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Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 6:18:51 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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I found it very interesting that some of the conservative voices on this board spoke out in favor of legalization of marijuana. Not that I think conservatives don't get high. After all, they did elect Dan Quale and Bush the Younger. But I wonder how many of you out there know the reason that marijuana is illegal in the first place. Since I was asked by a very delightful co-user to do so, allow me to spin the tale.....

Marijuana comes from the hemp plant. In addition to a very interesting smokeable, the hemp plant can also be used to produce paper, textiles, bio degradable plastic and fuel. In short, a very useful little plant. Also, because it is a weed, it can grow damn near anywhere with minimum fuss and muss from farmers.

In the early 20th century, a great number of uses were known by the general public but the recreational drug aspects were known mainly among blacks and Mexicans on this continent. Keep this in mind, because it becomes important later.

Now let us focus on Mr. William Randolph Hearst. Mr. Hearst was an enormously wealthy and powerful capitalist who derived a very large part of his vast wealth from timber and newspapers.

As you well know, timber is used in the production of paper. It is neither as cheap, renewable or efficient as paper made from Hemp but it does make paper. Therefore, the idea of paper being made from hemp was not a very good one to Mr. Hearst. Further, the textile and other products obtainable from hemp could have possibly interfered with the immense fortunes of a family of Mr. Hearst's very good friends, the DuPonts.

Well, Mr. Hearst wasn't about to take that lying down. He proceded to appeal to the reason of the government and the American people by using his newspapers to publish story after story about dope crazed Mexicans rampaging, raping and killing (although not always in that order) innocent white peope. Let us examine some of the fine, rational arguments Mr. Hearst put forth in his splendid publications:

"Users of marijuana become STIMULATED as they inhale the drug and are LIKELY TO DO ANYTHING. Most crimes of violence in this section, especially in country districts are laid to users of that drug."

"Was it marijuana, the new Mexican drug, that nerved the murderous arm of Clara Phillips when she hammered out her victim's life in Los Angeles?... THREE-FOURTHS OF THE CRIMES of violence in this country today are committed by DOPE SLAVES -- that is a matter of cold record."

The government, at this time, had it's own problem. Prohibition had just ended. This left the government with a large force of law enforcement personel who's only special skill was the detection and confiscation of a mind altering, dangerous drug...alchohol. When Mr. Hearst came to the government with this stunning array of logic, the government, as was his wont at the time, said "Hey, he's rich, he MUST know what he's talking about."

And so the partnership was sealed. Marijuana was made illegal, starting the trend to criminializing drugs. Billions began to be spent in the intradiction of the marijuana trade and the incarcaration of it's practitioners and the dangerous (to Mr. Heart's wallet) hemp industry was stopped in it's tracks.

So, when you think of how wonderful it is to let those men of vision who have ammassed great wealth run the government and make policy for the country, when you think of how the effects of well practiced capitalism is the only path to the land of the lotus eaters, may I suggest you go find your nearest cop, light a joint, and use your time in jail to think of the tax revenues lost, the technology unrealized and the money wasted on enforcing these particular laws and maybe by the time you are released, you will have realized a thing or two.


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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 6:52:00 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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I find your views of conservatives very disinteresting, apparently you watch to much tv, and rely on the CNN, MSNBC, FOX definitions for everything. Conservatives are as broad a mixture as Liberals. It shows extreme ignorance that you tend to lump that entire segment into a monolithic beast to be villified as evil.

Hell, I'm a conservative. I'm for legal pot, legal prostitution, small military, small government, HUGE personal freedom. I fit quite nicely into several definitions of conservatism.

Anyway, there is absolutely nothing shocking about some conservatives thinking pot should be legal. As there is nothing shocking about some Liberals thinking it should be illegal. There are by the way, tons of self-proclaimed Liberals that think it should be illegal.

Get shocked over that.


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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 6:55:24 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I found it very interesting that some of the conservative voices on this board spoke out in favor of legalization of marijuana.


         Perhaps if you got past viewing conservatives through a singular filter, and painting them (us) with the broadest of brushes, it would be common-sense logical, instead of "interesting."   

      How about bringing up how the growth of the "war on drugs" was one of FDR's job programs under Harry Anslinger?  Hmmm...  That part doesn't get so much mention in The Emperor Wears No Clothes, does it? 

    Which are worse, Spinner, the Republicans who demonize drugs, and use them for distraction, or the Democrats who wink and nod and pretend when it is convenient, and then throw the peaceful freaks to the prison guard unions as a scrap of fresh raw meat?

