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When music was real - 2/27/2009 2:47:22 PM

GimpinDenial

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Remember that?

When you could go to a live concert of a band or artist, and they sounded just as awesome
as when you listened to them from an eight track/cassette/lp or just the radio?

When was it that music became acceptably...
crappy live?

I am not going to list a slew of names that these days sound good recorded, but like utter shit live....
because there are too many...

I miss the days when going to a concert was worth it, because the band/artists sounded better live..
and now, it's almost incoherent garbage or the amps out of sync with the other instruments...

Or, am I the only one that misses when music was about.......the music
instead of a mass drunken mosh pit with the intent of raping your wallets
just to be able to stand in the nosebleed section where you need binoculars to see if the band is the same band you bought tickets for

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 2:52:10 PM

Owner59

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8-track ?

Dating ourselves, aren`t we?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

There are tons and tons of great live acts and new bands out there.

They`re just not on the radio.IMO,that`s a good thing.

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 2:55:07 PM

BKSir

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Hey, the 8 track had awesome sound...except, you know, the whole changing in the middle of a song. And they weren't exactly the most portable of critters. That's why they went away and cassettes won the battle. ;)

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 2:55:42 PM

LaTigresse

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A great deal of the music I listen to sounds just as good live as it does recorded.

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 2:57:36 PM

subangi

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Oh yes, the eight track.... stuffing a pack of matches in it after it gets older to make the tape play. lol

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 3:08:51 PM

Owner59

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Here`s a band I follow.

They`ve toured Europe and Japan and do over 200 gigs a year,which means they`re never around to do local shows anymore.

They are the most awesome band to see live.

There`s hundreds of bands like them that don`t get much radio play,but who are great acts.

The netz is making it easier to get exposer and to learn about new music.

IMO.things are pretty good in the music world,just not the same as it was.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/27/2009 3:09:40 PM >

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 3:24:21 PM

Owner59

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Way Down Inside

Pretty trippy for a bluegrass band.

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 3:49:05 PM

Aileen1968

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I've seen a lot of bands in small venues who didn't charge an arm and a leg and they sounded fantastic.
Black Crowes were great at a Jersey shore bar.
Johnny Winter in one of those dinner show places. He sounded pretty fucking good.
Buddy Guy and Jonny Lang.
Going to see Papa Roach and Buck Cherry in a few weeks at a small venue.
All of these tickets were under $40.

I've also seen big bands in big stadiums and they sounded great too.
My favorite has probably been Pink Floyd in Giants Stadium.
Saw the Eagles there too.
I liked Greenday in Albany. Albany knows how to throw a nice little party.

I only go to concerts of bands whose music I like. I won't go to a concert just to go to a concert.
So when I go I don't actually mind paying whatever the tickets go for. (even though I bitched about the cost of the Allman Brothers tickets just a few weeks ago. I already wrote that off and won't let it bother me.)

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 4:12:05 PM

slaveboyforyou

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I haven't paid attention to popular music since the mid 90's. I haven't bought music in probably 10 years. It is a routine thing for me to ask, "Who's that?" when someone mentions a band or plays a CD. I do enjoy going to small shows, and to festivals. But I haven't gone to an actual concert in years. They are way too loud, too crowded, and I'm not paying $20 for a little, plastic cup of shitty beer and a hot dog.

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 4:24:41 PM

FullCircle

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It’s not that live music is worse now it's that real music can't compete with electronic purification thus any concert of a modern performer will undoubtedly be a disappointment when compared to recordings, if you seek pitch perfection buy a CD or get the grandma phone out.

I'm informed though that due to modern compression you miss the notes you can't hear but that have an effect on the notes you can hear. Tapes are better than CD's apparently. They purify it then they chop it up to speed up the download. It all now now now with the modern generation etc.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 2/27/2009 4:33:32 PM >

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 5:10:28 PM

Sir Daddy

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The criminal here is the music industry itself. While the record companies bitch and moan about pirating, and artists strive to find a way to make a buck in the digital age, the over-all goal has been a great success. Specific, the death of the phenomenon formally known as FANS. The fan is almost extinct...and it's by design. No one buys whole cds anymore. They download the track they like off iTunes or one of the many other online distributors. Because of this cherry-picking convenience, people never get a chance to develop the fan relationship with a band or artist.

If you're over 30, you might remember what being a real fan was like. I remember a time when if it said "Van Halen" on it, I bought it....because I knew it would be awesome. Because I had that fan relationship with the artist in question.

