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RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 11:37:04 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So you used a biased site... I found the article and saw where it was hosted.

What difference does the host site make? What matters is the source, which in this case happens to be the Hastings Constitutional Law Quarterly, published by the University of California Hastings College of the Law.
 
Is that who you're claiming is biased??
 
K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 341
RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 11:38:59 AM   
xBullx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
<delete long winded chest thumping and personal attacks>




So when the outside forces aren't open to wiping away (censoring) your opposition, you simply resort to the dismissal of another man's creative substance as chest thumping and long winded. You are at least predictable. 

I supported my position with personal substance and you seemingly found it too steep a challenge, though it is doubtful you'll admit as much. Your ego and character has been established long before our encounter here. I challenged your point, you are unable or unwilling to respond, not all that surprising though.

Your insecurities have exposed your character. But let's go over your rhetoric.

quote:



You seem to misunderstand realism with acceptance.



You're brand of realism you mean. I rather doubt that simply because you feel your idealism to be the truth we all see it as such.

quote:



If the US Army ever does move against the US population I won't be talking about how to resist them, I'll be out there doing it. I won't be toting a rifle to do it however.



Talk about chest thumping!!! So you plan to resist an ARMY (Armies are seldom impressed with diplomacy or political rhetoric) with nothing but your mouth? Interesting... Perhaps since I value your sense of history and your opposing perspective I might be inspired to rescue you from the gallows. But don't count on it; I'll be rather busy doing the fighting your position wouldn't man up too.

Concurrently the US Army would doubtfully ever willingly attack the US Citizenry without sufficient provocation. You know, like in a case where the Military is brought in to thwart civil unrest and the way right or way left loons actually attack them and promote angst. I assure you that if anyone actually did have a plan to "take over" they have consider this and I doubt that men speaking on a platform (I assume this is how you plan to stop the Army) are as much of an obstacle to the tyrannical plans of a corrupt CINC as the man that has quietly lived and prepared for anything.

I trust you realize what chest thumping actually is?  While you dismiss my perspective I clearly have found yours comedic. And rather than ignoring your comments I have spoken to them. However since you were politically wise enough to not be overly committal in your statements I am sure you have left yourself an out. You may execute it now.

quote:



You trot out Iraq and fail to get the salient point about the Iraqi insurgency, firearms have done those insurgents no good. It's not rifles or machine guns that are making things hard for the occupation forces. Whenever it has turned into a direct gun battle, Mosul for instance, the occupiers won and won decisively.



I made no such mention of Iraq. Come now, you're usually better with facts than this.

quote:



What has worked is harassment and IED's. Want to bet the guys planting IED's don't carry assault rifles while doing so? They want to be as inconspicuous as possible. The various resistance movements in Europe during WWII certainly resisted without widespread possesion or use of firearms. The loudmouth waving his weapon and shooting at occupation troops makes a good distraction but is otherwise a counterproductive tactic.




Ahhh, so now you do want to discuss military strategy and tactics. But you aren't going to equip yourself as completely as possible? I suppose that you believe that this insurgent that would plant an IED wouldn't have a rifle anywhere at all, no hand grenades, no RPG's, no captured materials?

IED’s are implements of harassment / guerilla warfare (this had simply better be a designed stage of your overall strategy or you doomed in a breath), you had better have a more extensive plan than to simply harass an Army into submission, I assure you that if push came to shove my rifle is simply a means to other means that will secure my desired end result. But back to your comments on stategy, a dog will eventually scratch all his fleas if give ample opportunity. And I assure you that simple harassemnt will not lead to mutually respected diplomacy. No bargian will ever be secured from a position of weakness.

And yes diplomacy or overall capitulation is the only way to the end game.


Well good luck with your American Insurgency, I hope you don't mind if it became necessary to do so, I went out to seek a bit more accomplished strategist and tactician to lead the rebellion.

By the way, you never addressed the reason I find it most important to maintain my arms supplies, survival supplies and such. But then survival preparedness is a point that is hard to combat, even with dismissive and or contorted logic.

< Message edited by xBullx -- 3/2/2009 11:49:41 AM >


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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 342
RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 11:41:26 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So you used a biased site... I found the article and saw where it was hosted.

What difference does the host site make? What matters is the source, which in this case happens to be the Hastings Constitutional Law Quarterly, published by the University of California Hastings College of the Law.
 
Is that who you're claiming is biased??
 
K.

