever they were inclined to play with and came off after playtime with absolutely -no- long term commitment at all. Despite the questions of whether marriage these days is plagued by lack of commitment, very few people who would bother to wear a wedding ring would put it on just to -play- being married and take it off to go to work or get on with the rest of their day (though I suppose that some folks might go that far to check into a motel for some afternoon fun on occasion).

What it basically boils down to is that marriage is an established societal institution, with certain expectations about what it means. The collar has none of those expectations on a societal level, and it is left to the individuals in the relationship to determine whether it is a commitment, a decoration, or something else.

Lady Zephyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Well, I've been prowling around now for awhile, and can someone explain what the conceptual difference between being collared, and putting a ring on a womans finger in marriage. It seems the differences aren't that much. It seems to me both make a commitment to each other, both in the case of people seeking long term relationships plan to be together forever. It seems that the ring has been replaced by the collar but beyond that what's the difference. So, why not just get married? I mean you could write your marriage vows however you want.

I'm not saying it's bad or good, it just perplexes me, that it appears another form of marriage like union seems to exist in the bdsm community. So there must be a reason why one would prefer to be collared and not married? Is it just the legal part, or what?



_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/19/2006 8:20:46 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not saying it's bad or good, it just perplexes me, that it appears another form of marriage like union seems to exist in the bdsm community. So there must be a reason why one would prefer to be collared and not married? Is it just the legal part, or what?


Another thing to consider is that a good number of people are already married, so unless they want to commit bigomy, marriage is not an option.

While, in theory ::I'm already married/collared:: I could wear the collar of someone whom I would never marry, but I would never marry someone whose collar I wouldn't wear.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/19/2006 8:24:22 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		I see what you're saying, I should have been more specific.

I guess i was putting in my own "Ideal" relationship, without stating that. Basicly, I'm more refering to a man and one woman, Long term relationship, that is 24/7 not just play. I guess, I've just seen alot of these type of relationships up here and can't figure out why a collar and not a ring. When the situation is one on one, and the couples been together, for awhile. My only guess is a disdain for government endorsed relationships or a quick out if things don't go well, but that would seem to diminish the commitment aspect to me.

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/19/2006 8:25:15 PM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Rings don't make it legal. Paperwork filed with the state makes it legal.

Heck, you don't even really need a ring in'f ya don't want one.

You could even use a collar instead.

fergus

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/19/2006 8:42:00 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Well, I've been prowling around now for awhile, and can someone explain what the conceptual difference between being collared, and putting a ring on a womans finger in marriage. It seems the differences aren't that much. It seems to me both make a commitment to each other, both in the case of people seeking long term relationships plan to be together forever. It seems that the ring has been replaced by the collar but beyond that what's the difference. So, why not just get married? I mean you could write your marriage vows however you want.

I'm not saying it's bad or good, it just perplexes me, that it appears another form of marriage like union seems to exist in the bdsm community. So there must be a reason why one would prefer to be collared and not married? Is it just the legal part, or what?



To me ring=partnership and collar=ownership (although quite frankly its mostly used to signify going steady I find).

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/19/2006 9:05:25 PM   
LessThanKate


Posts: 20
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline 		I like what wildfleurs said. It's more about the symbolic connotations than anything, I find. A collar has intense "ownership" imagery related to it, which is what I find the most pleasing about being collared myself.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/19/2006 9:25:42 PM   
Rayne58


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		To me there's no difference, Master and I are engaged so I wear His ring and we plan to be officially married sometime this year. We've been living together two years now and all that's lacking is the official piece of paper.

We are fully committed to each other, the marriage will be mainly for legal reasons i.e. so that I am official next of kin in case of medical emergencies etc.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/19/2006 10:06:03 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Most women like having more commitment in there relationship. They also like wearing more jewlry

Slaves can come and go but wives normally stick around a little longer in most cases. Marriage puts a little more security into the relationship. A sub can say "He's my Master, my husband, the man I'm going to be with for the rest of my life" It just means a little more. Because of the legality, it puts more value that the two of you want to be and will be a family through the good times and the bad.

