quote:

ORIGINAL: MZaneGray9

When are you drop-kick Yanks going to wake up to yourselves??
The WORLD financial crisis was caused by YOU.  It stemmed from rapacious GREED and that greed, unfettered and uncontrolled (you have no effective banking/financial regulations) has resulted in us ALL suffering.
To speak of your leading banking/investment figures having the experience and capability to lead the US out of its mess is a nonsense.  If any of these people had any talent (not to mention scruples/morality/responsibility AND character!), you and the rest of us wouldn't be in the fucking mess you have landed us all in now.
Oh, and another little observation about the US and your cocked up values.
I have a dear friend who lives in the US.  She is unemployed, single and lives on food stamps - your demeaning and patronising form of welfare..
I send her the money to pay her rent, pay her utilities and run her car - with the US/Australian Dollar exchanging at 62 cents! Your way.
If I didn't pay her rent she would be living in her car on the street - and freezing!!!
She has no health insurance and when sick CANNOT receive treatment from either doctors (who charge like woulded bulls) or so-called public hospitals.
I read of your Conservative (Republican AND Democratic) politicians claiming that to institute a proper welfare and public health system would be the "end of free-enterprise and lead the US to socialism". It makes me want to puke.  The same boofheads happily use TAXPAYERS' money to bail out their fat-cat mates who have rorted the banks, financial institutions and other commerecial enterprises (like GM/Ford) and socked away billions in salaries/bonuses before the shit hit the fan!  They are right, of course, that is not socialism - it is just plain fucking rorting and robbery!
Grow up, get a brain and some balls and try re-joining the real world.
The rest of us were pleased to se Obama win.  Anyone would be an improvement on the last TWO-TERM drongo you elected as your President.  Thank christ there is a two-term limit, otherwise you losers would have re-elected the bastard for another four years of chaos.
The US is in the shit because you put yourselves there.  Tragedy is, you have taken the rest of the world DOWN with you.
James A. Wilson (Mr) aka M Zane
Australia

quote:

With their source data being from the CBO
http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8885/EffectiveTaxRates.shtml

In 2004 it was 25.4% of all revenue from income taxes
In 2005 it was 27.6% of all revenue from income taxes

And it has been checked out by Factcheck.org as true contrary to your accusation that it is a lie.

quote:

When are you drop-kick Yanks going to wake up to yourselves??
The WORLD financial crisis was caused by YOU.  It stemmed from rapacious GREED and that greed, unfettered and uncontrolled (you have no effective banking/financial regulations) has resulted in us ALL suffering.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

When are you drop-kick Yanks going to wake up to yourselves??
The WORLD financial crisis was caused by YOU.  It stemmed from rapacious GREED and that greed, unfettered and uncontrolled (you have no effective banking/financial regulations) has resulted in us ALL suffering.

Mwahahahaha!  You ain't seen nothing yet, pardner.  We're going to burn this mother down!  You damn commies with your socialized medicine and welfare systems were getting way too uppity.  We had to remind all of you who this planet belongs to.  Now go outside and hoist the American flag up in your yard, or we may have to put a real hurting on you. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

When are you drop-kick Yanks going to wake up to yourselves??
The WORLD financial crisis was caused by YOU.  It stemmed from rapacious GREED and that greed, unfettered and uncontrolled (you have no effective banking/financial regulations) has resulted in us ALL suffering.

Mwahahahaha!  You ain't seen nothing yet, pardner.  We're going to burn this mother down!  You damn commies with your socialized medicine and welfare systems were getting way too uppity.  We had to remind all of you who this planet belongs to.  Now go outside and hoist the American flag up in your yard, or we may have to put a real hurting on you. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coldwarrior57

From the Gov.
the TOP 1 % of tax payers pay 30 % of the tax, yet they earn only 18 % of the total income.
its wrong to have a sliding tax scale.
EVERY one over 18 that has a job  or income should pay 10 of their income.
the gov should learn to live with in its means.

Got a link for that lie?

Lie????


http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/ff104.pdf

With their source data being from the CBO
http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8885/EffectiveTaxRates.shtml

In 2004 it was 25.4% of all revenue from income taxes
In 2005 it was 27.6% of all revenue from income taxes

And it has been checked out by Factcheck.org as true contrary to your accusation that it is a lie.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_percent_of_taxes_does_the_top.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Fact Check: GOP adrift on small business claim about taxes
WASHINGTON – Claims that President Barack Obama's tax plans are an assault on small business skirt the likelihood that most job-producing small businesses wouldn't feel that pinch at all.

