RE: Myths of submission

RE: Myths of submission (Full Version)

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kyraofMists -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 4:08:38 AM)
erin, I think that you summed it up rather nicely. I have been reading the posts also and I have to say that it is less heated than I thought it would be when I wrote it. I just got rather annoyed with myself when I realized that I was trying to be a perfectionist and in trying to be perfect, I was actually denying my Lord something that he values most highly, me! He wants the imperfect girl that he fell in love with who knows that value of managing emotions and controlling behaviors. He doesn’t want some ideal that is presented on a website, he wants me. Thanks for all the responses. Knight's kyra

KittenWithaTwist -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 4:56:26 AM)
One can be annoyed without having a pissy attitude. No matter how fully you desire an M/s relationship, it isn't perfect. It isn't going to be perfect. There are going to be times when you may feel annoyed or angry or frustrated or disgruntled. Feeling these emotions is not disrespectful to anyone. It simply means that you are a human, a primate, a living creature. Can you get rid of these emotions? I'm sure it's possible, but, honestly, I don't find it terribly desirable to remove the ability to be annoyed from my life. Even if the only thing that annoys me about my partner is the fact that he gets his beard trimmings stuck in the grout between the bathroom floor tiles, it's still a little annoyance that we live with. It reminds me that I'm not perfect, and he is not perfect, and together, we're happiest being ridiculous. Can you get rid of jealousy? Sure. Some people don't even respond to the concept. Can you rid yourself of the need to get bitchy? Sure, you can meditate, stay calm, remain balanced. But to get rid of the annoyances or perhaps to simply ignore them...to me seems it would raise the stress level of a seemingly happy situation. Not even the Dalai Lama goes through a day without life's little imperfections.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 8:08:35 AM)
quote: I myself find it very difficult to understand how anyone living with each other could say that there has never been a moment in time that the other person sharing their space has never even slightly irritated them. Gosh, doesn't he ever fart in bed or do anything unappealing? But they are right....just because I don't understand it...or just because it is not something that I have ever encountered in another couple....does not mean it does not exist. But....and this is a big but....it also does not mean that anyone of us has to feel paled by that example. erin, I didn't believe it either! If you knew me, you'd know that I am a VERY skeptical and un-trusting person. I enjoyed my privacy. I liked being alone, to work, to study, or just to go for a long jog or going to the gym. About a year ago, beth and I were talking about how I haven't played golf in quite a while. You should know that at one time in my life I played 3-4 times per week. That was on the east coast where weather was always an issue. Now I'm in southern California and every day is the perfect day for golf and yet my clubs sit in the garage collecting dust. I told beth I "blamed" her of this. Golf is a 4-5 hour commitment and if I had that much leisure time I wanted to spend it with her. Believe it or not, I spent the better part of the day considering that concept. Asking myself the question, was there any place or any experience that I wanted to do that I didn't want to be with beth to do it. I was disturbed that the answer was no. Disturbed because for the first time in my life, my personal happiness depended on being with someone else. As an only child, fiercely independent, it wasn't a feeling I ever experienced before. I wasn't sure I even liked it. But it was true. I also find it very weird that instead of ebbing over the years, it's gotten stronger. Maybe the rumors I'd heard from her friends that beth is a witch are true. There is a running joke between us, I tell beth I "almost" feel I can trust her now. I say to her that I can "almost" believe that she is sincere in her desire to serve, sincere in submitting to my desires without question or complaint, and sincere in love for all thinks kinky. In turn beth thanks me when I buy her some new outfit, or we go to some nice dinner, or I "indulge" her in some way. she tells me she hopes that; "someday I'll let her and she can do something 'nice' for me." Yeah I know - sappy romantic pap! Reading it - I agree! But it's truth. Are we not supposed to post about it? It's not meant to make others feel badly about their situation. We're sorry if it does. We sure as hell don't claim this is "the way". We describe only our "life" and our "style". Blemishes - sure. There are things I find annoying in myself. I just turned 50! I am no longer balding I'm bald. Worse yet the hair that's left is turning gray. And don't forget it's beth's fault I don't jog 4 miles anymore, so I've put on a few pounds! DAMN her! By the way erin, one of the reasons we got a dog was now we can blame him for the farts! beth has only one fault, she smokes. But she smoked when I met her. I could as her Master order her to stop. I even have a "Master Merc - 20 Step Stop Smoking" program that I wrote for her. But when we entered into our commitment I told her that was one "right" that she could keep. But she does need to ask permission and it's not always given. These are human failings. When a person becomes a slave or a Master it doesn't eliminate human failings. If any rules or requirement a couple established don't consider that, they will not be effective over time. beth says that her favorite part of the day is when she does her daily "devotional". No matter how outside influences try to distract her, she says the time she spends completing that ritual returns her focus. I asked beth if there was anytime that she had the thought; "Oh for chissakes get it yourself!" she said no and the look on her face told me it really was a thought incongruous with the person, the "slave", she had become. Sorry if that is perceived as a lie by some folks. I expect beth to be human. she expects me also to be human. It doesn't mean either of us need to be pissed off when the other is human. Get angry at the situation, get mad at the consequence. If something gets broken, misplaced, or damaged; get mad at the expense of replacing it. But get mad at the person? It's the only thing that can't be replaced. About a week before Xmas, beth was coming down the street and was hit by another car broadside doing at least 50 MPH. My first "human" reaction was to be pissed. I was pissed because we couldn't go to dinner like we planned. I was pissed because I just bought her the car four months ago. I was pissed because of all the insurance and monetary implications. But I was thankful that German engineering allowed beth and the other party to walk away from their totaled cars. That's all that mattered. Maybe it was a "Karmic" test. I was glad I passed. We can never understand how so many people come here and post on CM how many problems people have with their partners. We don't understand on two levels. Why they complain and ask what to do here, versus discuss it directly with the person; and why they are unhappy doing what claim represents their ideal "relationship". If it's just "venting", maybe it serves a purpose. But more often the poster is looking to change something about the other person in the relationship. It says to me, "I like you, but I want to change you into my image of ideal." I read that differently. I read it to say, "If I can manipulate you into my image of ideal, I may be willing to spend some time with you." Eventually people return to form. You'll feel resentment when they do. Eventually you can't help but get "pissy" when they do. Finally, why is it we trust and believe almost every "soap opera" type story of sadness, loss, disappointment, and failing; but a representation of "success" is challenged? Again, we aren't and don't want to be anyones "poster child". Nothing we've posted represents some "ideal" method cyber or other. What we have requires a commitment. It also requires acceptance, UNCONDITIONAL acceptance, of the other person's humanity. But instead of picking at it, instead of making it a cause to be "pissy", we make it endearing. It requires a mindset that first and foremost considers that unconditional acceptance commitment to each other and to the relationship. When there is a question about how to react to life's distractions consider how the response effects the relationship, not how it effects you. It requires unconditional trust to know that if there was a issue that caused either of us to be upset with the other, we would know it by direct communication and discussion. We wouldn't have to read a moody brooding face and ask; "what's wrong". We don't set ourselves up to fail. As always, I'll let beth speak for herself. But she has other assignments this morning and will have to get back to this later.