Other than that, most subs don't wear there collar 24/7 . Even if they did, not everyone would get the idea that they belong to someone. That's why most people look for a ring. Both the BDSM and the Vanilla population can see that a person is with someone.

Now let's look at one last thing

You can get a good durable collar for $50

A nice ring,

Suck it up, don't look cheap.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/19/2006 11:51:56 PM   
CmotDribbler


Posts: 83
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: canada
Status: offline 		When i put my ring on my Fiance's finger it will bind us as equals, as partners, as lovers.
When i put my collar around her neck, it binds her as my possesion, my slave, my Kitten.
We are both, both dom and sub, and equals, and i wish to express both.

_____________________________

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Doc. Emit Brown

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/20/2006 2:10:31 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		i have a collar and a ring. The collar came first. When Master and i got married, the legal recognition was an added extra to our relationship. I now get mail saying Mr and Mrs (Insert *our* surname here) and I'm really proud to carry his name, i now get referred to as *his* wife by even the video shop man. Marriage to me means a lot, i like being recognised as "his" in every which way that i can. My slavery to him is a private thing. My marriage to him is public.
I'd love to live in a world where if i went to the pharmacy they would recognise me as Masters slave, but this is not the case, but i can be recognised as his wife.

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/20/2006 4:40:46 AM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		I have wondered too at what the exact difference is. I plan to live with my Dom starting next month. We are giving our relationship a year to grow and develop into what we want. If at the end of that year, we still want to be together we plan to have a collaring ceremony and make a new contract stating his forever ownership of me.

This is what he wants to do and I do love the idea and want it too. However, I am also a traditionalist in many regards and part of me wants that ring on my finger and his last name. To me the forever commitment comes from the heart and it doesn’t make it anymore permanent if it’s a ring or a collar.

In my perfect imagination, I will get both and we will have a combined wedding and collaring ceremony.




_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/20/2006 5:53:17 AM   
MysticalPhoenix


Posts: 212
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Kelloggsville, Vanilla County MI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
I guess i was putting in my own "Ideal" relationship, without stating that. Basicly, I'm more refering to a man and one woman, Long term relationship, that is 24/7 not just play. I guess, I've just seen alot of these type of relationships up here and can't figure out why a collar and not a ring.


I guess we are just hanging out with different folks, because many of the bdsm people I know IRL are married, and there is a collar as well as a ring.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
When the situation is one on one, and the couples been together, for awhile. My only guess is a disdain for government endorsed relationships or a quick out if things don't go well, but that would seem to diminish the commitment aspect to me.


I think you are looking at it from the point of view that a ring is better than a collar, and more of a commitment than a collar. Some of us see it the opposite way. Ask anyone who has been divorced, marriages are very easily dissolved. They have their place in my view, for legal and insurance benefit purposes.

For me, the collar is the highest level of commitment. But it's just a symbol. It's the commitment that the symbol represents that matters.

Sure the symbol can be less expensive than a ring. It doesn't have to be. I've seen wedding ring sets for less than what my boy's collar cost.

Regardless of the symbol (the ring or the collar) the type of vows involved (collaring or traditional wedding, or something combining the two), all relationships can end, and all relationships can be lifelong.

_____________________________

---------------------------------------------------------
Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are.

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/20/2006 6:25:21 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Well, I've been prowling around now for awhile, and can someone explain what the conceptual difference between being collared, and putting a ring on a womans finger in marriage. It seems the differences aren't that much. It seems to me both make a commitment to each other, both in the case of people seeking long term relationships plan to be together forever. It seems that the ring has been replaced by the collar but beyond that what's the difference. So, why not just get married? I mean you could write your marriage vows however you want.

For me the difference is that marriage has an expectation that authority and decisions will be a shared endeavor, with no one person in the relationship having final say in decisions or consequences.