If they're paying attention to their clients and product, they shouldn't.

Obama is proposing to raise taxes on households earning over $250,000 by increasing the rate on the top two tax brackets and limiting deductions, starting in 2011.

What he's actually proposing is to eliminate the tax reduction that occurred in the Bush administration when Bush lowered taxes on people...who in droves said "I don't need it...let's use it to keep America stable".

Republicans and other critics, knowing they will get little mileage from defending the rich, instead are casting the plan as a tax hit on people who run industrious little companies driving job growth.

Indeed.

That's not likely, according to one in-depth analysis, which found that more than 95 percent of small business owners would be off the hook.

In fact, 95% of those small businesses will be getting a tax cut.

Obama does not propose higher business taxes.

Au Contraire....he is in fact proposing a tax increase...but one which will garner taxes on the businesses who can most afford it (mine included).

quote:

What does all this have to do with anything....just that there is enough blame to go around, from greedy U.S. banks, Investment banks, to individuals and instituions around the world that threw risk mangement out the window in a greedy passion for yield.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: MZaneGray9

When are you drop-kick Yanks going to wake up to yourselves??
The WORLD financial crisis was caused by YOU.  It stemmed from rapacious GREED and that greed, unfettered and uncontrolled (you have no effective banking/financial regulations) has resulted in us ALL suffering.
To speak of your leading banking/investment figures having the experience and capability to lead the US out of its mess is a nonsense.  If any of these people had any talent (not to mention scruples/morality/responsibility AND character!), you and the rest of us wouldn't be in the fucking mess you have landed us all in now.
Oh, and another little observation about the US and your cocked up values.
I have a dear friend who lives in the US.  She is unemployed, single and lives on food stamps - your demeaning and patronising form of welfare..
I send her the money to pay her rent, pay her utilities and run her car - with the US/Australian Dollar exchanging at 62 cents! Your way.
If I didn't pay her rent she would be living in her car on the street - and freezing!!!
She has no health insurance and when sick CANNOT receive treatment from either doctors (who charge like woulded bulls) or so-called public hospitals.
I read of your Conservative (Republican AND Democratic) politicians claiming that to institute a proper welfare and public health system would be the "end of free-enterprise and lead the US to socialism". It makes me want to puke.  The same boofheads happily use TAXPAYERS' money to bail out their fat-cat mates who have rorted the banks, financial institutions and other commerecial enterprises (like GM/Ford) and socked away billions in salaries/bonuses before the shit hit the fan!  They are right, of course, that is not socialism - it is just plain fucking rorting and robbery!
Grow up, get a brain and some balls and try re-joining the real world.
The rest of us were pleased to se Obama win.  Anyone would be an improvement on the last TWO-TERM drongo you elected as your President.  Thank christ there is a two-term limit, otherwise you losers would have re-elected the bastard for another four years of chaos.
The US is in the shit because you put yourselves there.  Tragedy is, you have taken the rest of the world DOWN with you.
James A. Wilson (Mr) aka M Zane
Australia

Yeah? YEAH? Well Crocodile Dundee II and III were lousy movies! And Vegemite tastes like meat jelly!

There...I feel I have stood up for the USA and vindicated us.

quote:

dammit, Spinner, I just choked on my Mt Dew!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

The problem is that the problems we face today could be terminal.  We need experienced people like Bernake, Paulson, Rubin, and the heads of the biggest banks in the country who have learned lessons that cost their institutions a trillion dollars .. or more.  These guys may be greedy but they DO know something about banking...

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coldwarrior57

From the Gov.
the TOP 1 % of tax payers pay 30 % of the tax, yet they earn only 18 % of the total income.
its wrong to have a sliding tax scale.
EVERY one over 18 that has a job  or income should pay 10 of their income.
the gov should learn to live with in its means.

Got a link for that lie?

