Changing the Ages

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LadyPact -> Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 2:11:06 PM)
Below, I've posted something that I originally wrote on another thread. It's sort of lost in the quagmire on that thread, but hopefully, some folks will find interest in the discussion it might prompt. There is something that does interest Me though. It isn't really worthy of a thread of it's own, (someone changed My mind on that) but I'm curious about the different insights that might be had. It's only going to apply to those who are under 21 or partners with those in the 18-20 bracket, past or present. More and more, local BDSM communities have started up TNG groups. Still, a lot of kink groups are twenty one and over only. Of the four that I belong to, only one allows members at eighteen. The same is true of the club that I frequent most often. Only people twenty one and over are allowed. I realize that not everyone is interested in public play or in being involved in the kink community. However, if that is part of life that you enjoy, how have you dealt with this obstacle? If you have had a hand in starting new groups, or changing the rules of existing ones, I'd be interested in hearing your experience with that.

DesFIP -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 2:30:19 PM)
I've often wondered about this but have assumed that it is to circumvent any consumption of alcohol by those under 21. I am incorrect?

Andalusite -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 2:40:25 PM)
I am no longer in that age range. I participated in a TNG group for a while, and it is 18-35. The round table discussion format was very difficult for me to follow, so I stopped going after a few times, but I still participate in some TNG-oriented events. The last one I went to, a couple of weeks ago (I didn't do any formal play, just getting out into the community again) is a playparty for age 18-40. I personally first got involved in BDSM at age 20, but didn't get involved in the public Scene at all until I was 28. I prefer TNG or all age events to allow 18+ (since they don't involve alcohol, that isn't an issue). The two main BDSM-oriented groups in my area allow ages 19+ and 18+ respectively.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 3:46:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I've often wondered about this but have assumed that it is to circumvent any consumption of alcohol by those under 21. I am incorrect? Where I live, it's also to help prevent anyone under the legal age from viewing "sexually explicit acts or materials" -- including demos. I've thought about starting a TNG group (even though I'm technically too old to participate), but I had to put it on hold until I have more time to devote.

OneMoreWaste -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 4:13:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I've often wondered about this but have assumed that it is to circumvent any consumption of alcohol by those under 21. I am incorrect? Where I live, it's also to help prevent anyone under the legal age from viewing "sexually explicit acts or materials" -- including demos. That's the thing, though- if there is any jurisdiction that doesn't allow 18-year-olds to view sexually explicit acts, I certainly haven't heard of it. 18 is the age of majority and (maximum) age of consent for the U.S. So why do so many groups set a minimum age of 21, particularly when most organized D/s events are alcohol-free? [:-] When I was 19 I lied about my age to get into a BDSM convention that was 21+. I was fortunate that they didn't check IDs, since I'd driven 3 hours to get there. [&:]

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 4:35:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I've often wondered about this but have assumed that it is to circumvent any consumption of alcohol by those under 21. I am incorrect? Where I live, it's also to help prevent anyone under the legal age from viewing "sexually explicit acts or materials" -- including demos. That's the thing, though- if there is any jurisdiction that doesn't allow 18-year-olds to view sexually explicit acts, I certainly haven't heard of it. 18 is the age of majority and (maximum) age of consent for the U.S. So why do so many groups set a minimum age of 21, particularly when most organized D/s events are alcohol-free? [:-] When I was 19 I lied about my age to get into a BDSM convention that was 21+. I was fortunate that they didn't check IDs, since I'd driven 3 hours to get there. [&:] When I asked that same question, that's what I was told. The members who started the group felt more comfortable having a larger buffer zone on ages. They decided it was harder to fake being 21 than 18. I'm not sure why they thought so, but whatever. They do check IDs at every meeting, but it's not like getting a fake ID is all that difficult. Of course, the local BDSM group displays an incredible amount of ageism (along with other "isms" like racism and sexism) and, at 38, I was the youngest person in the room. I suspect it has more to do with ego stroking than reality. They're oh-so-much older, wiser, and more experienced than the youngins, you know.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 5:17:20 PM)
I allowed 18 yr olds into my groups... no alcohol, so no big deal! One private club was held in a venue that served alcohol, but it was a private group, so we let 18 yr olds in as well. The TNG group is not geographically close, but a big squad often comes to the club parties. Nice bunch, but they do stick to themselves... because all they know is each other, right? I am all for young folks having each OTHER to mess around with, but it's nice to have a mixture of all ages getting to know each other. I wonder what happens when you are too old for TNG or one half of a set gets too old? Do they relegate you to the Biddy Auxiliary? [:D]