thetammyjo -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 8:49:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists You hear and read it all the time and I have even said it, “It makes me happy to please him”. As a slave in my relationship this is the case most of the time. However there are times when it doesn’t please me to do what he wants. There are times that I just want to ask him “what about what I want!!” In another post my Lord talked about things that a submissive does for their dominant that they are passionate, indifferent or tolerant of and that there needs to be a balance for the submissive to be fulfilled. Depending on my stress levels, I find that the things I am indifferent doing can become things I just tolerate. It is in these times that I end up beating up myself because if I was a “good slave” I wouldn’t get pissed off, annoyed, irritated or frustrated because it has to be what he wants and what I want doesn’t matter. You hear it all the time, but I have to say that it doesn’t always make me happy to do what he wants. In the big picture view of our relationship it does, but day to day, moment to moment, there are times it is just annoying as hell. I am human after-all. I am annoyed with myself for believing this very romantic notion of submission and I wonder if this myth is not just setting people up to fail. Do you agree that this is a myth and what other myths are there? I quoted the entire OP because I'm arriving so late to this thread and am only replying to her. There myths about both owners and slaves, dominants and submissives. I think you have indeed tackled one and it is one that Fox (and I to a lesser degree) deal with ourselves. I think its a matter of majority or overarching dynamics. Sort of like the question "are you happy?" -- moment to moment, day to day, sometimes even week to week, that may change but overall, in the majority of my life I am happy. Therefore I would say "I have a happy life". So to apply this go Ds, moment to moment I may not feel very dominant and in my mundane world its actually a struggle at times, and even with Fox there are just things that I can't control or things I don't want to control that may make me feel less dominant. But overall, the vast majority of the time, I feel very dominant and very much his owner. How Fox feels, well, as he points out, when would he have time with all the other things he does for me, for us and for himself to get on here and talk about things? I can only say that he treats me as I expect and gives me the authority I want 99% of the time so I'd say he is my slave, perhaps not the 'best slave' or what he preceives as good all the time (he does worry about that too, so you aren't alone kyraofMists). But then again, how many of us are as good as we could be or the "best" we can be at all times, or any time? I'm not going to claim this. I don't want what hubris can call down.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 11:36:11 AM)
quote: When I first responded, what I thought that Kyra was expressing is that submissives (especially those who are newer to this lifestyle) are painted this lovely picture of submission where they are going to find this knight in shining armor dominant who is going to finally understand them and make our lives into something right out of a fairy tale or romance novel with a twist. This image is perpetuated on sites like CastleRealm, message boards and by dominants who take advantage of naivety, etc., etc. It makes the existence sound dreamy and like it will be the answer to everything that has ever been wrong. It is a fluffy, over romantacized portrayal because it lacks one very essential component....real life. What then happens is that the submissive (especially the newer submissive) comes away with a very inaccurate depiction of what the reality of it will be like. Once she is in and living it, that reality hits her in the face. She finds herself struggling with those unsubmissive thoughts and emotions and then she begins to question herself and her submissiveness. She wonders if she is just a failure who is doing it all wrong because it just doesn't feel the way it was portrayed. this slave would agree with you that is the image and the experience that some folks have. this slave speaks up to dispel the myths, not to denigrate or elevate anyone. this slave's point of her previous posts was that not everyone has the same experience with their servitude. there might be some sort of a majority, but it bothers this slave when assumptions are made that everyone's experience is ultimately one of disillusion, insistance on self-gratification, difficulty obeying or orgasming, uncontrollable episodes of disrespect, urges to lie, cheat or steal, hidden feelings of anger or resentment, weight issues, childhood abuse issues, or the