Until I've had a chance to read the responses to the article in the journal I won't be able to tell. IME journal articles reproduced elsewhere are often draft versions since the journal holds copyright of the final version and I have no idea what changes exist between the two.

However the simple fact that it is used by a site like guncite make sit suspect until verified. Just as you argued repeatedly about liberal sources.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 343
RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 11:42:25 AM   
Archer


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Yes I chose to leave the site of the article hidden until later. The article stands or falls on it's own merits not based on the website that happens to have it posted. I found the article with a simple google and it just happed that the relevant article was on a biased site.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 344
RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 11:44:31 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Yes I chose to leave the site of the article hidden until later. The article stands or falls on it's own merits not based on the website that happens to have it posted. I found the article with a simple google and it just happed that the relevant article was on a biased site.

Sure, the fact that it would be so easy to put up endless quotes from righties attacking leftist sites to show hypocrisy in insisting on the validity of that site had no bearing.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 345
RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 11:50:24 AM   
Archer


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Well when you get through reviewing the Hastings Constitutional Law Quarterly get back to us with your arguments countering the idea that the right to keep and bear Arms (historicaly from longbow through muskets to rifles) is firmly rooted in English common law including the English Bill of Rights.




(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 346
RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 12:03:15 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

the simple fact that it is used by a site like guncite make sit suspect until verified.
Just as you argued repeatedly about liberal sources.
 
Where precisely might one find some of those arguments of this type that you claim I repeatedly post?
 
K.
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/2/2009 12:08:33 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 347
RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 12:05:14 PM   
Archer


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BTW while you're at it you might see the longer work she did on the same topic

http://www.amazon.com/Keep-Bear-Arms-Origins-Anglo-American/product-reviews/0674893077/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Here is one review of the book

From T. Markus Funk, "Is the Second Amendment Really Such a Riddle? Tracing the Historical "Origins of an Anglo-American Right" 39 Howard Law Journal 411 (1995):

Few topics of contemporary social, moral, and political debate can provoke as much raw emotion and open hostility as the Second Amendment, particularly in relation to the topic of gun prohibition. This subject routinely causes many well-intentioned people of whatever view to give up all pretense of courtesy and reason in favor of ad hominem attacks on those with whom they disagree. Readers of history professor Joyce Lee Malcolm's To Keep and Bear Arms: The Origins of an Anglo-American Right will find these ugly by-products of the contemporary conflict refreshingly absent. Malcolm clearly keeps her distance from any broad normative judgments about the social utilities or costs of civilian firearms possession, offering instead a sober, scholarly, historical discussion of the Amendment's origins. Meticulously tracing the British history of regulations on firearms ownership from the Middle Ages on, she provides a detailed and illuminating history that includes the English Bill of Rights and, a century later, the American one. Because it is only in this historical context that the Second Amendment's meaning can be fully understood and appreciated, Malcolm's book is essential reading for anyone interested in this complex and controversial subject.

< Message edited by Archer -- 3/2/2009 12:06:05 PM >

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 348
RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 12:21:37 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


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To none in particular..You bet your ass big brother wants our guns and will continue to force the issue.Its hard to control one with a 10 ga shotgun in their hands..this is why I always advise one to have a safe room, a safe house or better still convervet a cave as we have done to store those items that you want to hand on to..

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RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 12:24:21 PM   
sophia37


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Since it looks like this topic runs 16 pages, I'm not going to worry about ruffling feathers since no one will read this far! So, I'd like to say I strongly SUPPORT a ban on assault weapons. My only surprise with this topic is how hot everyone's gotten over it, starting from the first post.

How easy it is to rip apart a president that's been in office less than 100 days. Nice! If you're all strongly against this, and there seems to be many of you, then how bout you team up, write a petition, then find a government place to submit it. Then define and designate who the leader of your group will be based on the most persuasive argument builder amongst you. Then send this person on a mission with your collective assistance, to raise awareness and oppose right up to the last second, something you disagree with. Get out there and see what it takes to change a law!

Somehow I have the feeling that when push comes to shove all you resistance fighters here, will quickly fade into the woodwork when the hard work's about to begin. Bitch bitch bitch. Moan moan moan. You like to shoot off your mouths the way you like to shoot off your guns. Although I truly love and respect you folks on most days,..What a bunch of bores.

(in reply to BoiJen)
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RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 12:32:59 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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Now, when the 2nd A was written, did "arms" mean any arms that were available to any military force at the time?