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 5:19:11 PM)
frist off i am one for drama or causing other issues with local scene they could do what they want tons of ways to learn but as messing with people not of my age group i always find a big disapointment in people understanding what i have been through or have experinced in my life that is why age is not just a number but lifes way of saying grow up be something

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 5:29:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus I wonder what happens when you are too old for TNG or one half of a set gets too old? Do they relegate you to the Biddy Auxiliary? [:D] The way Black Rose and some other TNG groups handle it is -- if one partner is over 35 and the other is under, the one who is under 35 "sponsors" the older partner as a guest. When both are too old, they transition to the main group or another local group that allows those over 35. That's assuming they aren't part of both already.

BitaTruble -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 5:47:33 PM)
Anytime I have been involved in forming a group, the venue determined the restriction. When CK in Utah started, we held our meetings in a bar, so we had no choice but to restrict access to 21 and over. ~When I founded UPEX, we were able to get space at the GLBT center so could drop the age down to 18 and over. Other than that, there was no reason for us to restrict access to legal adults. Most of our membership for UPEX was on the younger side.. but then, we were much younger back then, too. lol

Vendaval -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/1/2009 9:01:54 PM)
One of the local groups here had a debate and a vote on changing from 21 and over to 19 and over. The 19 and over change was passed and a couple of people remained uncomfortable with it. 21 and over often has to do with liquor laws whether that is specific to a restaurant/bar or because of alcohol served at private homes. The group here chose 19 rather than 18 to avoid having anyone still in high school involved. The hosts for private parties set their own guest lists and that works as an incentive to be on your best behavior. (We had a few people who had been around a long time and caused major drama at parties but thought they still should be allowed to attend any private event.)

serenekitten -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/2/2009 12:25:14 PM)
I'll tell you that there was nothing more frustrating than waiting until I was 18 to start seriously poking around kink-friendly websites and communities -- only to come up against groups that STILL wouldn't let me participate because of my age. The only way I could deal with it was to keep looking for groups that weren't too far away and would accept 18+ members. I was in New York for college and couldn't find anything (too spread out and too many 21+ groups), but when I came home to Maine, I had plenty of options. Most of the groups meet in family-friendly restaurants and not bars, therefore I haven't run into the 21+ issue (except when my friends want to go to the local gay bar). I think most of the events I've gone to outside of the TNG group have had the "no alcohol" rule, for one reason or another. I've never been "carded" at any munches or events -- I guess it helps that people think I'm older than I am. For me, TNG has helped served as a stepping stone into the greater BDSM community. I have friends and connections outside of TNG, so if I choose to leave even before I "age-out" of the group, I'll have plenty of places to go.

Guilty1974 -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/2/2009 2:50:28 PM)
The TNG group I belong to is 18+ for parties, 16+ for forum and chat, so the issue doesn't really arise. The age of consent is 16 down here, though the minimum age for visiting sex parties and prostitution/porn is 18 and the drinking age 16 for beer and wine and such, 18 for stronger drinks.

CuriousOlive -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/2/2009 5:23:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: serenekitten I'll tell you that there was nothing more frustrating than waiting until I was 18 to start seriously poking around kink-friendly websites and communities -- only to come up against groups that STILL wouldn't let me participate because of my age. Oh, so totally agreed! That was probably the most frustrating thing I ran into, waiting since probably age, 14, to really start investigating, then finding out I'm still not old enough. I think TNG here is 19+, maybe, and I really should check it out more, but I'm pretty sure 19 is the age limit for any clubs. Maybe that's why TNG is the way it is though? So nobody in the group is excluded for certain events?

junecleaver -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/2/2009 10:01:11 PM)
I waited until I turned 21. I was invited to go by several people even though I was under 21, because they had gotten to know me via TNG parties. I'm sure I probably whined and ranted, but I personally did nothing to change it except complain. It was frustrating, but I understand their perspective and the perceived risks of accepting the under 21 crowd. It is as weird to play beside someone your mom's age as it is to play beside someone your daughter's age. But as long as I'm not playing beside my mom/daughter...I'll probably still be enjoying my scene and I wish the same for whoever else. The last group around here that changed its 21 rule probably did so around a year ago. I think it was due to some changes in leadership and the leadership decided to take a new vote. The group was founded in a bar which is why it placed the age restriction, but they have grown and no longer meet in a bar. So the new leadership felt the agre restriction was no longer need. So glad to have finally passed 21 and avoid all the trouble in the first place lol.