desire to whine "what about meeeeee" to one's Master and if every one of those things are somehow absent, you are a "myth", a "puple-painted elephant", in need of therapy or rescue or intervention...a robot, a drone, a liar, a doormat. it isn't just this post, but there have been quite a few this slave has seen that are along the same vein. quote: For the most part I think that there was a Yes behind the words of nearly everyone who has responded....with the exception of Mercandbeth. Gosh I do hope you guys understand what I mean by what I am about to say...for I am not in any way knocking what the two of you have....quite to the contrary actually. Now I have to say this....Mercandbeth are shining examples and we can all see the level and depth of their commitment and be awed by its' beauty. I myself find it very difficult to understand how anyone living with each other could say that there has never been a moment in time that the other person sharing their space has never even slightly irritated them. thank you for your kind words, this slave has indeed been blessed. this slave disagrees that what Kyra posted is a myth--it might be undesirable for her or her Master, or something she finds hard to imagine, but this slave merely sees false generalizations or projections of personal experience to "prove" an absolute, along with these: quote: We're not going to want to do what master wants all the time, the same way we don't want to go to work all the time (no matter how much we love our jobs) orig: NakedOnMYChain maybe YOU don't, but this slave does~her job ROCKS! sometimes this slave even gets up in the middle of the night, in the middle of a great dream to do it!!!! quote: when you are trying to do something…real life….and live it everyday….of course there are going to be moments when it is old, frustrating…even infuriating. orig: mistoferin not necessarily, or should this slave say not yet? this slave hasn't had any of those moments, but maybe that's becasue this slave is focused on being fully present, cherishing every moment with Master, every hair on his body, every sound, smell, word, fluid and direction that eminates from Him in the presence of His slave.mmmmmmm!!! quote: if you have to try to submit and succeed, that is more success than if it were effortless. orig:Sirandlittle1 an orgasm that takes 30 minutes of build-up is more gratifying than an orgasm that happens spontaneously? walking 30 miles to work shows more commitment than driving there? getting an A on the test without studying is less successfull than studying 14 hours to get the same A? submitting without thought to self is less of a success than agonizing over it and then submitting? this slave would say the experiences are DIFFERENT, only more or less subjectively, not universally. quote: You aren’t happy with every second of being a slave. orig:OrlandoDave au contraire~one might not be happy with every second of their existence in this life, but they can sure as heck be happy with their decision and service!! Semper Fi! quote: if you weren't frustrated once in awhile or have these feelings of your own you wouldn't be human orig:minxie again, why is frustration with one's chosen relationship or partner the measure of humanity? as Master suggested in His post, He was pissed about the car accident, but was He pissed AT HIS SLAVE or AT OUR RELATIONSHIP because He told His slave to meet Him? No. quote: that 24/7 Real Time (meaning living with the person) is a myth...in a full time 24/7 relationship, we are going to be like every other person on this earth. Up at times, perfect submissives at times and brats at times who have no desire to do anything for their Dominant... orig:Sunshine119 perhaps for you, this might be true, but this slave has never had the desire to act as a brat or serve only herself as long as she has been in service to Master, both of those things are repulsive to this slave. quote: On a day to day basis, we don't always feel up to submission/slavery...orig:truesub4u this slave disagrees with the "we" and the "you" that the above posters are referring to. this slave understands that there are specific issues behind the generalities or "myths" this slave quoted from the above posters that have led these folks to believe in these absolutes. this slave's experience has taught her that these (and other) generalities are just that--generalizations, and since this slave doesn't fit these descriptions, this slave was merely pointing out that denying the existence of such folks and their experiences, or labelling them negatively as mentally ill, something other than human or "doormat" is closed minded and unnecessary...it's just as bad as saying that if you DO get annoyed as hell or infuriated or frustrated at your Master you are somehow less than "real", or "true" or human, n'est-ce pas?