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(in reply to sophia37)
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RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 12:39:03 PM   
theobserver


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Can't the revolution be fought with 38's, berettas, 45 magnum's and rifles ... I mean really, what do you people want?! Do you really need an ak-47 and grenade launcher to enact your overthrow of the goverment ... geez!

Some people!


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Profile   Post #: 352
RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 12:54:12 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MZaneGray9

You Yanks never cease to amaze!!
1. In a democracy you overthrow the government via the ballot box - remember?
2. If you have to resort to guns to overthrow the government don't consider yourself as living in a democracy.
3. The same can be said of the need to bear arms being based on such nonsense - the right to have and use firearms to chuck out the government.
4. NO sane person (and that necessarily excludes a huge number of drop-kick Americans) can justify your Second Amendment.
5. No SANE person in the US could fail to notice the appalling consequences that follow from the widespread possession of firearms - vide Taco, Texas.  Lunacy! AND, State-sponsored murder of innocents.
6. Sheesh !!! It really is very simple, children.


1) We're not a "democracy", we're a republic
2) So says England's bitch
3)It worked in 1776
4) Prove it
5)More people die due to negligence by medical "professionals" every day, than they do to firearms in the U.S. Shall we ban Doctors?
6) Don't you have an Aboriginie to supress?

(in reply to MZaneGray9)
Profile   Post #: 353
RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 1:10:12 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

Since it looks like this topic runs 16 pages, I'm not going to worry about ruffling feathers since no one will read this far! So, I'd like to say I strongly SUPPORT a ban on assault weapons. My only surprise with this topic is how hot everyone's gotten over it, starting from the first post.

How easy it is to rip apart a president that's been in office less than 100 days. Nice! If you're all strongly against this, and there seems to be many of you, then how bout you team up, write a petition, then find a government place to submit it. Then define and designate who the leader of your group will be based on the most persuasive argument builder amongst you. Then send this person on a mission with your collective assistance, to raise awareness and oppose right up to the last second, something you disagree with. Get out there and see what it takes to change a law!

Somehow I have the feeling that when push comes to shove all you resistance fighters here, will quickly fade into the woodwork when the hard work's about to begin. Bitch bitch bitch. Moan moan moan. You like to shoot off your mouths the way you like to shoot off your guns. Although I truly love and respect you folks on most days,..What a bunch of bores.


Again, I ask you to define "assault" weapons, if my AR 15 is never used to shoot at someone, why should it be called an "assault" rifle?

Why are 30 or 17 round magazines called "high capacity", when they come standard with the gun? Shouldn't they be called "standard capacity, and save the term for the real high capacity magazines, like the 100 rounders?

(in reply to sophia37)
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RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 2:31:47 PM   
ladynlord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

The founding fathers didn't toss out everything they had from England, they maintained much of British Common Law, just ask any lawyer what the basis of our legal system is.



Louisiana is the major exception being based on I believe French jurisprudence.




Lorr.....almost correct, a common mistake. Louisiana's legal system is based on the Napolianic Code, which was in fact brought over from France. The idea is that all laws were "codified" or written in an ordered and easily referenced fashion, rather than "jurispudence" which is the finding or holding of a judge or jury on a particular set of facts.

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RE: Remember when Obama said he wouldn't come after peo... - 3/2/2009 3:17:21 PM   
ladynlord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

Somehow I have the feeling that when push comes to shove all you resistance fighters here, will quickly fade into the woodwork when the hard work's about to begin. Bitch bitch bitch. Moan moan moan. You like to shoot off your mouths the way you like to shoot off your guns. Although I truly love and respect you folks on most days,..What a bunch of bores.
 

Please note  that the "bores" here are not trying to change a law.  Us "bores" are attempting to uphold the law.....it is called the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.  The "change" that you speak of is the attempt by the current government leaders to reinstitute an ineffective Assault Weapons Ban that has died and is no longer in force.

Now, the same Constitution has an Amendment called the First Amendment that allows you the freedom to sit at your computer and hurl insults. So while you cherish your right to open your mouth and let insults flow freely with protection from that First Amendment, please be at least intelligent enough to recognize that My "shooting off my mouth" enjoys the same protection as your opinions, ...as do my rights under the Second Amendment.

< Message edited by ladynlord -- 3/2/2009 3:20:52 PM >


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‘The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them.’

— Mark Twain

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(in reply to sophia37)
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