When hope and change turns into more of the same with Iraq ;)

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All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Polls and Other Random Stupidity >> When hope and change turns into more of the same with Iraq ;)

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When hope and change turns into more of the same with I... - 2/27/2009 10:31:03 PM

MasterShake69

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If liberals Obama supporters arent pissed about this...then they will never get angry at Obama.
And how different is Obama then Bush regarding Iraq???
Hope and change has turned into more of the same ;)

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/62987.html

Friday, February 27, 2009
In twist, GOP likes Obama's Iraq plan, Democrats don't
CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C. — President Barack Obama announced here Friday that he'll withdraw U.S. combat troops from Iraq by Aug. 31, 2010, but his plans to leave as many as 50,000 U.S. troops there through 2011 made many Democrats in Congress angry, while Republicans cheered. It was an ironic reception for a new commander-in-chief whose presidential campaign was built initially on his early opposition to the Iraq war and his promise to end it if elected. "I am deeply troubled by the suggestion that a force of 50,000 troops could remain in Iraq," said Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif. "This is unacceptable." "I question whether such a large force is needed to combat any al Qaida affiliates in Iraq or whether it will contribute to stability in the region," said Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis. "You cannot leave combat troops in a foreign country to conduct combat operations and call it the end of the war. You can't be in and out at the same time," said Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio. "We must bring a conclusion to this sorry chapter in American history." The Republican Obama defeated in November for the presidency, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, lauded the plan.

En route to Camp Lejeune, Obama called Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki and then former President George W. Bush to tell each personally about his timetable. The controversy centers on his decision to leave a force of between 35,000 and 50,000 U.S. troops to train, equip and advise Iraqi forces, help protect withdrawing forces and work on counterterrorism. They'd remain until Dec. 31, 2011, the date the Bush administration agreed to withdraw all troops under a pact with Iraq. That timetable too, could depend on conditions in Iraq and on the need for additional U.S. troops in Afghanistan, where the Taliban has made significant gains, and where national elections also are scheduled.

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RE: When hope and change turns into more of the same wi... - 2/27/2009 11:20:22 PM

Owner59

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Why should we be pissed again?

Because cons agree with President Obama?

That`s why?

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RE: When hope and change turns into more of the same wi... - 2/27/2009 11:28:46 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

If liberals Obama supporters arent pissed about this...then they will never get angry at Obama.
And how different is Obama then Bush regarding Iraq???
Hope and change has turned into more of the same ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

Actually, if he has both Republicans and Democrats in congress pissed off at him, it means he's doing something right.

3 years, 11 months at the least, Shake...stock up on the tums and valium...and if things work out like I hope, it's going to be 7/11 all the way, baby.....sleep well and pleasant dreams.

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RE: When hope and change turns into more of the same wi... - 2/27/2009 11:35:35 PM

NeedToUseYou

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The new boss same as the old boss.

Funny, the only thing I thought Obama would be better on would be Iraq, so much for that.

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RE: When hope and change turns into more of the same wi... - 2/27/2009 11:49:43 PM

MasterShake69

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actually i support Obama on this. His position is the exact same as Bushs regarding Iraq. :)
I just remember so many anti Iraqwar liberals angry at bush prior to the 2008 election. Now Obama is following in Bushs footsteps.

Also enjoy chas Freeman...Mr Obamas chairman of the National Intelligence Council.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/02/the_realist_chas_freeman.asp
his take on the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989

I find the dominant view in China about this very plausible, i.e. that the truly unforgivable mistake of the Chinese authorities was the failure to intervene on a timely basis to nip the demonstrations in the bud, rather than -- as would have been both wise and efficacious -- to intervene with force when all other measures had failed to restore domestic tranquility to Beijing and other major urban centers in China. In this optic, the Politburo's response to the mob scene at "Tian'anmen" stands as a monument to overly cautious behavior on the part of the leadership, not as an example of rash action.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

If liberals Obama supporters arent pissed about this...then they will never get angry at Obama.
And how different is Obama then Bush regarding Iraq???
Hope and change has turned into more of the same ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

Actually, if he has both Republicans and Democrats in congress pissed off at him, it means he's doing something right.

