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"We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 9:44:25 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		AIG which has already recieved over 150 Billion in Taxpayers dollars for its' bailout,  is now getting another 30 Billion in Taxpayers dollars.  The reason, their last quarters losses.   AIG which in the past after recieving bailout funds then spent the money on their Top Excutives, such as European Hunting Trips and long stays at expensive Hotels, all defended by the AIG.
 
AIG defends the need for the 30 billion as "We are too big to fail".  Meaning that if the company failed it would cause world wide econmic trouble.  I say let them fail.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090302/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_aig

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 10:29:45 AM   
jakelogan01


Posts: 71
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		aig is indeed too big to fail, it poses too much of a systemic risk. that's why instead of giving them money the treasury should be slicing it into smaller parts small enough to fail. and slicing the balls of the executives and regulators that allowed it to become the monster it is today

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 10:55:24 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		When in battle when I was younger, I said... the bigger they are, the harder they fall... but they do fall.  Some of the big one's learned a lesson the day they fell to a lil chick... I think some big guys need to learn a lesson and they might need to fail or fall.  It is just sad that other's who may need a lesson or two are handing out a lot of money that might be better spent with some smaller guys with less bad habits and attitudes that got them to the place they were at when they needed the extra money.

A fool with money that proves they are a fool, shouldn't be handed more money becasue someone views it that 'we all' need them.  I say give that money to people who have proven to be wise in business and not all thinking of their own pleasures and ego's.  Lack of experience may be balanced out in honor and ethic's and simple common sense.  I would rather someone less in the know of things be handling that much responsibilty, who has proven they are a worthy person with good business sense.  Instead... the ones that made it... and sunk it... are in charge of much of our lives.  Hang on tight folks.

I may have a simplistic view of things... but I don't know one single parent that could play dangerous like this and would do so.  We need some common sense.

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 11:45:09 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Fuck 'em!
What the hell is going on in Washington anyway?
The more "lobbyists" you pay off to be in your pocket the more Taxpayer money you get to steal?
*When* not if  AIG goes bankrupt there'll be plenty of competition to fill the void just like right now with stock brokerage firms, new ones are being started  to take over from Merril Lynch etc.
The market abhors a vacuum.
And yes, we would be much better off to let AIG go belly up and spend that money elsewhere or give it back to the Taxpayers to whom it belongs.
This isn't supposed to be about keeping wealthy people wealthy!

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 12:09:29 PM   
cjan


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Status: offline 		I hope that one of the lessons learned in this financial crisis is that "we" ( read U.S.A. ) cannot afford to let any corporate entity become "too big to fail". 

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 12:14:13 PM   
couldbemage


Posts: 112
Joined: 7/16/2008
Status: offline 		The cynic in me says it's always about keeping the wealthy wealthy.

Ownership class people are better than you. Right?

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 12:20:05 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		I think this quote from your link says it all.  Enough is enough.

It marked the fourth time the government has stepped in to help AIG.

By the way, since we're speaking of an insurance company, has anyone else  been seeing huge increases in their insurance rates lately?


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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 12:28:30 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


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quote:

rulemylife
By the way, since we're speaking of an insurance company, has anyone else  been seeing huge increases in their insurance rates lately?

Yes!   How phucked is it that we have to pay twice to keep the super irresponsible and super wealthy in place?!    I agree with the above person who sugested we slice them into smaller parts and let some of them fail.   I cannot believe the amount of arrogant bullshit phucking artists that managed this company, and most certainly cannot understand why we cannot fire all of the managers and CEOs, if in fact we cannot let the whole company fall on its face.   
In the meantime, why not throw away money at american companies and workers that produce something to insure in the first place, and than maybe AIG won't be entirely worthless.    M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMAAM1 -- 3/2/2009 12:29:36 PM >

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 12:58:09 PM   
jakelogan01


Posts: 71
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		the paradox is...one way or another...we are screwed. we all own aig in our 401ks

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 1:04:41 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Not all of us, too broad of a brush stroke there! Actually they should go ahead and push AIG into bankruptcy status, start seling off assets and see where they are at the end of the day (year). Then decide what has to be done.

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 1:30:49 PM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Will those of you who would like their nose cut off to spite their face please raise their right hand.