harmony3709 -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 2:17:48 PM)
quote: By: mistoferin When I first responded, what I thought that Kyra was expressing is that submissives (especially those who are newer to this lifestyle) are painted this lovely picture of submission where they are going to find this knight in shining armor dominant who is going to finally understand them and make our lives into something right out of a fairy tale or romance novel with a twist. This image is perpetuated on sites like CastleRealm, message boards and by dominants who take advantage of naivety, etc., etc. It makes the existence sound dreamy and like it will be the answer to everything that has ever been wrong. It is a fluffy, over romantacized portrayal because it lacks one very essential component....real life. What then happens is that the submissive (especially the newer submissive) comes away with a very inaccurate depiction of what the reality of it will be like. Once she is in and living it, that reality hits her in the face. She finds herself struggling with those unsubmissive thoughts and emotions and then she begins to question herself and her submissiveness. She wonders if she is just a failure who is doing it all wrong because it just doesn't feel the way it was portrayed. I agree with this completely, erin, and this was also my interpretation of the OP. I also appreciate your post and can relate completely, and definitely envy your three years of being able to be at home and be Mom and Slave full time. That I would definitely like to experience and may some day have the opportunity. All too often I see these discussions taking the turn of other hot topics (lifestyle OR vanilla) and they so often remind me of the "breast feeding versus bottle feeding" or "stay at home moms versus working moms" kind of topics. They are very personal choices and often give a great deal of thought and sometimes decisions made with anguish. It is hard not to get defensive about those choices, even if the other opinion was not intended to be offensive. I mean, geez, when I started my family in the mid 80's, those two examples I gave above could bring some normally passive, very sane, intelligent women close to blows! I think there ARE myths in submission -- as the OP initially suggested. I did not take the OP to imply that it was a myth that EVERY submissive felt the same as she did, but that SOME do and that the myth is: If you DO feel that way, you are somehow NOT a submissive. And kyra, I hope I did not paraphrase your words incorrectly and please forgive me if I did. What I think is cool is when people come to the boards and say -- you know, every once in a while, I feel like this -- does anyone else? And some people might say yes and some might say no. Not to over simplify here......but OFTEN (not always) that's all it is. Some will say yes. Some will say no. If you are the only one saying yes or the only one saying no -- that doesn't make you wrong. Well, unless you do something like eat tomatoes on ice cream or something -- now THAT'S just wrong. [;)] Blessed be, Harmony