3 years, 11 months at the least, Shake...stock up on the tums and valium...and if things work out like I hope, it's going to be 7/11 all the way, baby.....sleep well and pleasant dreams.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)

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RE: When hope and change turns into more of the same wi... - 2/28/2009 3:19:11 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

actually i support Obama on this. His position is the exact same as Bushs regarding Iraq. :)
I just remember so many anti Iraqwar liberals angry at bush prior to the 2008 election. Now Obama is following in Bushs footsteps.

No, you are either forgetting the facts or trying to revise them.

Bush consistently refused to consider any schedule for removing the troops.

It wasn't until Maliki openly endorsed Obama's timetable for withdrawal that Bush backed down from his refusal to set any type of time line.

U.S., Iraq Agree To 'Time Horizon' - washingtonpost.com
The decision, reached during a videoconference Thursday between Bush and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, marks the culmination of a gradual but significant shift for the president, who has adamantly fought -- and even ridiculed -- efforts by congressional Democrats to impose what he described as artificial timetables for withdrawing U.S. forces.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 2/28/2009 3:45:32 AM >

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RE: When hope and change turns into more of the same wi... - 2/28/2009 4:49:41 AM

hejira92

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Can we move this type of thing to "Off Topic"? Then, when I want politics, hate and negativity, I know where to go.

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RE: When hope and change turns into more of the same wi... - 2/28/2009 5:02:23 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hejira92

Can we move this type of thing to "Off Topic"? Then, when I want politics, hate and negativity, I know where to go.

Hate and negativity?

No, I was disagreeing with him, as we do often.

It's called a political discussion.

There is nothing hateful or negative about it, as I'm sure he understands.

Sorry to offend your delicate feelings.

Maybe you should just avoid threads with an obvious political title if you don't want to hear politics.

Seem like a fair solution?

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RE: When hope and change turns into more of the same wi... - 2/28/2009 8:12:25 AM

MasterShake69

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What has been the major thing about giving a time table??? The conditions on the ground??? Correct??? ;) What is the key tidbit of info that makes what Obama doing the same as bush???"
That timetable too, could depend on conditions in Iraq"
So US troops can be there well past 2011. The time table democrats typically wanted was about a year in length. I think at one time Obama supported such a short time table.

Many of Obamas initial antiwar supporters would never have backed him if they knew this was going to be the outcome.

quote:

That timetable too, could depend on conditions in Iraq

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

actually i support Obama on this. His position is the exact same as Bushs regarding Iraq. :)
I just remember so many anti Iraqwar liberals angry at bush prior to the 2008 election. Now Obama is following in Bushs footsteps.

No, you are either forgetting the facts or trying to revise them.

Bush consistently refused to consider any schedule for removing the troops.

It wasn't until Maliki openly endorsed Obama's timetable for withdrawal that Bush backed down from his refusal to set any type of time line.

U.S., Iraq Agree To 'Time Horizon' - washingtonpost.com
The decision, reached during a videoconference Thursday between Bush and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, marks the culmination of a gradual but significant shift for the president, who has adamantly fought -- and even ridiculed -- efforts by congressional Democrats to impose what he described as artificial timetables for withdrawing U.S. forces.

< Message edited by MasterShake69 -- 2/28/2009 8:15:20 AM >

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RE: When hope and change turns into more of the same wi... - 3/1/2009 12:03:11 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

What has been the major thing about giving a time table??? The conditions on the ground??? Correct??? ;) What is the key tidbit of info that makes what Obama doing the same as bush???"
That timetable too, could depend on conditions in Iraq"

No, the key tidbit is Bush never agreed to a withdrawal and never set a time table until Obama proposed it in the campaign and Maliki endorsed it.

quote:

So US troops can be there well past 2011. The time table democrats typically wanted was about a year in length. I think at one time Obama supported such a short time table.

Many of Obamas initial antiwar supporters would never have backed him if they knew this was going to be the outcome.

Wrong again.

The time line he proposed, from the start, was 18 months. That would make the withdrawal date late July of 2011.

I think I can cut him 3 1/2 months slack.

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