I digress... Actual "fans" are bad for the music business. A single band can only be productive. Too much investment and not enough payback in signing, promoting and selling the product of musical genius. Like any other business, it's a numbers game. Real musical genius doesn't pay as much as mediocrity. The record companies want something that's just catchy enoug to sell...and just lame enough to be forgotten next week when they shove the next artist dejour down the throats of the consumer public. They have established this pattern and can sustain it indefinitely, no small thanks to the digital age/internet.

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 6:20:02 PM

MasterG2kTR

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If you want to see some great live shows at reasonable price, go to Milwaukee from the end of June thru the sunday following july 4th (6-25 to 7-5...10 days total). The Event is Summerfest and it is the largest and longest running music festival in the US. Check the details in the link. Music for all genres. All ground stages are included in general admission (free to $15) and only the main stage events cost extra ($30 to $150) each day. The festival also includes many other activities and entertainment along with a multitude of ethnic foods and beverages. It all takes place at the Lake Michigan lakefront in Milwaukee at the Summfest festival grounds. This will be the 41st annual festival in 09.

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RE: When music was real - 2/27/2009 9:13:37 PM

MarsBonfire

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This is why I'm a little more careful about who I follow... so far, the only band that I follow that can't quite come up to it's recorded albums is Clannad (well, and their relation, Enya) But, Tori Amos? Perfect! Puddle of Mud? Okay! Evanesence? Pretty darn good! Weird Al? Aces!

I also listen to a lot of classical. And I've yet to meet a symphony that didn't do a perfectly wonderful job.

I think the OP is right though... there's a lot of shit music out there that just can't reproduce itself on stage... at least not without pulling milli vanilli tactics.

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RE: When music was real - 2/28/2009 7:48:56 AM

MistresseLotus

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The last concert I attended was in 1981.. Harry Chapin at the Blossom Music Center in Ohio.

I stopped listening when the music was no longer played on real instruments. Synthesizers and keyboards just aren't the same and they encourage a lack of skill.

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RE: When music was real - 2/28/2009 9:04:10 AM

Termyn8or

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Lotus, was that late enough that you heard the sequel to Taxi ? I think it an excellent piece, and fits so well. I have both Taxi and Sequel and would like to merge them into one file so they play consecutively except for one problem, Taxi is live and Sequel is studio. I don't even know if there is a live version of sequel.

More on topic, Taxi live sounded very good.

On to the OP, things have changed technology wise. I remember when recorded live music almost always sounded like crap. No highs no lows, worse than Bose. I have old Zepplin from the BBC and such which although the performance was great, the recording was poor. That's back when they used to mike the concerts. Now mostly it is a board mix and many of the effects applied in the studio can now be used live, but that is not the whole story. Going E to E like that they improved the sound quality drastically, and the mikes are only used to mix in crowd noise.

Some of the old Beatles, Zepplin and Pink Floyd recording were horrible live, but I doubt it sounded that bad if you were actually there. Part of that is due to what's called the Fletcher Munson curve, which basically means if it is loud enough it sounds better. Look it up on wiki if you don't know what it means, but I'll give a quickie, see the "loudness" button on a stereo ? the Fletcher Munson curve is why it's there. The human ear hears highs and lows better at higher volumes.

Then we got to the new way of doing things. In my youth I was VERY surprised at the quality of sound on albums such as Micheal Stanley Band - Stagepass, Bob Segar - Double live bullet, and others like Peter Frampton - Frampton Comes Alive. This is when they changed, and no matter how good the performance is, if the recording is poor it is hard to enjoy at least for me. Before that time I had an array of equalizers and other sound enhancement equipment and knew how to use it.

But then there is also the performance. Take Grand Funk. The song Inside Looking Out is not all that great in studio. On the Live album (IIRC) it also wasn't all that good, but on Caught In The Act it was great and the only version I like.

Also some of the Micheal Stanley Band for example, there are a couple of songs that are alot better on Stagepass, which incidentally I had to buy because for the life of me I couldn't download it. At least not on P2P. I refuse to pay for things for which I have already paid for, in many cases more than once.

Then there are pieces like Blue Oyster Cult - Cities on flame. The live version sounds great, if you have the equipment to apply anout 25Db of very low bass boost. Other than that it doesn't sound much different than the studio version.

