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RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/3/2009 5:36:59 PM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		I have wondered about this myself at times in reading the posts. Sometimes I 'assumed' that was part of Ds and where I questioned my own submissiveness. But i have found a peace in not needing a Knight to rescue me, but still looking for a long hair man riding butt naked on a horse:). I did need someone to assist me in my goals and have found that. I dont want to be saved, but I do enjoy being encouraged.

blessings
oceanwynds

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/3/2009 5:59:34 PM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline 		I've no intention of 'righting anyone'. If I wanted to force my view of the universe upon other people I'd be a cop, not a top.

I also think it's more than a little silly to suggest subs are looking for direction. All of the women I've been involved with have been steadily employed, prosperous, intelligent, driven, and have known exactly what they've wanted. They don't desire direction in the same way a damsel in distress does.

But why would anyone want to be in an intimate relationship with another person if they thought they did not have something to gain from it. A submissive woman teaches me and gives me direction just as I do for her.


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all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/3/2009 8:50:36 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

is there a fine line between Dominance and enablement? Do D's go into this with the superhero complex believing they alone can right a wayward submissive?


I don't believe there is a fine line.  To me that suggests that to be a dominant, one must always be just one step away from enabling.  While it may be true that many dominants feel the need to nurture and protect, and some take that farther than others... perhaps to an unhealthy degree, I believe those characteristics can be just as easily applied to many submissives.  And, of course, to many other people regardless of how they identify themselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
 
Do s's run here as a means to find that superhero that will provide them with all they need to change, gro, succedd where before they might not have been able to "on their own?


Again, while this could apply to any number of submissives, I suspect you'd find just as many who are perfectly capable of succeeding on their own, and prefer to do so.

All in all, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with individuals who choose to cater to to their "white knight" or "damsel in distress" tendencies... so long as they are mentally sound and self-aware of both their own limitations and the fallibility of investing too much of themselves into one personality characteristic.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/4/2009 12:04:17 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

I've been thinking about this for a few days now, and I think it was windchymes response to Davaneal that brought it to the forefront for discussion--
 
is there a fine line between Dominance and enablement? Do D's go into this with the superhero complex believing they alone can right a wayward submissive?
 
Do s's run here as a means to find that superhero that will provide them with all they need to change, gro, succedd where before they might not have been able to "on their own?

Is it a fine line?
 

It's a fine line....well now at leasr. When I first 'came out' as a hetero submissive I 'used' dominants in the same way as I had used men in general... that is to say I did feel as though I needed them to enable me, to empower me, to complete me, control me, direct me, and so on.
But that felt as though there was a deeper conflict within me because as I became more mature, and hence powerful as a woman outside of the bedroom in the world of work, and especially after I became a mother and ran a house, the role of a man changed for me.
I been through a transition recently that has felt like my entire understanding of domination has shifted. I now see my power as a submissive. It is my gifts, my capacicity for tolerance, endurance and submission that enables to dominant to, well be dominant.
Who enables who?
It has to be a two way process and it there to be an equality.
It's doomed to fail if one party or the other constantly feels either that they need the other in order to succeed.


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Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
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To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/4/2009 5:57:49 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
The concept of the white knight is one thing, but even in the fairy tales the knight only slays the dragon ONCE, he doesn't have to slay the same dragon over and over and over and over again!  King Sisyphus' punishment was to roll the stone uphill only to watch it roll down again, repeating it for all eternity...in other words, it was his hell.

Excellent point.  I'd never quite thought of it that way...................luci

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(in reply to eyesopened)
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RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/4/2009 7:09:47 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Enablers are those that support bad habits or behaviors.   So enablers can be on either side of the D/s coin.   In terms of people making changes in themselves or trying to change other people this is pretty common as well.

There is nothing wrong with this in reality, it all depends upon the nature of the relationship and what two people are or are not willing to do.  What two people are or not willing to accept or deal with as well.

Any time you get into a new relationship, change and acceptence is a bit of a dynamic issue between two people.  Everybody is not a 100% perfect fit for one another.

There's nothing wrong with a D/s relationship where one person wants to change somebody who is willing and wanting to be changed.   There's nothing wrong with two people simply enabling each other bad habits either.  They are the ones that have to live with or deal with one another.  The Opinions of "us from the outside world" really don't matter at all. 

So to all those people that want to change or be changed or not change at all or be enablers.  More power to you guys and screw popular public opinion.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/4/2009 7:13:38 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Another thing came to me as I was reading through this thread and thinking........

Sometimes I see the dominant party as the weaker one, with the submissive as the stronger enabler.

I think that there are an awful lot of really insecure, weak, individuals hiding behind a dominant facade. The submissives they attract are almost classic enablers. Allowing them the illusion of strength and dominance and "serving" by holding everything together and maintaining that illusion.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/4/2009 7:14:11 AM >

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/4/2009 11:04:25 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Another thing came to me as I was reading through this thread and thinking........

Sometimes I see the dominant party as the weaker one, with the submissive as the stronger enabler.

I think that there are an awful lot of really insecure, weak, individuals hiding behind a dominant facade. The submissives they attract are almost classic enablers. Allowing them the illusion of strength and dominance and "serving" by holding everything together and maintaining that illusion.