justheather -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 2:30:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seaturtle50 A myth cannot set one up to fail, only ones own expectations (of myth or reality) can pre-wire them to fail. I find that in times of frustration and dealing with the minutia, the difficult reality, being tired, feeling selfish and just-not-wanting to, or being made aware of one of my dominant's shortcomings (yes, they have them!), that Our Myth is actually what sustains me and carries me through to the times when submission and service are not their own only reward....

veronicaofML -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 3:21:51 PM)
thank you for your kind words, this slave has indeed been blessed. beth ============== "I'd" say so! Merc seems to be a true gentleman...i got $20 says He's a real kick to be around.

justheather -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 3:45:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth if you DO get annoyed as hell or infuriated or frustrated at your Master... Emotional states are so relative. One person's mad-as-hell is another person's slightly-miffed-but-easily-distracted-by-chocolate anyway. I think it is a valid point that you make and it would behoove us all to consider it when choosing our language when posting. I also do not think the OP considered this when posting and therefore did not intend it to be interpreted as such. Thanks for the insight.

KnightofMists -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 7:26:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel I told you guys before that Mercnbeth were something. Yup they sure are... very amusing indeed

classykindasassy -> RE: Myths of submission (1/23/2006 10:56:43 PM)
Dear Kyra, It's ALL a myth that we choose to buy into or not. I hate that people have a concern about others judging whether or not they are a "real sub". Who are we to judge YOUR heart? Above all you are human, and from what I have seen, pretty real. Why SHOULDN'T it be about what you want sometimes? To me the essence of WIITWD is only so far removed from so-called vanilla relationship. One-sided arrangements in terms of needs met and being pleased and feeling honored...are doomed to die. To me the essence of the challenge of being a truly great dom or master is what he has to go through to overcome him/herself and his/her weak points as a loving dominant. The essence of what a sub goes through is learning what it is to serve with love in one's heart, in committed relationship. Love is a verb - and we do it even when we don't feel it...and it is this by definition. Just MHO.

passionfirenmo -> RE: Myths of submission (1/24/2006 6:12:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists You hear and read it all the time and I have even said it, “It makes me happy to please him”. As a slave in my relationship this is the case most of the time. However there are times when it doesn’t please me to do what he wants. There are times that I just want to ask him “what about what I want!!” In another post my Lord talked about things that a submissive does for their dominant that they are passionate, indifferent or tolerant of and that there needs to be a balance for the submissive to be fulfilled. Depending on my stress levels, I find that the things I am indifferent doing can become things I just tolerate. It is in these times that I end up beating up myself because if I was a “good slave” I wouldn’t get pissed off, annoyed, irritated or frustrated because it has to be what he wants and what I want doesn’t matter. You hear it all the time, but I have to say that it doesn’t always make me happy to do what he wants. In the big picture view of our relationship it does, but day to day, moment to moment, there are times it is just annoying as hell. I am human after-all. I am annoyed with myself for believing this very romantic notion of submission and I wonder if this myth is not just setting people up to fail. Do you agree that this is a myth and what other myths are there? Knight’s kyra *wonders if I am going to get flamed for not being a “real” submissive kyra,,You are human,,,We all feel this at times.... Go easy on yourself sister, passion

