RE: Acceptable Murder (Full Version)

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TNstepsout -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/5/2009 6:48:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RainydayNE

and i see that the question goes unanswered again =p
nobody will ever just say if they think women should abstain. =p of course they don't. but they think men should. =p
"hey i can do this and you can't! nyah nyah nyah!"
seems a bit childish to me. oh well. =p
another man who kills a pregnant woman will go to jail for killing two people, while women sit in a clinic and purposefully kill a "non-person" =p
life goes on. get over it yourself.


It's not a matter of whether women should abstain or not. It's simply a matter of who is in control if she gets pregnant. If he doesn't want to run the risk of creating a child, then he should abstain. Does it make it right? Maybe, maybe not, but regardless, that's reality.  We have to make decisions based on what is, not what we think should be.




UPSG -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/5/2009 7:08:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

The child didn't ask to be born: the parents both have to take responsibility, don't you agree?


And if this is truly about equality/inequality under the law, then why do men still have to pay child support in most states, even if they have equal visitation time with the child? 

Hmmmm, smells of that legislated equality which you were deriding in an earlier post, eh?


Firstly, I am not responsible for individual States' legislations regarding the matter, and neither am I familiar with them: I am new here. Secondly, visitation time has no incidence on child support (and neither should it: kids are not 'pay per view'). Thirdly, these posters who brought this ridiculous idea of 'Roe for men' argue that men should have a say in whether they should support their offsprings or not. Guess what? Let them not breed if they do not wish to support them!


Kittin, it was in my government class many semesters ago I learned that in the U.S. Roe vs Wade decision was based on the right to privacy. Currently, I'm taking a class on contract law, and that is to say contract law in the United States as it falls under common law. All of this revolves around precedent and judicial interpretation (at least at the state supreme court level and federal supreme court level).

What I am stating is I believe, it is simply rational when being cognitive of U.S. law and the value of precedent, that a Roe for Men can be argued. Simple, this is what lawyers do, this is the nature of precedents.



http://www.oyez.org/cases/1970-1979/1971/1971_70_18/  
quote:

Facts of the Case Roe, a Texas resident, sought to terminate her pregnancy by abortion. Texas law prohibited abortions except to save the pregnant woman's life. After granting certiorari, the Court heard arguments twice. The first time, Roe's attorney -- Sarah Weddington -- could not locate the constitutional hook of her argument for Justice Potter Stewart. Her opponent -- Jay Floyd -- misfired from the start. Weddington sharpened her constitutional argument in the second round. Her new opponent -- Robert Flowers -- came under strong questioning from Justices Potter Stewart and Thurgood Marshall.

Question Does the Constitution embrace a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy by abortion?

Conclusion The Court held that a woman's right to an abortion fell within the right to privacy (recognized in Griswold v. Connecticut) protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. The decision gave a woman total autonomy over the pregnancy during the first trimester and defined different levels of state interest for the second and third trimesters. As a result, the laws of 46 states were affected by the Court's ruling.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade#Dissents  
quote:

Associate Justices Byron R. White and William H. Rehnquist wrote emphatic dissenting opinions in this case. Justice White wrote:

I find nothing in the language or history of the Constitution to support the Court's judgment. The Court simply fashions and announces a new constitutional right for pregnant mothers and, with scarcely any reason or authority for its action, invests that right with sufficient substance to override most existing state abortion statutes. The upshot is that the people and the legislatures of the 50 States are constitutionally disentitled to weigh the relative importance of the continued existence and development of the fetus, on the one hand, against a spectrum of possible impacts on the mother, on the other hand. As an exercise of raw judicial power, the Court perhaps has authority to do what it does today; but, in my view, its judgment is an improvident and extravagant exercise of the power of judicial review that the Constitution extends to this Court.[2]  




camille65 -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/6/2009 5:25:42 PM)

This is the scenario I do not want to happen in my country.

Mid way through the article:
"That secrecy has a price. More than 200,000 women each year are treated in public hospitals for complications arising from illegal abortions, according to Health Ministry figures. Those who don't have the courage or the money to be treated take the pregnancy to term. Although the fertility rate has fallen considerably in Brazil (from 6.1 children in 1960 to about 2 today), 1 in 3 pregnancies is unwanted, according to Dr. Jefferson Drezett, head of the Hospital Perola Byington, Latin America's largest women's health clinic."




Lucylastic -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/6/2009 5:30:48 PM)

I wonder if the church excommunicated the father?
I know what I would like to do to him.





camille65 -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/6/2009 5:53:33 PM)

I had to go take a walk after reading that article. It made me feel ill to read that 'their' solution was a C-Section and I have to hush or I am going to bump against TOS.




Lucylastic -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/6/2009 5:58:54 PM)

give you a hug, it sickens me tooo..and im gonna hush now.
Lucy




Vendaval -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/6/2009 6:06:53 PM)

Lucy and camille, you both have mail.




DavanKael -> RE: Acceptable Murder (3/6/2009 6:35:09 PM)

Abortion. If you are a pro-choice person, is there a point where you view the process as murder or is it until birth, a choice?
****Wildly pro-choice; I resent the idea of being relegated to a walking incubator against my will.  It may be murder at any point.  I don't know.  I think it should be handled as promptly as a decision is made and that women who delay, particularly into late second and third trimesters, are insults to the sex as well as species, but I fear a slippery slope, thus would err on the side of the life that is already here.  And, no, I have no idea when 'life begins' but I amcomfortable with saying that my life comes first. 

Executions: Regardless of whether or not they deter criminals, do you think executing someone for the murder of another to be an acceptable form of punishment? If not, are there instances where it would be?
****Sure.  Someone does something egregious enough to me and/or mine to warrant it, I'd be willing to exact that outcome myself.  Somepeople really are surplus population.  And, while execution likely doesn't deter criminals, it surely will deter that criminal via removing the possibility. 

Right to die: How do you view right to die laws that exist for the terminally ill? Should it be a right in your view? Or do you believe that medical science has evolved to a point where one can die in peace without suffering? If you were the person making the decision, what would drive that process, fear? Economics? What?
****I think that the terminally ill should be able to opt out anytime they'd like.  Yes, it is a fundamental right, imo, and the law should support it.  One can choose to die in peace without suffering and still kill themselves; nice, hefty dose of morphine or the like.  I don't know that I'd have the courage to take myself out. 

Pulling the plug: One of the areas in which I've always found pro-lifers to be inconsistent in defending life is removing others from life support. Aside from Terri Shaivo (sp), it is a common practice done in hospitals every day that generates little if any uproar. But in a technical sense, it is taking the life of another person. A few months ago a story ran on the front page of Yahoo about a man who had been brain dead, or at least thought to be, for 17 years who suddenly woke and came back with most if not all of his mental faculties. If you were called upon to make that decision, do you feel it to be one that could haunt you?
****If I was called on to make that decision, it would likely be by someone close enough with which I'd had conversation enough to understand their wishes in advance.  Were I called upon it without said conversations, I would attempt to do what I believe the person would have wanted, to best honor them.  I don't know if it would haunt me but fear of my own thoughts is no reason to shirk a responsibility. 
  Davan




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