Lie????


http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/ff104.pdf

With their source data being from the CBO
http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8885/EffectiveTaxRates.shtml

In 2004 it was 25.4% of all revenue from income taxes
In 2005 it was 27.6% of all revenue from income taxes

And it has been checked out by Factcheck.org as true contrary to your accusation that it is a lie.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_percent_of_taxes_does_the_top.html

A very important fact that you're neglecting is all the income of the wealthy that isn't included in your "income" figures. The figures you cited are AGI, adjusted gross income. It doesn't include a lot of income that the rich are able to exclude from taxes via all kinds of tax shelters to which the middle-income, and especially low-income people have no access. And the income figure cited in the link you gave was higher than the 18% you stated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

[Well I hate to burst your bubble, but I really doubt your going to get many checks in the mail. If you want nice things, go out and earn the money yourself. No one owes you anything.

Boi is right, Avian....if you want nice things, you should go out and run a $50,000,000 ponzi scheme, create investment products that drive the economy into the toilet or work with the vice president so that when we we go to war you're given billions with no questions asked.

And yes, I know that I might, not without justification, be accused in this post of conservative poking, but it's just sooooo much fun sometimes.

quote:

Ahhhh....I have noticed that it is always the have nots, telling the haves they are wasting their money on large homes, boats, you name it, they want it, but think since they have not earned it, everyone else should not have it either.
ORIGINAL: housesub4you

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I'm not neglecting it at all the statement that was called a lie by owner69 was couched as top 1% of Income
The statement is true and holds up to fact checking with the CBO figures.
Tax shelters adjust the Adjusted Gross Income sure no argument, but we don't have any hard and fast data to show the income that is LEGALLY excluded from taxation. So you can't make that adjustment.
The central point is they paid about 30% of all dollars into the income tax system, considering that if the data included more taxable income they would have paid even a higher percent of the total dollars.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Fact Check: GOP adrift on small business claim about taxes
WASHINGTON – Claims that President Barack Obama's tax plans are an assault on small business skirt the likelihood that most job-producing small businesses wouldn't feel that pinch at all.

Obama is proposing to raise taxes on households earning over $250,000 by increasing the rate on the top two tax brackets and limiting deductions, starting in 2011.

Republicans and other critics, knowing they will get little mileage from defending the rich, instead are casting the plan as a tax hit on people who run industrious little companies driving job growth.

That's not likely, according to one in-depth analysis, which found that more than 95 percent of small business owners would be off the hook.

Obama does not propose higher business taxes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I'm not neglecting it at all the statement that was called a lie by owner69 was couched as top 1% of Income
The statement is true and holds up to fact checking with the CBO figures.
Tax shelters adjust the Adjusted Gross Income sure no argument, but we don't have any hard and fast data to show the income that is LEGALLY excluded from taxation. So you can't make that adjustment.
The central point is they paid about 30% of all dollars into the income tax system, considering that if the data included more taxable income they would have paid even a higher percent of the total dollars.

I just posted this on another thread, but I thought about what you said here and thought it was applicable.

Granted this is just one man's opinion, but he is one of the people affected by your statistics.



Warren Buffett and NBC's Tom Brokaw: The Complete Interview ...

Tom: You've talked about in your office, for example, you pay a much lower tax rate with all of your wealth than, say, a receptionist does.

Warren: That's exactly right, Tom. And I-- I think the only way to do it is with specifics, and-- and - and in our office, 15 people cooperated in a survey out of 18. I didn't make anybody do it. And my total taxes paid-- payroll taxes plus income tax-- and the payroll tax is an income tax. It's based on income.

Tom: Yeah.

Warren: Mine came to-- 17.7 percent. That-- that was the-- that was line 61 I think-- or, no, line 43-- is the percent of taxable income, plus payroll taxes, 17.7 percent. The average for the office was 32.9 percent. There wasn't anybody in the office from the receptionist on that paid as low a tax rate. And I have no tax planning. I don't have an-- I don't have a-- an accountant. I don't have tax shelters. I just follow what the U.S. Congress tells me to do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer


Again we have to define top 1% Income vs Top 1% wealth. The citation was about taxable regular income which is one measure.

Warren Buffet's numbers are correct in the overall sense but he is mixing in Capital Gains where the majority of his wealth comes from, with regular income. Since capital gains are made with the investment of post tax dollars, money that has already been taxed being made to grow. That increase of wealth from capital gains is a huge part of what runs the economy and as such it is treated differently than normal income.

You can debate the merits of treating income paid directly from your work with income produced through investment, but that is not the argument being made right now.