Rayne58 -> RE: Myths of submission (1/24/2006 4:50:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists You hear and read it all the time and I have even said it, “It makes me happy to please him”. As a slave in my relationship this is the case most of the time. However there are times when it doesn’t please me to do what he wants. There are times that I just want to ask him “what about what I want!!” In another post my Lord talked about things that a submissive does for their dominant that they are passionate, indifferent or tolerant of and that there needs to be a balance for the submissive to be fulfilled. Depending on my stress levels, I find that the things I am indifferent doing can become things I just tolerate. It is in these times that I end up beating up myself because if I was a “good slave” I wouldn’t get pissed off, annoyed, irritated or frustrated because it has to be what he wants and what I want doesn’t matter. You hear it all the time, but I have to say that it doesn’t always make me happy to do what he wants. In the big picture view of our relationship it does, but day to day, moment to moment, there are times it is just annoying as hell. I am human after-all. I am annoyed with myself for believing this very romantic notion of submission and I wonder if this myth is not just setting people up to fail. Do you agree that this is a myth and what other myths are there? Knight’s kyra wonders if I am going to get flamed for not being a “real” submissive Didn't you get your copy of the "Real Submissives' Manual" when you signed up for the job?? [;)][:D] Master claims to have a copy, along with the "True Master's Handbook". Funnily enough I've never seen them, they must be invisible![:D] Seriously though, there are times when I do wonder whether I am a "true" or "real" submissive. When Master is channel surfing and can't stay with one programme for more than five seconds, sometimes I just want to say "for god's sake watch something!" When I'm tired and it's time for yet another dialysis exchange and I have to get up in the middle of the night to do it. Knowing there are chores to be done and I just can't find the motivation to start them [8\|] However I have read His posts on other forums (He doesn't post here but reads occasionally). Apparently He is very satisfied and very happy with me. I am the one having the hard time trying to live up to other people's expectations* or what I have read about submission. Most of the time things are ok but now and again the little doubts will start to creep in......and that's when we talk and joke about it and it all goes away again [:)]

veronicaofML -> RE: Myths of submission (1/24/2006 4:58:11 PM)
Knight’s kyra *wonders if I am going to get flamed for not being a “real” submissive ========== THAT's alright!. "I" have been told "I" am not...a real submissive..and i keep saying hell no.........i am a slave..not a subbie.

kyraofMists -> RE: Myths of submission (1/24/2006 7:42:54 PM)
I appreciate the responses to this thread and I have enjoyed reading them. The discussion has been less heated than I thought, but I am not surprised by the dissension at all. I think in large part it is due to some misinterpretations and assumptions about my post. I think that there are some incorrect conclusion being drawn and that there are some concepts that are being confused that I wish to clarify. It is very common to confuse thoughts, emotions and behaviors. I attempt to be clear when I discuss these three things. I try hard not to label thoughts as emotions or assume which thoughts and emotions are driving behaviors. In my OP I stated a thought, “What about what I want”, and I stated emotions, frustration, annoyance and anger. I did not discuss or express my behaviors in relation to these thoughts and emotions. It would be inaccurate to assume that what I thought or felt automatically leads to negative behaviors. What I have learned over the years is to manage my emotions and thoughts and to control my behaviors. I have learned that it is detrimental to my well-being to attempt to suppress or eliminate my emotions. I have learned to express my thoughts and emotions in constructive ways. My Lord places a high value on maintaining appropriate behaviors no matter what your thoughts or emotions are. I am quite capable of behaving correctly even if I am annoyed, frustrated or angry. I can also maintain appropriate behaviors when I am excited, happy or overjoyed. It is all about knowing what is appropriate for any given situation. For instance, the other night I was ecstatic over something that I wished to share with my Lord. I waited until I could judge his stress level and then made the appropriate choice of behavior that he would expect and require. If he had come home from work overly stressed and tired, I would have chosen behaviors that would be soothing to him, rather than a playful behavior that would annoy him. Since he was not stressed or tired, I was extremely playful and animated in my conversation with him. If I was unsure of his frame of mind and what behavior was appropriate, I would have asked for clarification. What makes me a slave in my relationship is following my Lord’s authority which includes behaving in the manner that he expects. However, he does not require specific thoughts and feelings from his slaves. This is the myth that I questioned, that a person must think and feel a certain way to be a slave or submissive. Having the thoughts and feelings that I stated in the OP does not make a person narcissistic, whiny, pissy, disrespectful, rebellious or any other negative behavior. I could choose these behaviors, but instead I choose to behave constructively irregardless of my thoughts or emotions. It is my belief that emotions are not negative or positive. Emotions are just a part of life. How we express our emotions, i.e. behavior, can be either negative or positive. I have no desire to try and rid myself of emotions, since I do not find them to be destructive. It is the behaviors that we choose that can be destructive and not the emotions. I am a strong advocate of appropriate behaviors at the appropriate time. What is considered appropriate may vary from person to person. An example of this is the following situation that was presented in this thread: quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth I'll give you a real case example. I remember a few years back, calling from my office one day I asked beth to get some information from my home office. she picked up the phone, went to the office and got it. Only afterward when I asked "what were you doing?" did she tell me, "she was in the bath". I would not have made the request had I known, but the point was that the first thought that went through her mind was to obey, not to excuse or interject to tell me about her situation first. This behavior would not have been appropriate in the relationship with my Lord. Before acting on his immediate will, I am required to inform him when I am engaged in fulfilling an inherent responsibility or his standing orders. Therefore, I would have been corrected for the inappropriate behavior of assuming the priorities of his will since maintaining cleanliness is considered an inherent responsibility by him. He also gets great pleasure from knowing that I am taking care of his property. Even though a person has challenging thoughts or feelings it doesn’t preclude them from behaving appropriately in their relationship or in a situation. What is appropriate depends on the individuals involved. Knight's kyra **edited for grammer