MoGa -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/3/2009 12:46:18 AM)
When B was 18 years old and I collared him, we had to wait until he was 21 to get into events. How did we handle it? We just didn't go. It was not a big issue for me at all. What did bother me more than anything else, was that he couldn't get into the bar I worked at. So on weekends when he would come to visit, he couldn't come and do karaoke with me. But we did have a place in Pooler where they never checked his ID, because of the fact that I was so much older than he was, they just assumed he was of legal drinking age. Neither one of us drank, so it was fun just to go to a bar and sing, without the worries of his being under 21. That is so vanilla, but that is the problem we ran up against. I am so happy that Geoff is 21! He took me to his TNG group in Ohio, and I enjoyed it. I didn't feel out of place being the oldest one there. They made me feel welcome, but then again, Geoff prolly told them to be nice to me! lol I did enjoy the different views, none of which I could really relate to, but nonetheless, I enjoyed hearing them. I guess I am from the old school..but enjoyed listening to what the younger generation is feeling about things that I had such trouble with when I was their ages. Back then, we didn't have the internet to gather information, so it seems so easy for them to gain knowledge. But I have to admit, that some of the idea's that they had regarding certain area's of wiitwd intrigued me. It was all good :) Nice thread LP <Hugs> Thanks for bringing it here. MoGa

submittous -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/3/2009 10:44:11 AM)
I know that many events have a minimum age of 21 because lawyers for the organizers or the hosting facility believe they will have less hassle from local law enforcement if everyone is over 21... I don't know if they are right or not but have been in the meerings where it was discussed and decided. Bill

LadyPact -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/3/2009 11:44:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MoGa Nice thread LP <Hugs> Thanks for bringing it here. MoGa You're welcome and thanks for the thanks. Folks, I really don't want to violate TOS with the thread, so we might want to keep the discussion to those ages of adults. I haven't been mod spanked by Eleven in a while and I'd like to keep it that way. LOL.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/3/2009 11:50:52 AM)
no say it is not so you have been spanked by eleven lol i get it all the time rofl any how I think it is alot more then just atty stuff i think it really is about maturity what people experince and will be comfortable with for example you do not invite mega death fans to a evening at the pops concert just a point of view now that i Think about it I think it is all about responsiblity older more younger not so much

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Changing the Ages (3/3/2009 12:39:15 PM)
One of my offspring, now of legal age and active as a fetish photographer and artist, as well as a body-mod artist, says that the TNG groups she's been around seem more geared to a different perspective on where things like this fit into life in general. It seems like her generation are much more willing to just say "hey, this is what I like, and I'm not ashamed of it." Her group is much more open and 'public' than most of the folks my age are comfortable being. What's interesting, though, is that I'm more comfortable with the folks her age, and their perspective on things, than that of many of my contemporaries, who are very concerned about keeping this aspect of themselves private and maintaining a distance between this aspect of themselves and the rest of their lives. She said that it is also, in part, so that folks her age who share this common aspect of their personality can meet one another, since much of the public representation in the more accessible groups are people in their 40s and up. She says that, for the folks who want to date other people interested in BDSM, going to the local events outside of TNG means not really having many people your own age to hang around with, so TNG is good for that if that's your focus (she's already in a committed household, so she's not looking for anyone else right now). She's never been really -secret- about her interests, and like most of the young adults who are relatively new adults, the ideas of BDSM have never really been 'secret' once she was old enough to start asking questions. She's of the generation that has pretty much always embraced their strangeness. If only I'd embraced my inner Ziggy Stardust as easily as shes' embraced her inner Dita Von Teese chuckles.

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