How very true in a lot of cases!  Of course the dominant in such an instance might placate his ego by declaring that he has "delegated" all those responsibilities to his sub.

However, that takes us back to the original question... where is the line drawn? 

The relationship that Firm and I have might be seen by some to be in a similar light to the above... I am a very capable and organized person, and I handle much of the daily grind in our lives. 

Firm would say that he most certainly didn't want a submissive that he needed to take control of on a great level... he wanted a partner who would work side-by-side with him toward his goals.  It makes Firm's life much easier in that he can turn over a lot of the detail work and routine decisions to me, and he can rest assured that I will do my best to support him and his ideas.

I certainly didn't want a dominant who wanted to control every aspect of my life and our world... I wanted a leader; someone to set the goals and steer the ship so that I could concentrate on what I do best... achieving.  While I am perfectly capable of making good decisions and managing on my own, it gives me great peace knowing that there is someone who is worthy of my trust, calling the shots.

I suppose I would say the line would be where either the dominant or submissive "needed" the other in order to maintain their position.  I don't need a dominant to give me direction or correct problems in my life... I do not and never have needed rescuing.  Firm doesn't need someone to handle the details of his life and keep him organized... and he doesn't need to rescue someone or guide someone in order to feel that he's in control.

I don't see that as co-dependence or enabling.  Our presence in each other's life is an enhancement, not a requirement.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/4/2009 11:08:35 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Treasure, what you've described I don't see as co-dependence or enabling either.

What I had in my mind was moreso, that less tangible quality. Hard to always describe but fairly easy to define in example.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/4/2009 4:30:47 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Do high sex drive enablers count?

(in reply to oceanwynds)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/5/2009 2:29:44 AM   
InTonguesslave


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline 		its a symbiosis of need isnt it. 

there have been a couple of threads about breaking down barriers - there are some D's who are very good at giving the support and guidance thats needed to do this, in fact its in their personality to help and be drawn to people who need help.  i dont see it as 'knight in shining armour' atall.  i see it as one human being drawn to another human being because they see something in each other that is enabling and has promise at the end.

theres little point sweeping down on a person if they dont want to be helped or cant be helped, that couldnt and wouldnt work.

i am not good at enabling myself effectively on my own.  on my own i am chaos and muddle.  that doesnt mean im weak or helpless, i have initiative and intelligence on my side.  but i dont have skill in seeing a clear path through detritus and i do need help with that.  but i am 'fixable' some people arent because theyre stuck in their own self perpetuating dogma. 

surely its more about guidance and direction - and when did it become derisive for a D to show the attributes of leadership and the ability to enable people to become the best that they can be for their D and for themselves.

i am willing to give Sir all that he asks for simply and purely because he is spending so much time helping me, guiding me and supporting me through things.  he is doing that to ensure that at some point in the future i wont be bogged down by chaos and detritus and my path will be clear for him, my family and my life generally.

if all he was here for was to fuck me, beat me and order me around we would have lasted precisely one second and no more than that.  partly because i need to be enabled and partly because i need to have faith in my enabler that he isnt just out for what he can get.

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aka lally


(in reply to daddysliloneds)
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RE: Dominant Or Enabler, Submissive or Enabled? - 3/6/2009 2:02:49 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		Master and i have a relationship similar to treasure and Firm by the sound of it! He is more than happy to let me do most of the organising simply because it's a skill i have honed to a high level over the years ... as He says, He was smart enough to pick someone with a good skill set, why would He be dumb enough not to use it! But it's not an enabling on my part of any perceived weaknesses in Him ... and where there's been a sense that it would be good for Him to experience something, i have respectfully suggested that He handle it. Case in point was buying (and now selling) this house ... i'd done all that stuff before, He hadn't. He felt a bit nervous about handling all the legal stuff and dealing with people. i could have enabled Him by saying "i'll do it all" and He might have let me too. But when We discussed it, i put it to Him that it would be a good idea for Him to experience this and to know He could handle it all (bear in mind He's a lot younger than me) ... and so He took it on. i think He surprised Himself that He was as sharp as He was through the process and it wasn't actually as scary as it first seemed.

In past vanilla life I have suffered what My Dad called "lame duck syndrome" in that I seemed to attract lame ducks, those who wanted to be mended! I've made serious efforts to avoid that in latter years. I don't think anyone comes into a relationship perfect for the other, there has to be growth and change on BOTH sides for the relationship to flourish. But I do want to start from a basically healthy foundation. However, I do need someone who is prepared to grow and change. I'm not saying I will change them ... I know I can't ... but they need to be prepared to do some introspection and accept some challenges to help them grow and change in ways desirable to them. That's where I've hit some walls, I've found those who say very earnestly that they WANT to change, but when it actually comes to putting in the hard yards to make that change a reality ... they fall by the wayside. I am more than willing to support, encourage, advise, monitor or just be there, whatever it takes, but they have to do the work. I've done My work, am STILL doing My work ... just expect them to do theirs. The latest fell at the first hurdle and it's frustrating! For Me, that's where the fine line is.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to InTonguesslave)
Profile   Post #: 32
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