    No partisan points to be had here.

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 7:03:23 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Hell, I'm a conservative. I'm for legal pot, legal prostitution, small military, small government, HUGE personal freedom. I fit quite nicely into several definitions of conservatism.
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou



First of all, I never mentioned the word conservative once in that entire story other than to note mild surprise at the legalization sentiment.  I told a true story...and spoke of those who believe that the government should be for the wealthy at the detriment of the good of the country as a whole. It is you who took that description and immediately put in the word "conservative".......it does remind me of another story....

In the days of the Soviet Union, a man was brought before a judge for defaming the communist party.
"But Judge!" the poor defendant cried, "I was not talking about the communist party. I was talking about the capitalists!"
"Don't lie to me!" the judge scolded him. "You were talking about stupid, greedy sons of bitches....we all know damn well who you were talking about!"

On a more serious note, if the conservative political structure really did move towards legalizing marijuana and prostitution, keeping a small military and a small government and advancing personal freedom, I would be very likely to consider becoming one myself.


< Message edited by SpinnerofTales -- 2/25/2009 7:11:40 PM >

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 7:11:03 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


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Marijuana and Hemp are two different subspeices of the same plant. Hemp has almost zero T.H.C. and Marijuana is cultivated primarily for the T.H.C.
But of course this will be argued, bla bla bla
Just legalize it, tax the marijuana and let hemp be used for its industrial purposes.


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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 7:11:54 PM   
MasterG2kTR


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Spinner,

If you think that is why marijuana is illegal you couldn't be more wrong. There is only one reason it is illegal and you alluded to it in your OP.
quote:

Also, because it is a weed, it can grow damn near anywhere with minimum fuss and muss from farmers.

It is this reason alone that it is not legal, because it can be grown by anyone almost anywhere, that means that the government can't control it and tax it. In contrast take a look at tobacco. It grows in limited areas and requires lots of maintenance to grow, and because of those limitations the gov can control and tax the shit out of it as they do now. Marijuana is illegal because is can't be controlled, but because they make it illegal they get their revenue out of it thru the courts in the way of civil fines.

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 7:22:39 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

Hell, I'm a conservative. I'm for legal pot, legal prostitution, small military, small government, HUGE personal freedom. I fit quite nicely into several definitions of conservatism.
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou



First of all, I never mentioned the word conservative once in that entire story other than to note mild surprise at the legalization sentiment. 


You mentioned it in the first paragraph and implied they are stupid to boot, but that's ok. It seems like most of your posts say the same thing. Keeping spinning those tales, I am sure someone will be ignorant enough to believe it.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 2/25/2009 7:23:09 PM >


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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 7:22:55 PM   
corysub


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A very interesting story on marijuana....never knew about the Hearst connection.  I have done a 180 on legalization and really think the time has come...the 'necessity" has come to legalize pot, tax it well, have very strict restrictions on where it can be smoked...designated pot driver...mandatory 10 years with no parole if selling to a child...etc etc...oh...and with high taxes.  Hemp is green so it fits in with the push for a "green" economy.  The following link might be helpful to anyone with conerns about next months mortgage payment:  http://www.marijuanabusinessnews.com/default.aspx

You know I can't refrain from commenting, however, on the jump from Hearst to calling everyone "men of vision who have ammassed great wealth, as being a danger to the republic.  No doubt, many are.amd ,not doubt many less fortunate financially challanged people are also anarchists...and hero's. .However, here is  no doubt, many of great wealth made fantastic contributions to the advancement of mankind through their generous philantrophy. Alfred Sloan, a founder of General Motors, funded one of the great cancer treatment facilities in the world in NYC, "Sloan-Kettering", conservative John D. MacArthur, one of the wealthiest men in America when he died in 1978, funded the John D. and Catherine MacArthur Foundation that supports human rights programs around the world, programs that, hopefully, might make for a more peaceful world someday;  the Ford Foundation, C.V Starr Foundation and countless others, all legacies of men of vision who created unimaginable wealth, and gave back to society. Most of us support one charity or another...but thankfully, men of vision were able to create such wealth that they changed lives, saved lives, and created "hope"..not with words but with charitable deeds.  Actually, our President was intimately involved in a foundation, The Woods Fund of Chicago from 1998 to 2001, along with a nice chap who liked to blow up buildings to make a point.