veronicaofML -> RE: Myths of submission (1/24/2006 8:31:10 PM)
It's ALL a myth that we choose to buy into or not. I hate that people have a concern about others judging whether or not they are a "real sub". Who are we to judge YOUR heart? =========== unfortunately? far too many here feel THEY are god's gift.. i have been privileged enough to have a select few actually come here and allow me, MY say w/o telling me i aint human enough for them. to those i say thank you from my toes.! take care stay safe girl.

KnightofMists -> RE: Myths of submission (1/24/2006 9:06:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists This behavior would not have been appropriate in the relationship with my Lord. Before acting on his immediate will, I am required to inform him when I am engaged in fulfilling an inherent responsibility or his standing orders. Therefore, I would have been corrected for the inappropriate behavior of assuming the priorities of his will since maintaining cleanliness is considered an inherent responsibility by him. He also gets great pleasure from knowing that I am taking care of his property. Even though a person has challenging thoughts or feelings it doesn’t preclude them from behaving appropriately in their relationship or in a situation. What is appropriate depends on the individuals involved. I would only add to kyra's thought's in this particular point! As much as kyra has various feelings and thougths that both make it easy to behave appropriately or challenging to do so. She knows how she is to behave and does so. Her feelings and thoughts also do not preclude my ability to do what I wish or want. kyra is very accurate in expressing she would be corrected if she would of behaved in the manner in the example that was given. To follow thru on kyra making me aware that she was bathing when I required something of her. My decision might not of changed. It would very much be weighted on the priorites of my will. Do I want her to do X or do I want her to continue to do what she is doing that fulfills my will. I would also add that if kyra was engaged a pleasure that wasn't fulfilling an inhert responsibility or one of my standing orders, she would stop what she was doing and obey my will without hestiations. Both her and alandra understand that their feelings and thoughts do not make them more or less of a slave to me, it is their Obedience to my will! I also find their determination to overcome challenging thoughts and feelings while still being able to behave appropriately most rewarding and pleasing. Even more so than when the thoughts and feelings are less stressful to them.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Myths of submission (1/25/2006 7:46:11 AM)
kyra, first of all, thank you for posting your thoughts and clarifying your position. this slave feels that this thread is a good example of how some folks relationships work for THEM, and as this slave said previously--there are no absolutes. the only things our relationships have in common is that you obey your Lord and this slave obeys Master, we both happen to post here on this message board and ALL of us are human. there are several aspects of the relationship you have with your Lord that you have posted about on these boards that in the relationship this slave has with Master would be considered unacceptable and behaviors that would be considered displeasing. for instance, referring to him as "my"..this slave has no possessions and has no ownership of Master, therefore the words "my" or "mine" are inappropriate and stricken from this slave's vocabulary. quote: In my OP I stated a thought, “What about what I want”, and I stated emotions, frustration, annoyance and anger. I did not discuss or express my behaviors in relation to these thoughts and emotions. It would be inaccurate to assume that what I thought or felt automatically leads to negative behaviors...This is the myth that I questioned, that a person must think and feel a certain way to be a slave or submissive. .Having the thoughts and feelings that I stated in the OP does not make a person narcissistic, whiny, pissy, disrespectful, rebellious or any other negative behavior. I could choose these behaviors, but instead I choose to behave constructively irregardless of my thoughts or emotions. but you didn't stop there--you associated your annoyance at doing what pleases your Lord with being "human" quote: ...there are times it is just annoying as hell. I am human after-all. this slave disagreed and still does, wholeheartedly, that feeling annoyance(or any other emotion) toward your partner in your relationship equates being "human" and the absence of such thoughts or emotions is a "myth". to make the statement that a slave feels "annoyance" at times and thinks "what about what I want" is universally human and the absence of such thoughts or feelings is a "myth" is just as false as the "myth" or "romantic notion" you are trying to discount. quote: It is my belief that emotions are not negative or positive. Emotions are just a part of life. this slave believes emotions sow either harmony or dischord. It is this slave's belief that emotions can be manipulated and sometimes eliminated, by ones-self or by others we allow. quote: Before acting on his immediate will, I am required to inform him when I am engaged in fulfilling an inherent responsibility or his standing orders. Therefore, I would have been corrected for the inappropriate behavior of assuming the priorities of his will since maintaining cleanliness is considered an inherent responsibility by him. this slave is merely required to obey, not remind Him of orders He has given previously when an immediate situation demands action, therefore, no assumption by this slave or correction by Master was necessary, but as this slave stated previously, our relationship is more different than yours than it is the same, for that, this slave is glad--how boring it would be if we were ALL the same.