A Ds type relationship has an expectation of authority on a person and decisions will be assigned, with one person having final say in many/most/all decisions and consequences.

Many Ds people do get married but consider their Ds primary over the marriage. I find it puzzling why Ds people choose to get married for reasons other than legal or medical convenience, but many people still want the romantic classic trappings.

And you are right, one can certainly be married and have that considered the entering into a Ds relationship as well. But the relationships themselves tend to be different animals.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/20/2006 7:24:11 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I'd say that both rings and collars are traditional pieces of jewellery (one for her neck and the other for her pinky). I know that under some circumstances it is not wise to wear a collar but hey, there are times that you need to remove rings too. Other than my Wife/Free Companion, any girl I'm likely to have an intimate relationship with will look georgious with her neck decorated with a circular piece of Gorean steel.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/20/2006 7:38:51 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		~hugs Iron Bear~

i am a Catholic; a wedding in my Church is a sacrament which i would have no grounds to annul. i want that; to stand before God and promise myself to my One. But i also want the collar; signifying i have submitted to Him. Marriage no longer signifies such submision, if it ever did.

candystripper

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/20/2006 10:11:18 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		For us, the collar is a symbol of our commitment to each other in the type of relationship we've chosen. For me, it's a reminder that I belong to him. For him, it's a nifty thing to pull on.

Our relationship is there, independant of physical symbols. I wear the collar 'cuase it's a fetish for me, and a way for us to show who we are to others. Also because it helps me stay in the headspace I like. He likes how it looks and likes the way I am when I wear one that can't come off.

The ring, for us, is a legal commitment which gets us all the benifits of the law and gets my family off my back. We'll be getting married eventually because we want the legal stuff, and because it'll make myfamily leave me the heck alone.

Our relationship is going to exist independant of the BDSM elemetns, though. We are together, first, as people who care about each other and will be in each other's lives for a long time. Though it's not likely, I suppose if the collar ever left, the ring would stay. I think we'd find an arangment that enabled me to get the ownreship dynamic I need while keeping that ring and our commitment to each other.

_____________________________

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/20/2006 10:33:45 AM   
MasterRobert1


Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		That is exactly the problem: too many people DON'T know the difference. And there is a difference.

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/20/2006 10:45:24 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		I dunno. I don't believe there has to be. In many marriages, even without BDSM a ring -is- a collar. In many BDSM relationships, a collar is a symbol of commitment, but that's all.

I am admitedly and unashamadly of the "it is what it is to the parties invovled" school though.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

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RE: Ring or collar, what's the difference? - 1/20/2006 3:36:47 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		"I think you are looking at it from the point of view that a ring is better than a collar, and more of a commitment than a collar."

I don't think one is better than the other, was just trying to understand the different viewpoints, and there seems to already be about four different views on it.

I guess, my confusion came in because to me, I would only marry, where there would be no pratical difference between the collar and the ring. I wouldn't marry anyone unless they were comfortable living in the same arrangement as the collar would provide. So, maybe that's why there are differences. Some said a wife in marriage is "equal" and a "slave" isn't equal " I wouldn't treat my wife differently and see them both to represent the same long term commitments, she'd still be the same thing. I'm not a romantic either, someone said something about that, I'm just wired for monogamy, and am very commitment oriented. So, a more casual collaring just didn't occur to me as some suggested it is in some circumstances, or that I'd conceivably marry a woman that would be in a different position than if she was collared. I just wouldn't marry a women that wasn't comfortable with that.

So, I guess in my circumstance they are the same, but for alot of people it has a dominance versus submission tilt and marriage is more a equal footing. Whereas, I believe marriage should be the same thing(dominance versus submission).

Okay, I think I understand the viewpoints better, like everything it seems involved in bdsm. It seems it ranges from show prop to being more of a commitment than marriage.

(in reply to MysticalPhoenix)
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