The "Foundation Directory" lists over 90,000 foundations and 1.5 million recent grants...not bad for a group of people...republican, democrat, liberal, conservative and bird watchers, all kinds of people with vision and money.  I wonder what impact a tax increase might have on the annual giving of high wage earners who might not have massive wealth?..but I digress.

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 7:32:35 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

he "Foundation Directory" lists over 90,000 foundations and 1.5 million recent grants...not bad for a group of people...republican, democrat, liberal, conservative and bird watchers, all kinds of people with vision and money. I wonder what impact a tax increase might have on the annual giving of high wage earners who might not have massive wealth?..but I digress.
quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub


The entire tale, though true, was told in a light hearted vein. I do not believe conservatives are monolithic evil. I do not believe that the liberals have all the answers. I do believe that a mid-ground between both needs to be reached and that right now, we have veered just a weeeeee bit to the right...but this particular post wasn't deep political thought....just a true story told with my own personal spin.


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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 7:52:19 PM   
slvemike4u


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Slightly tongue in cheek here,but do the current laws really serve to curtail private recreational use of weed.Speaking only from a personal standpoint I have never met an occasional toker who gave a rat's ass about what the law of the land said about him sparking up in his living room.
Conversely I am not so sure the large profiteers of the currently illegal industry have too much interest in it being legal.Hence...my interest in this common sense change in our laws....leaves me cold......gotta go twist a fat one now....talk to you all later.

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 8:19:40 PM   
TheHeretic


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      One big reason it stays illegal, of course, is the social stigma.  This, I find, is never helped by the inevitable legions of stoners insisting their personal conspiracy theory is the twuth...

    

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 8:27:50 PM   
came4U


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It is legal here to possess/carry up to ** oz of pot, if caught, they often let you off or you can get a fine but never an arrest or criminal record.

But, it is because of this legalization that the average corner store can sell bongs and pipes (yes, with cute lil pictures of maryjane leaves, cool hippies, Jamacian logos/sayings etc) at eye level on the counter beside the popeye ciggies and bubble gum.  These same corner stores cannot even sell booze.  Doesn't make sense to me.

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 8:34:08 PM   
Aylee


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Heretic, there is also all of those treaties and such that we have with other countries regarding the legality of pot. 



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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 8:45:00 PM   
TheHeretic


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      Very true, Aylee, and I don't think it will ever be a good plan to get toasty in Singapore, but those treaties initiated from our end.  We can make new treaties.  It would give Hillary something to do while President Obama delegates her authority to special envoys. 

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 8:53:56 PM   
Vendaval


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What I have found is that once someone knows another person who suffers from chronic pain and/or chemo & cancer they start realizing just how ridiculous it is to not legalize medical marijuana.

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 9:00:54 PM   
lusciouslips19


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Thanks Uncle Beavis!

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 9:10:53 PM   
Vendaval


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hee hee...

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 9:15:47 PM   
OneMoreWaste


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Hell, I'm a conservative. I'm for legal pot, legal prostitution, small military, small government, HUGE personal freedom. I fit quite nicely into several definitions of conservatism.


You sound more like a libertarian than a conservative.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
     How about bringing up how the growth of the "war on drugs" was one of FDR's job programs under Harry Anslinger?  Hmmm...  That part doesn't get so much mention in The Emperor Wears No Clothes, does it? 


Well, it wasn't until Nixon that we declared the "war" , and in modern times, it's Reagan and George I who are best known for using it as a mandate to whittle away civil rights. FDR certainly wasn't blameless, though, as he used Prohibition gangsters as an excuse to destroy the foundation of the 2nd Amendment.

If there's no big, vague boogeyman for the .gov to save us from, there's no "need" to give up our liberty for safety. So you gotta have a domestic boogeyman, along with your foreigners threatening "our very way of life", if you really want political power.

It's not just the corporate lobbyists we need to worry about, kids.


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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 9:17:45 PM   
Vendaval


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What I have always wanted to know is how do you have a "war" on any sort of social problem?  Isn't that like shadow boxing yourself?

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RE: Maijuana and Capitalism - 2/25/2009 10:11:29 PM   
slvemike4u


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Am i
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     One big reason it stays illegal, of course, is the social stigma.  This, I find, is never helped by the inevitable legions of stoners insisting their personal conspiracy theory is the twuth...

   
Am I reading this right,did Rich just imply I was a "stoner"...That is so cool!!!!
Of course since i just sparked up that big fatty.....I might be mistaken about the whole thing..

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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