truesub4u -> RE: Myths of submission (1/25/2006 8:29:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: On a day to day basis, we don't always feel up to submission/slavery...orig:truesub4u this slave disagrees with the "we" and the "you" that the above posters are referring to. this slave understands that there are specific issues behind the generalities or "myths" this slave quoted from the above posters that have led these folks to believe in these absolutes. this slave's experience has taught her that these (and other) generalities are just that--generalizations, and since this slave doesn't fit these descriptions, this slave was merely pointing out that denying the existence of such folks and their experiences, or labelling them negatively as mentally ill, something other than human or "doormat" is closed minded and unnecessary...it's just as bad as saying that if you DO get annoyed as hell or infuriated or frustrated at your Master you are somehow less than "real", or "true" or human, n'est-ce pas? Ok not too sure where I came in here at. But I stated nothing about mental illness or doormats. I am one that believes I am human and if I get pist or annoyed with Master.. it DOES NOT make me less human. As far as my statement... "We" don't always feel like being submissive." Take the "we" as me and some I know. And not as "WE" as in me and you. Some times I have to laugh at the way people respond to other post on here when words such as "True" "Real" "We" "You" ... are used.... like it's a personal shot. I may not talk like some on here... I may not have the perfect speach down pact, I may not type the perfect response word for word so each individual on here doesn't feel like it's directed towards them alone. But really... I am human too.. and my words are not personal attacks ..... on way people think of themselves or not think of themselves.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Myths of submission (1/25/2006 9:15:06 AM)
I think what matters is that we all know that, no matter what we happen to feel at any time, no matter what we happen to do at any time, as long as we are behaving within the authority of our owners, then we're being good slaves. Sometimes priorities interfere with immediate orders. I doubt any dom would tell a slave that she behaved badly for not changing their baby's diaper instead of going to the store when he called randomly. M/s isn't about litany of rules and step by step regulations. It's a dynamic that flows through ANY life situation and a process of working through the steps. I agree that I often feel prickled with Merc and Beths post in that I get the impression they are somehow trying to convey a message of "supreme state of slavery." But since I know they aren't anything like a supreme state of slavery, it's really not a big deal.

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