I know how hard it is to make a decent recording miked of a live performance as I have done it. I recorded it initially on AFM hifi, which is better than a CD, but when it came time to dub it to cassette it had to be compressed. Back then there were no CD recorders. I did have some pretty good cassette decks, and my buddy had a pretty good eight track recorder. Yes I am quite dated. I learned alot, tweaking the bias, some decks ha Dolby HX which after it was invented became mandatory on any deck I would buy, it made a BIG difference. I am so dated that I can tell you from first hand experience that a non-metal ready cassette deck records better on a chrome tape than a metal ready deck. I won't bore you with the technical reason why, but it's true.

As years went by I got more and more into pure reproduction, the true spirit of high fidelity. Now I have no equalizer or anything of the sort.

T

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RE: When music was real - 2/28/2009 9:23:43 AM

ScooterTrash

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I can't count small bands, many of those never get the chance to record, although many would be just as good as their Famous counterparts given the opportunity.

Last famous artist Rock concert was Jethro Tull, Denver, 1973 I think. Sounded real then...well from what I recall....lol.
Last famous artist Country concert was Mel Tillus I think, Omaha, somewhere around 1978, 1979...was surprisingly great.
Last live comedian I saw was Bob Hope, Omaha, 1975 or so, that was a blast.

One thing I recall from all of these, is way too many people, outlay of way too much money (I actually won the Tillus tickets) and the vantage point you get is far from perfect. Since then I figured it made more sense to buy the recorded versions, albums, 8 track, cassette and now CDs. I still purchase the entire CD and don't download the single...there is always the occasional "gem" that is lurking on the "flipside" that never get's radio time.

Edited to add; I have seen/heard Duke Tumatoe and todays version of Skynard at a bike rally recently, but technically they weren't concerts, they were just part of the program.

< Message edited by ScooterTrash -- 2/28/2009 9:26:06 AM >

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RE: When music was real - 2/28/2009 9:32:33 AM

Lynnxz

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There's a pretty decent crowd of good rockabilly and punk bands in ATL, and the shows we go to are almost always better live. A good crowd makes all the difference.

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RE: When music was real - 2/28/2009 9:49:38 AM

lusciouslips19

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If you have great talent it doesnt matter where you play. Unfortunately the most talented dont get the play. One of my favorite artists who writes her own music but also kicks ass covering others hasnt got the play that others have got. She was the grand prize winner of star strearch in 1993. I watched and she was way freakier than I ever expected to see on that show. Being astar search winner wasnt cool like winning American idol. She also is amazing on the piano.She had one minor hit. But is popular in Europe.

I like turning people on to her cause she is too good to be kept a secret. Of course the play she did get was one of the lamer ones and they made her change the word "gun" for air play.
Beth Hart

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RE: When music was real - 2/28/2009 9:59:03 AM

slvemike4u

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I am old enough to remember the "good old days"....and young enough to remember them honestly,as far as concerts go improvements in monitors,speakers and soundboards have improved drastically the acoustic quality of performances today.Now whether or not who you go to see sucks or doesn't suck...I can't help with,music is far too subjective a taste for me to comment.
Lets not forget playing music live back in the "good old days"was such an enjoyable act that The Beatles quit rather than continue to try to play with that primitive equipment.Good old days as usual wern't so good.

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RE: When music was real - 2/28/2009 10:08:02 AM

slaveluci

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GimpinDenial

Remember that?

When you could go to a live concert of a band or artist, and they sounded just as awesome
as when you listened to them from an eight track/cassette/lp or just the radio?

When was it that music became acceptably...
crappy live?

I am not going to list a slew of names that these days sound good recorded, but like utter shit live....
because there are too many...

I miss the days when going to a concert was worth it, because the band/artists sounded better live..
and now, it's almost incoherent garbage or the amps out of sync with the other instruments...

Or, am I the only one that misses when music was about.......the music
instead of a mass drunken mosh pit with the intent of raping your wallets
just to be able to stand in the nosebleed section where you need binoculars to see if the band is the same band you bought tickets for

Yeah, I remember all that. A little over three weeks ago we went to see Chris Knight live and in person. He played for two hours and was excellent every minute of that time. We were less than 20 feet from him and sure didn't need binoculars to see. Before that we saw Reverend Horton Heat in a small venue where it was like them playing in our living room. We don't miss that here in Little Rock because we still get it. There's "Sticky Fingerz," "Revolution," "Vino's," "Juanita's," Whitewater Tavern," "The Village," etc. The live music scene is amazing here. It's cheap, it's intimate and it's wonderful. Big name acts such as Willie Nelson, Robert Earl Keen, Southern Culture on the Skids, Hayes Carll, Paul Thorn, Ray Wylie Hubbard, etc. have come around in recent memory. It's quite amazing. I'm still high from seeing Chris Knight

.....................luci

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