That's what we would do now if we let AIG go bankrupt.  The shareholders of AIG have already been wiped out..unless you feel that a loss of value from approximately $70-$80 a share to $0.45 a share is just a little correction.  More importantly, WE the taxpayers, now OWN 80% of AIG...so some here would rather see what investment we have in an essentially nationalized company go down the tube.

And while your at it...lets throw the 116,000 people that work around the world for this company out of a job...fuck em..right!  The fact that probably the over-all majority are some of the best in their industry, have never worked in sub-prime, CDO, MBS, CDS areas of the company..should mean very little..right!  Throw da bums out...all of them!!!  fuck em all...We want 'Change'...and don't worry...after we fire your asses we will give you food stamps, healthcare, and have your neightbor pay your mortgage. 


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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 1:40:11 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		cory, that sounds like socialism to me. I'm disappointed in you, dear.

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 2:05:35 PM   
StrangerThan


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Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1
Yes!   How phucked is it that we have to pay twice to keep the super irresponsible and super wealthy in place?!   


Exactly. Everything about bailouts is paying twice from cars, to homes, to insurance, to credit cards. Every business we bail out is one who owns debt from most people in one form or another, be it a mortgage, a car payment, an insurance premium, a credit card. Not only are you paying already, but now you're giving them money and going to pay for what you give them in taxes.

Never ceases to amaze me when people talk government this, government that. The government does nothing without and cannot exist without your money. Dollars that go into this clusterfuck, cane from you, and in many cases, will be paid back by you. We have tarp 1, stimulus and a couple  of trillion sitting around for tarp 2, and the markets are still tanking, the companies still failing.

I wonder how much of this money will go towards decorating someone's office or the next executive retreat.


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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 3:06:18 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with this statement and some of the other posts that say let AIG be separated and sold off to other businesses since their current methodology and managment are failing so spectacularly.


quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan
I hope that one of the lessons learned in this financial crisis is that "we" ( read U.S.A. ) cannot afford to let any corporate entity become "too big to fail". 


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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 3:24:07 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

cory, that sounds like socialism to me. I'm disappointed in you, dear.
[/quote

You are so right.  And we are on the way towards big government owning a lot more than AIG..citicorp...and soon, GM.  Lets just make it official.
I also think you have to think about people.  We took over the S&L's "temporarily" and returned them to the public market, merged them, or had an orderly disolution of the business.  I think we may have to do the same thing with the banking/insurance business.  We have to do what is necessary to protect the viability of the banking system or we are all lost.  I would not feel the same way about GM...GE..or any other "General". 

< Message edited by corysub -- 3/2/2009 3:28:09 PM >

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 3:48:42 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		*faints dead away*

I think temporary nationalization of banks, separating their "good" from "bad" assets and breaking them up so that no corporate entity gets to be "too big to fail" is the inevetable solution. Hell, it worked in Japan (after more than ten years of half measures in the 90's ) and in Sweden where the taxpayers actually made a profit after taking similar measures. I just thought that it would take a long time , bread lines and a lot of suffering before the American people and politicians would accept it as an inevitable solution.

Damn, cory, good for you ! If you can see the light, there's hope on the horizon. You're not just trying to get into my pants, are ya ?



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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 3:53:31 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan
You're not just trying to get into my pants, are ya ?


*muffled voice*: "He can't, I'm already in there. Did someone say "too big to fail"  ? Hmmmm... "

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 4:30:46 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

kittin quote:

He can't


He ?... Oy...you really know how to wilt one, kS...



< Message edited by cjan -- 3/2/2009 4:31:50 PM >

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 4:38:59 PM   
awmslave


Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline 		Obviously not "too big to fail" but "too big to be bailed out" (not enough public funds available).

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RE: "We are to big to fail" - 3/2/2009 4:45:19 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

I would not feel the same way about GM...GE..or any other "General".
quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub


Cory....I would think you would at least see that we need to keep an American automotive industry alive for military reasons if nothing else. Oh sure, we could buy a Toyota tank. It would get 43mpg...but you could blow it up with a bb gun.

Face it, folks, as much as we would all like to, letting the automakers go out of business would be a bad idea.

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